an honest question or two

an honest question or two

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Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#1 Nov 14, 2012
Given the variety of posters on this site, I'd be interested in seeing the responses to this question, which I don't think has been addressed on this board before.

Gotta go finish my workout, so I won't see responses (if any) for an hour or two...

Prelude: Reagan (and his administration) got things turned around after Carter (and what happened under him) fairly quickly (I was just graduating from undergrad college and entering the work force, so my memory may not be perfect and my knowledge of "things" certainly wasn't what it is now), remember that Bush did not have control of the Senate and House for (look it up if you're interested), just as BO doesn't have the House right now (but does have the Senate)...

Note: Like the head coach of a sports team, I am of the opinion that the POTUSA gets too much credit or blame for what happens, but that's just my $0.02...

Questions:

When, if ever, will "it" stop being Bush's fault? Why?

When will the current POTUSA be responsible for his actions? Why?
Joe Yule Jr

Atlanta, GA

#2 Nov 14, 2012
Back in the day, I had my investment adviser recommend this hot new stock for me: Braniff. Don't worry, he said, I know what I'm doing. Just ride it out a bit, this company is going to be a steal.

After Braniff folded, I fired that adviser and hired a new one. His results were mediocre, at best, barely beating the average. But he did manage to get my portfolio back on its feet.

So, does that mean I should no longer blame the first adviser for the beating my portfolio took? Of course not. That will ALWAYS be his fault and, for that, he shall always be blamed. Yes, the second adviser's performance has been barely above par but there's no denying I'd be worth a lot more had I not taken the original bath.

The current POTUS is responsible for his actions now. But we have to temper that and objectively look at what he inherited. We will always be able to blame Bush for what he did. He owns that. No question. But W's failure as a President cannot be used us a crutch for Obama.

The difficulty is in objectively considering O's performance in light of where he started.
Joe Yule Jr

Atlanta, GA

#3 Nov 14, 2012
Or:

We have a fake Tiffany style lamp in our house that my son launched a wii remote at, shattering the lampshade. I collected all the pieces and worked over the weekend to gorilla glue all the glass back together again.

Whose fault is it that the lamp doesn't look as good as it did before the accident? Yes, it is my fault that I couldn't put it back together as good as new. But isn't it still my son's fault for breaking it in the first place?

“Liberals are closet raaacists!”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#4 Nov 14, 2012
When Obama took office,he knew the score. It's too easy for him to blame the previous president for his failures. He made ridiculous promises. RIDICULOUS. Therefore, HE is responsible for misleading the electorate and his failure to do what he promised. Obama won't hold himself responsible for ANY of his failures and his loyal supporters are all too happy to give him a pass.
IMO, everyone was/is so anxious for the first black president to be successful, that the facts of his failings are being ignored. Seriously, he had NOTHING to qualify him for the job. That is what I mean by it is astounding that he was ever elected in the first place.
Having Bush to blame has made Obama lackadaisical in regard to our problems. It's like an acrobat(Obama) working with a safety net. He can afford to take some crazy chances because if he falls, he has a safety net(Bush). As long as Obama is president, Bush will continue to be blamed and the Obamabots are totally on board with that.
Hogwash

Norcross, GA

#5 Nov 14, 2012
Synergy wrote:
When Obama took office,he knew the score. It's too easy for him to blame the previous president for his failures. He made ridiculous promises. RIDICULOUS. Therefore, HE is responsible for misleading the electorate and his failure to do what he promised. Obama won't hold himself responsible for ANY of his failures and his loyal supporters are all too happy to give him a pass.
IMO, everyone was/is so anxious for the first black president to be successful, that the facts of his failings are being ignored. Seriously, he had NOTHING to qualify him for the job. That is what I mean by it is astounding that he was ever elected in the first place.
Having Bush to blame has made Obama lackadaisical in regard to our problems. It's like an acrobat(Obama) working with a safety net. He can afford to take some crazy chances because if he falls, he has a safety net(Bush). As long as Obama is president, Bush will continue to be blamed and the Obamabots are totally on board with that.
You know what the answer to your rant here is. You KNOW. Your hatred of Obama is keeping you from being realistic and objective.
Hogwash

