Why the police can't stop crime

Posted in the Vine Grove Forum

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Reason

Tuscaloosa, AL

#1 Oct 29, 2011
Common citizens habitually fault police with failure to prevent, fight, and solve crime. There is a perception that levels of crime are directly impacted by police activity, either positively or adversely. Here is the reality that the less well-educated public either cannot or will not acknowledge. The war on crime is not one that the police can win. The police can't even begin to effectively fight crime. Why? The greatest influences on crime: unemployment, age distribution of the population, moral education, freedom, civil liberties, personal ambition, family structure, social and economic opportunities, values, culture, ect, are beyond the control of the police. Let's say for the sake of argument that a person was to disregard all of the above factors on the prevalence of crime and claim that police should still be able to restrain the general public from committing crime by active enforcement. Consider this. In the US, there are approximately 1,000 civilians per 3-4 police officers. The ratios are worse in many cities and towns. Police officers simply cannot control human behavior on any effective scale with such odds. The methods that would be required to allow police to even begin to put a small dent in crime, would require a complete disregard of civil liberties, due process, equal protection, search and seizure, and the American notion of "innocent until proven guilty." Does this mean there should be no expectation that the police should actively work to fight crime? Absolutely not. Until society, morality, and culture degenerate to the point that a democratic form of government is no longer feasible (and history proves over and over again that such degeneration is inevitable), police forces throughout the US will continue to seek to stem the tide of crime will still maintaining the civil liberties Americans value so highly. But its a losing cause.
dr p

Cecilia, KY

#2 Oct 30, 2011
Reason wrote:
Common citizens habitually fault police with failure to prevent, fight, and solve crime. There is a perception that levels of crime are directly impacted by police activity, either positively or adversely. Here is the reality that the less well-educated public either cannot or will not acknowledge. The war on crime is not one that the police can win. The police can't even begin to effectively fight crime. Why? The greatest influences on crime: unemployment, age distribution of the population, moral education, freedom, civil liberties, personal ambition, family structure, social and economic opportunities, values, culture, ect, are beyond the control of the police. Let's say for the sake of argument that a person was to disregard all of the above factors on the prevalence of crime and claim that police should still be able to restrain the general public from committing crime by active enforcement. Consider this. In the US, there are approximately 1,000 civilians per 3-4 police officers. The ratios are worse in many cities and towns. Police officers simply cannot control human behavior on any effective scale with such odds. The methods that would be required to allow police to even begin to put a small dent in crime, would require a complete disregard of civil liberties, due process, equal protection, search and seizure, and the American notion of "innocent until proven guilty." Does this mean there should be no expectation that the police should actively work to fight crime? Absolutely not. Until society, morality, and culture degenerate to the point that a democratic form of government is no longer feasible (and history proves over and over again that such degeneration is inevitable), police forces throughout the US will continue to seek to stem the tide of crime will still maintaining the civil liberties Americans value so highly. But its a losing cause.
Dude, u really need to get a life...
hellyeah

Elizabethtown, KY

#3 Oct 30, 2011
Crime will no longer be in our city new sherrif in town,Jamie Land.
Fred

Louisville, KY

#4 Oct 30, 2011
Reason, your exactly right. I was in court a few weeks back and over heard some officers talking.They were talking about calls they had been too. One call was for a women screaming for help in the middle of the street. When they got there no one was around. When he asked the disparcher for more information, it came back that a passing motorist heard it but waited 45 minutes to call police cause they were not sure what to do. The other officer said the same thing about someone seeing someone climbing in the window of the house. Waited to call police until after they got home from shopping at Wal-Mart even thou they had a cell phone with them. Police got ther home had been broken into and computer stolen. The best was when they both said about having to go to calls because dog/cat pooping in the yard and the people were afraid to confront their neighbor because they didn't want them to get mad. Right so call the police to talk with them and see if the people won't be mad.
spartan

Louisville, KY

#5 Oct 30, 2011
dr p wrote:
<quoted text>Dude, u really need to get a life...
Twenty bucks says that's a girl,,,no older than twenty-two.
spartan

Louisville, KY

#6 Oct 30, 2011
I believe the mere existance of the law and it's men deter a great deal of crime as it is.How many of us just may handle some things differently if they wasn't there to keep us on our best behavior.All in all,I see one main pro,and one main con with doing away with the law.It will ease the earth's population tensions by allowing the fifty-percent that carry 'doomsday' lists to execute them on the other ninety-two.Which leads to the con.Eight percent of the worst crumbs the planet has to offer will be what's left to rebuild.Yeah,the police can't possibly prevent everything from happening,(that's too much an expectation from anyone really),and sometimes they create more problems in society than they cure.In my opinion though,the system we have is the fairest that any governing body can give,,,and still maintain some sort of order.
Reason

Vine Grove, KY

#7 Oct 30, 2011
"the system we have is the fairest that any governing body can give,,,and still maintain some sort of order." Well said Spartan. That's the bottom line. Whether our system ultimately succeeds or not, it's the best system we can muster.
spartan

Louisville, KY

#8 Oct 30, 2011
Reason wrote:
"the system we have is the fairest that any governing body can give,,,and still maintain some sort of order." Well said Spartan. That's the bottom line. Whether our system ultimately succeeds or not, it's the best system we can muster.
That was pretty cool of you to commend me like that immediately after me making an assessment of your gender and age.I hope you didn't take me wrong,though guessing is a game I like to play and often am wrong.You seem to be a very civil minded person with a strong personality.I commend that.Reason is hard to find anymore.Thanks,I appreciate your message.
Reason

