Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#1 Nov 14, 2012
of people that just don't get it...

http://tinyurl.com/bd9yxhq


Some of you may not like the source, but can you prove anything in the story wrong?

Facts are facts!
Joe Yule Jr

Lithia Springs, GA

#2 Nov 14, 2012
Good for Hostess. I think most business owners are cheering them on.
Common Sense

Douglasville, GA

#3 Nov 14, 2012
Bill in Dville wrote:
of people that just don't get it...
http://tinyurl.com/bd9yxhq
Some of you may not like the source, but can you prove anything in the story wrong?
Facts are facts!
Here's a sentence for you:

" Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn made it clear to the unions and to the media that he would flat-out close shut down any Hostess facilities that were no longer able to produce and deliver products because of union action."

Actually Hostess has been having troubles for quite some time due to mismanagement and market position. Research yourself if you'd like.

Unions didn't close the place down, bad management did - people deserve to get paid - if you can't pay people for labor you have a bad business model or cost structure.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#4 Nov 14, 2012
You union supporters just kill me. Unions make ridiculous demands and hold a company hostage until they get their way. Reasonable salary? Reasonable benefits? They would strike if the company was on its last leg. There was a time when Unions were essential. Now? Just bullying. Yet, another reason why manufacturers take their business overseas.
Joe Yule Jr

Lithia Springs, GA

#5 Nov 14, 2012
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a sentence for you:
" Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn made it clear to the unions and to the media that he would flat-out close shut down any Hostess facilities that were no longer able to produce and deliver products because of union action."
Actually Hostess has been having troubles for quite some time due to mismanagement and market position. Research yourself if you'd like.
Unions didn't close the place down, bad management did - people deserve to get paid - if you can't pay people for labor you have a bad business model or cost structure.
So you're management. The company is in the toilet due to gross negligence over the years. Stockholders are screaming at you. You decide to guide the company with a firm hand and try to negotiate your way back to profitability. You work the bankruptcy courts. You meet with bankers. You renegotiate anything that can be reduced to try and get the company back on track.

Unions didn't create their problem - not fully. But they were danged sure part of it. Hostess offered their employees a fair contract and they rejected it and elected to strike instead. Hostess have every right to send the Union packing. Which they did. And I for one am cheering them for it.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#6 Nov 14, 2012
Common Sense wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a sentence for you:
" Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn made it clear to the unions and to the media that he would flat-out close shut down any Hostess facilities that were no longer able to produce and deliver products because of union action."
Actually Hostess has been having troubles for quite some time due to mismanagement and market position. Research yourself if you'd like.
Unions didn't close the place down, bad management did - people deserve to get paid - if you can't pay people for labor you have a bad business model or cost structure.
Here's two sentences (and a question) for you:

You missed the point.

Get registered, I won't directly respond to unregistered posters. How many others have you been?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#7 Nov 14, 2012
Oh yeah, another one, do you believe the POTUSA saved GM or saved the UAW? Your answer will be very telling...

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#8 Nov 14, 2012
Joe Yule Jr wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're management. The company is in the toilet due to gross negligence over the years. Stockholders are screaming at you. You decide to guide the company with a firm hand and try to negotiate your way back to profitability. You work the bankruptcy courts. You meet with bankers. You renegotiate anything that can be reduced to try and get the company back on track.
Unions didn't create their problem - not fully. But they were danged sure part of it. Hostess offered their employees a fair contract and they rejected it and elected to strike instead. Hostess have every right to send the Union packing. Which they did. And I for one am cheering them for it.
Well, to be fair (believe it or not I try to look at things from both sides but my white collar experience tends to carry me one way...):

"Hostess offered their employees a fair contract and they rejected it and elected to strike instead."

Fair is a subjective term. The union may have thought it wasn't fair, even though the company thought it was.

I've been through many negotiations like this, neither side trusts or believes the other. It may be that what the union wanted just wasn't financially viable for the company, so the company said "we can't do it".

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#9 Nov 14, 2012
Joe Yule Jr wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're management. The company is in the toilet due to gross negligence over the years. Stockholders are screaming at you. You decide to guide the company with a firm hand and try to negotiate your way back to profitability. You work the bankruptcy courts. You meet with bankers. You renegotiate anything that can be reduced to try and get the company back on track.
...
Good point about the stockholders.

As I've said MANY times on this message board (and others) most people don't understand what fiduciary responsibility is and means, particularly for a public company.

I'm not going to rehash it here, let 'em look it up.
Joe Yule Jr

Lithia Springs, GA

#10 Nov 14, 2012
Bill in Dville wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, to be fair (believe it or not I try to look at things from both sides but my white collar experience tends to carry me one way...):
"Hostess offered their employees a fair contract and they rejected it and elected to strike instead."
Fair is a subjective term. The union may have thought it wasn't fair, even though the company thought it was.
I've been through many negotiations like this, neither side trusts or believes the other. It may be that what the union wanted just wasn't financially viable for the company, so the company said "we can't do it".
Oh, I am sure the union felt it was unfair. And, in their defense, how many times have we seen corporations cave at the negotiation table? It was probably a no brainer to them to hold out for more - figuring Hostess was bluffing. They called the bluff and lost.

We have wage laws in place. OSHA inspects for work place safety. The Feds mandate withholding for Medicare and SS. Soon we'll have government insurance to boot. Unions are a relic and, frankly, don't serve much of a purpose anymore beyond acting as a foil to big business lobbying in Congress.

And to answer your question to the other poster (thanks for breaking your rule to converse with this unregistered poster!) Obama saved both.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#11 Nov 14, 2012
Joe Yule Jr wrote:
<quoted text>
...
And to answer your question to the other poster (thanks for breaking your rule to converse with this unregistered poster!) Obama saved both.
We don't agree a lot, but you've been around awhile, Mickey, you're exempted (unless you're also posting as someone else)...

:)

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