Norcross, GA

#6 Nov 14, 2012
Joe Yule Jr wrote:
Or:
We have a fake Tiffany style lamp in our house that my son launched a wii remote at, shattering the lampshade. I collected all the pieces and worked over the weekend to gorilla glue all the glass back together again.
Whose fault is it that the lamp doesn't look as good as it did before the accident? Yes, it is my fault that I couldn't put it back together as good as new. But isn't it still my son's fault for breaking it in the first place?
It's just that simple. It is.
Joe Yule Jr

Atlanta, GA

#7 Nov 14, 2012
Synergy wrote:
When Obama took office,he knew the score. It's too easy for him to blame the previous president for his failures. He made ridiculous promises. RIDICULOUS. Therefore, HE is responsible for misleading the electorate and his failure to do what he promised. Obama won't hold himself responsible for ANY of his failures and his loyal supporters are all too happy to give him a pass.
IMO, everyone was/is so anxious for the first black president to be successful, that the facts of his failings are being ignored. Seriously, he had NOTHING to qualify him for the job. That is what I mean by it is astounding that he was ever elected in the first place.
Having Bush to blame has made Obama lackadaisical in regard to our problems. It's like an acrobat(Obama) working with a safety net. He can afford to take some crazy chances because if he falls, he has a safety net(Bush). As long as Obama is president, Bush will continue to be blamed and the Obamabots are totally on board with that.
So W gets a pass while we stone Obama?

“Liberals are closet raaacists!”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#8 Nov 14, 2012
Hogwash wrote:
<quoted text>
You know what the answer to your rant here is. You KNOW. Your hatred of Obama is keeping you from being realistic and objective.
Typical liberal nonsense. That's okay. You think you did the right thing for yourself.
Adversely, your LOVE of Obama is keeping you from being realistic and objective. For example....Obama's dismal record. You have totally ignored that. I rest my case.

“Liberals are closet raaacists!”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#9 Nov 14, 2012
Joe Yule Jr wrote:
<quoted text>
So W gets a pass while we stone Obama?
Nope. Bush certainly didn't hand over a clean slate, but he most CERTAINLY didnt' hand over THIS mess. Go ahead and call yourself objective. You're not. Like you said, you'll blame Bush forever. That's right where Obama wants you. Congrats.

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#10 Nov 14, 2012
Most of you are going to be shocked at my statement.
The first thing is Bush was not a conservative. He was a middle of the road moderate.The Republican Party tried to sell Bush as a conservative and to the most part most people bought it.
The first time I had 2nd thoughts about him was when he was reading a book to a bunch of kids and was told about 9/11. He just sat there and didn't react. He didn't react like a leader.
I also had great reservations about him when he started the Iraq war. I was never convinced that it was necessary anymore than us going into Bosnia or Obama attacking Libya.
I remember Bush's last couple of weeks in office and he stood right there on live tv and said. "I didn't know the economy was that bad". Why that hasn't been rerun and shown over and over I don't know but that told me he was not the man to be the President of the United States. He was president and he was either lying or incompetent.
Bush did let things slip away and is the blame for the huge mess that this country got into. Congress did many things which hurt our housing market but Bush didn't make a speech like Reagan to the American people telling them what Congress was or wasn't doing. He never used his veto powers on bills that he should have. The buck stops at Bush's desk.
Obama ran his first election on what a bad job Bush did and how terrible the finances of the U.S. were in. He knew what he was getting into. This time on running for reelection Obama was saying that the economy was so much worse than he thought and that he needed at least 4 more years to pull us out of the slump.
Obama knew the score and so far he has failed to live up top his promises. He has had 4 years to prove himself. He has not succeeded and should also be held accountable for his lackluster job performance.
Bush's name may end up being used just as Herbert Hoovers in the history books.
Obama may fair no better in the future as no one knows if the media will protect him forever.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#11 Nov 14, 2012
Well, the questions have been kinda sorta answered...Thanks for the input.