United States

#9 Oct 30, 2011
Welllllll, if I took offense every time someone thought I was a 22 year old female...lol. Topix threads are full of people pathetically taking offense over perceived insults and disrespect. I prefer to see Topix as a chance to engage in occasionally enlightening, occasionally amusing, occasionally inappropriate, and always anonymous dialogue! Unless I'm grievously and maliciously insulted to my face, I take no notice!
witness

Elizabethtown, KY

#10 Oct 30, 2011
they can't stop crime in Elizabethtown because they are too busy committing them. Do you all know how aundry they really are. Check the record at the police station. See how many have been suspended for inappropriate behavior on the job whatever it may be.
TRUTH PERIOD

Washington, DC

#11 Oct 30, 2011
They cant stop crime because they have no preventive measures. They wait for somone to TELL them something and base a investigation from that point. They may after being TOLD something ,conduct a few interview and searches but....Lets be honest...after they are told something its either too late or its half truth or just out right lie. EPD has spent their entire career listening to drug addicts that are half informed or lieing to get out of their crime!!!You can not stop crime or get good evidence this way.Sometimes yea a rat will tell but you cant win or conduct every case this way. Plus you got Chris Shaw more worried about his career than the PEOPLE. PEOPLE OF ELIZABETHTOWN WAKE UP this is a LAWYERS game. Get as many people in system as possible to ensure all lawyers have jobs. They dont care about stopping crime.IF IT STOPPED WHAT WOULD THEY DO FOR A LIVING>>>HELLO...
Reason

United States

#12 Oct 30, 2011
Witness...your unsubstantiated accusations notwithstanding, you're missing the bigger picture. Even in police departments that are rife with corruption, (and EPD is not one of them by a long shot,) The underlying issues of crime remain beyond the effective reach of a small police force restrained by due process, search and seizure laws, and the rules of the court system. A society that seeks to maximize personal freedom is faced with the consequences of the use of that freedom. A corrupt, immoral, decadent society that is also free will manifest high levels of corruption, immorality, decadence, and crime. Ultimately, that abuse of freedom will lead to the loss of freedom.
Michael Bayne

Washington, DC

#13 Oct 30, 2011
Hello...if the prosecutor...who has the power....would conduct investigation or pressure cheif it would change.... another clueless mouth runner you obviously are unaware of the pecking order of things....the prosecutor ...head prosecutor also chooses to rely on their info for investigations.....you honestly believe he's clueless.....I'm not going to argue.with ignorance....
Reason

United States

#14 Oct 30, 2011
Truth-your statements about the nature of how police investigations are initiated are partially true. Police usually do initiate a criminal investigation on the basis of an initial complaint and testimony from a victim or witness. The great majority of a police officer's time is spent answering calls for service. This leaves little time for proactive or preventative policing. However, as I pointed out earlier, 3-4 police officer's per thousand in the general population could have only a nominal effect on crime prevention, even if they were to completely disregard the aforementioned due process and "rules of engagement." If it is any consolation to scapegoat police for the prevalence of crime, then feel free. The general public scapegoats the banks for the mortgage crisis, the government for unemployment, and the school system for the declining quality of education. The overall decline of society, culture, and the individual American is the true root cause for America's issues. Some find comfort in placing the bulk, if not all of the blame for our country's ills on systemic issues. It's a hollow comfort.
Michael Bayne

Washington, DC

#15 Oct 30, 2011
Your trying to justify their problems because of due process not their own stupidity and corruption....other cities are not this bad....they have to follow same due process.....they don't ...I'm talking as someone who has had cases overturned here in etown because they don't follow due process....it babbling comparing apples and oranges...evidence is not allowed because of these violations not because they were going by the book....like I said can't argue with ignorance...ARM yourself before battle ....
Anonymous

Elizabethtown, KY

#16 Oct 30, 2011
Reason wrote:
The general public scapegoats the banks for the mortgage crisis, the government for unemployment, and the school system for the declining quality of education.
In the same way Hitler is the scapegoat for the holocaust.
yep

Bardstown, KY

#17 Oct 30, 2011
gatewood for govenor.
Truth

Washington, DC

#18 Oct 30, 2011
The key to solving the problem first lies in finding root cause....chief prosecutor....you don't have to tell me about my correctness I've been under many investigations....many court cases...I've read many law books ....enough to overturn my own case from a fedral prison....iv seen first hand the.crooked rights violations that make it possible for criminals to avoid conviction.....you sure your staying on the topic .....you think if the.prosecutor would prosecute officer from police and officers in court that they would continue to be so unprofessional....hell no they wouldn't but he lacks the.back bone to do so
Reason

United States

#19 Oct 30, 2011
Bayne, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Elizabethtown has a fairly low crime rate relative to cities of comparable size. I can't address accusations of "stupidity" and "corruption" without specific evidence to support such ambiguous claims. I had no desire to start a thread on individual grievances with the police. If you had a case mishandled by the police or the prosecutor then you have my sympathy. I was speaking about law enforcement in general on a more existential plain.
Truth

Washington, DC

#20 Oct 30, 2011
If supreme court over turns case or judge throws out case or evidence ....because of rights violations...causing a criminal to go free ....which has happened here several times ...how come the person committing these violations are allowed to continue employment....they should be locked up .....it takes a strong prosecutor to do this....which we here in etown do not have.. if unprofessionalism is cause of anything in court on side of state.....its prosecutors fault...period.....especially if he allows the person responsible the chance to do it again....hello....

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