BTW, Dave, how would you have wanted Bush to act when told about the 9/11 attacks? What would you have done?

I think I read somewhere that he didn't want to upset the kids he was with and the people that (apparently) were watching on TV?

Since: Jul 12

Lithia Springs, GA

#12 Nov 14, 2012
Bill in Dville wrote:
Well, the questions have been kinda sorta answered...Thanks for the input.
BTW, Dave, how would you have wanted Bush to act when told about the 9/11 attacks? What would you have done?
I think I read somewhere that he didn't want to upset the kids he was with and the people that (apparently) were watching on TV?
Yeah, I know that is what was said but he should have stopped reading the book and apologized and left immediately. He had no idea of what was really going on that time. He should have been right next to the suitcase with the codes to unleash our nuclear weapons if it were necessary. This could have been a prelude to an all out attack by some foreign country on us. I would have just gotten up and attended to my duties as the leader of the free world. The survival of our country could have been at stake. Upsetting a few kids are not a high priority in a time such as this. I think it was pretty clear that Chenney was calling the shots at that time as Bush was not leading as he should have been.

Since: Jul 07

Douglasville

#13 Nov 15, 2012
I think I had the same reaction Bush did, I was afraid that maybe the pilot had a heartattack, without seeing the attack we were unaware the situation. He did not want to over react. Beieve me I don't want to be taken as a Bush suppoter but in this instance I believe he did ok.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#14 Nov 15, 2012
Well this may be a different way of look at things, but I don’t blame Bush or Obama for the economy. I blame Bush and Obama for the debt this country is in. I blame Bush for the wars he put on a credit card especially Iraq. I blame the entire government for the bail outs. I blame Obama for Obama care that is going to put us in further debt. I don’t blame them for people personal choices.

I don’t see how we can blame anyone in government for people personal choices. You can blame the government for bailing them out, but you can’t blame them for what cause it. The people to blame for the failure of Wall Street are the people on Wall Street. Bush didn't make AIG sell derivatives they couldn't pay when and if they came due. The people on Wall Street knew the bottom was going to fall out. Wasn't this all revealed during the congressional hearing? They have letters, emails, and memo with Wall Street executive joking about it.

The 1st round of people who lost their houses wasn't because of the economy or the loss of a job. It was because they couldn't afford the house in the 1st place. How can I blame Bush for that? The American auto industry hasn't been competitive for years now. How can I blame Obama for that?

I hold the government accountable for bailing people out and saving them from their own bad decisions. I can’t blame government for the people making the bad decisions in the 1st place.

Since: Jul 12

Douglasville, GA

#15 Nov 15, 2012
Mugsy wrote:
I think I had the same reaction Bush did, I was afraid that maybe the pilot had a heartattack, without seeing the attack we were unaware the situation. He did not want to over react. Beieve me I don't want to be taken as a Bush suppoter but in this instance I believe he did ok.
Each of us probably have a different way of looking at the situation. I look at the situation as him being told that we were probably under possible attack. He may not know exactly what was really happening, I don't know. Then he should have rushed out to find out what was happening. In modern times the president can't waste even a second of time as every second may be vital to the security of this country. If ICBM"s were launched from Russia we would have only about 12 minutes of warning. If missiles were launched from submarines off our coast we may only have several minutes to no warning at all. It is much better for the president to be overly cautious by getting in contact with NORAD, and his top military commanders and be close to the nuclear code suitcase in such a situation. When seconds may count for all our lives we do not need a president continuing to read till the end of the storybook so the kids do not get upset.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#16 Nov 15, 2012
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Each of us probably have a different way of looking at the situation. I look at the situation as him being told that we were probably under possible attack. He may not know exactly what was really happening, I don't know. Then he should have rushed out to find out what was happening. In modern times the president can't waste even a second of time as every second may be vital to the security of this country. If ICBM"s were launched from Russia we would have only about 12 minutes of warning. If missiles were launched from submarines off our coast we may only have several minutes to no warning at all. It is much better for the president to be overly cautious by getting in contact with NORAD, and his top military commanders and be close to the nuclear code suitcase in such a situation. When seconds may count for all our lives we do not need a president continuing to read till the end of the storybook so the kids do not get upset.
I guess we'll never know exactly what he was told, for all we know he was told there were no other indications of threats (other than planes in the air, obviously).

BTW, if my understanding from a retired US Marine pilot is correct, any ICBMs fired from Russia (or anywhere else, for that matter) are noted and verified immediately, perhaps they told him that there were no missile launches, too.
Joe Yule Jr

Atlanta, GA

#17 Nov 15, 2012
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Bush certainly didn't hand over a clean slate, but he most CERTAINLY didnt' hand over THIS mess. Go ahead and call yourself objective. You're not. Like you said, you'll blame Bush forever. That's right where Obama wants you. Congrats.
Well, since we can't go back in time to undo the damage W has done, you sort of ALWAYS have to blame W for what he did. And, while we're at it, the things Clinton did. And the things all the different iterations of Congress did (or didn't do.)

Just because there's a new chief in town doesn't mean the the old one gets an official pardon.

I guess you'll never blame Bush. That's right where the GOP wants you. Congrats.:D

“Liberals are closet raaacists!”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#18 Nov 15, 2012
Joe Yule Jr wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, since we can't go back in time to undo the damage W has done, you sort of ALWAYS have to blame W for what he did. And, while we're at it, the things Clinton did. And the things all the different iterations of Congress did (or didn't do.)
Just because there's a new chief in town doesn't mean the the old one gets an official pardon.
I guess you'll never blame Bush. That's right where the GOP wants you. Congrats.:D
Now! I certainly didn't say that I was giving Bush a pass. I was MORE THAN READY for him to go. No doubt about that. I most assuredly DO blame him for what he handed over to Obama, but I don't blame Bush for the huge INCREASE in our debt, for example. The thing is, where have the democrats blamed ANYTHING on Obama? Where has Obama taken any responsiblity for HIS part in our situation? Prehaps I've missed it, but I haven't seen it. It's very convenient to blame Bush. That's the democrat mantra. That's Obama's big excuse. It's difficult to respect someone who won't take ANY responsibility. Additionally, I haven't read any postings on Topix from registered fiscal conservatives who have given Bush a pass. That simply hasn't happened. Plus, I've not seen nor heard any Republicans on the news nor online give Bush a pass. Have you???: D
Hogwash

Norcross, GA

#19 Nov 15, 2012
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
Now! I certainly didn't say that I was giving Bush a pass. I was MORE THAN READY for him to go. No doubt about that. I most assuredly DO blame him for what he handed over to Obama, but I don't blame Bush for the huge INCREASE in our debt, for example. The thing is, where have the democrats blamed ANYTHING on Obama? Where has Obama taken any responsiblity for HIS part in our situation? Prehaps I've missed it, but I haven't seen it. It's very convenient to blame Bush. That's the democrat mantra. That's Obama's big excuse. It's difficult to respect someone who won't take ANY responsibility. Additionally, I haven't read any postings on Topix from registered fiscal conservatives who have given Bush a pass. That simply hasn't happened. Plus, I've not seen nor heard any Republicans on the news nor online give Bush a pass. Have you???: D
bbbWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! LOL!!! OMG!!!

ROFLMAO!!

HAHAHAHAH!!!

OMG- I'm laughing so hard it hurts....... seriously ...
Hogwash

Norcross, GA

#20 Nov 15, 2012
Sorry, that last post wasn't nice. I wasn't laughing at you I was laughing wi....

Oh screw it. Yep. I was laughing at you.

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