Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Dayton Daily News

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borobeef

Loveland, OH

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#24046
Apr 9, 2013
 

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Why is it that the posts regarding teachers reek of negativity. Teachers are greedy union thugs you say. Teachers don't work enough but get paid too much you say. Children fail because school testing standards are inadequate you say. The Board of Education however? The next risen Savior! They can provide children with more they say. They can provide the taxpayers with more they say. They know what's best for this community and your kids they say. If anyone questions this Board? Holy crap! Instant sin. Your name and the names of your family and friends will be thrown around topic. You will be accused of being disrespectful. A union activist. A disgrace. As an outsider you have to wonder what this Board thinks they can gain by condoning and helping to spread division in a community - all for the sake of our kids. I don't expect a response. I know all I will receive is accusations of being a whining teacher (I'm not) or a union activist. That's fine. I know my truth. I only wish the "so called" school leadership would be as transparent as they claim.
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

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#24047
Apr 9, 2013
 

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Parent Power wrote:
<quoted text>
What Springboro parents are hearing from Springboro Education Association members is "give us your offspring with a dollar
sign per pupil stamped on the forehead; and we'll give you a union teacher in every classroom, griping and complaining about being under-paid, under-praised, and being overly-critical of parents, constantly questioning parents IF we understand how difficult our boys and girls are to teach; while at the same time telling parents that the highly paid union teacher in every classroom is the most important resource in our child's education (even greater than the parents)....UNTIL it's time to send the child home for the parents to "teach" at home WHAT the teacher don't have time to do in the classroom? Isn't there something wrong with this picture of "social" justice for teachers RIGHTS to just show up at work, have a nice day, and then send their work home to the parents? As parents, our question to our teachers should be:
-Don't critize parents until you have walked in the shoes of hard working parents.- btw, teacher, have YOU spent a day in the workplace of parents .... working in the kitchens of our restaurants all day; driving through traffic congestion delivering packages into the late evening; working with patients in hospitals and nursing homes during the night shift; going door to door picking up garbage; going into city sewer lines to correct problems; working outdoors during the worst of weather conditions to restore electrical power....and on and on...
Get Real, teacher, and get to work earning your paycheck and bear your own burdens just like the rest of us working people.
It's just a job, and everybody has to work! Why not try
enjoy employment in our schools? We all know friends and relatives with teacing degrees and masters degrees that would LOVE to "suffer" through a day's work in the shoes of Springboro teachers!
I haven't been critical of any of those jobs or professions you listed - so I don't need to walk a mile in their shoes - I have actually done two of the jobs you listed. Point was - walk a mile in their shoes before you are critical. What is your job? Ever get upset at someone who has never done your job before thinking you are not good at it? Or better yet, think they can do it better than you can?
Lurker

Springboro, OH

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#24048
Apr 9, 2013
 

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borobeef wrote:
Why is it that the posts regarding teachers reek of negativity. Teachers are greedy union thugs you say. Teachers don't work enough but get paid too much you say. Children fail because school testing standards are inadequate you say. The Board of Education however? The next risen Savior! They can provide children with more they say. They can provide the taxpayers with more they say. They know what's best for this community and your kids they say. If anyone questions this Board? Holy crap! Instant sin. Your name and the names of your family and friends will be thrown around topic. You will be accused of being disrespectful. A union activist. A disgrace. As an outsider you have to wonder what this Board thinks they can gain by condoning and helping to spread division in a community - all for the sake of our kids. I don't expect a response. I know all I will receive is accusations of being a whining teacher (I'm not) or a union activist. That's fine. I know my truth. I only wish the "so called" school leadership would be as transparent as they claim.
It's refreshing to read a positive post on here. Any you are right on...
LOL and OMG

Piqua, OH

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#24049
Apr 9, 2013
 

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Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
It's refreshing to read a positive post on here. Any you are right on...
Well, at least as "refreshing" as playing the kids game
"angry birds!"
Squak, Squak! I Am Teacher! Hear Me Squak!
LOL and OMG

Piqua, OH

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#24050
Apr 9, 2013
 

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Irish1158 wrote:
I just think we should start a blog on all your jobs and bash the fact that many of you can go to the bathroom when you want to with out a bell telling you when you can or take a phone call when you need to. Do you give your clients your home number? I do because I can usually only talk to parents during off hours because my phone doesn't ring in my classroom. Did you have to get a bachalor's and a master's degree to keep your job? I did. Do you have to deal with clients who could give a damn about the product (their kid). Do you have to go out and buy clothes and food for your clients because they don't have any? Do you ever have to worry about being hit or bit by your clients. I have worked in business for years before I became a teacher and didn't have to deal with this. But I did choose teaching for the passion of helping kids. I do not thinking that asking for a raise after six years is asking too much but you who have never stepped into a classroom as an adult just go on putting us down. It makes you feel superior to those of us who are trying to shape and make a difference in the lives of those who one day will be taking care of your retirement. I hope they treat you the same way you treat those of us that choose to make a difference. Everyone's jobi is important from the garbage man to the clerk that works at a deli. Do you go into the deli and tell the person working at the counter that you don't think you are going to pay them for their food because al they did was throw the meat on the bun. No, you pay for what you get.
You negative people just drive me nuts since you speak without a clue of what it is like to be in a classroom as a teacher. But go ahead, keep complaining that we are over paid, vacation taking lazy people who only want money to live our lavish life style. Oh and by the way, I am loosing my home due to not having a raise, but my heat, Internet, phone bills, groceries, insurance and gas have all increased. Not to mention the tuition for my children's college has increased. I haven't taken a vacation in several years but I am a money grubbing teacher who lives off the hands of you tax paying citizens. Oh wait, I pay taxes here too. You are such narrow-minded bigots and have no compassion. Do you consider yourself a good Christian too? That would be the icing on the cake, since they are supposed to live as Jesus did. Not judging those whom you don't know.
Squak, Squak! Angry Bird, Angry Bird!
I Am Teacher! Hear Me Squak! Squak!
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24051
Apr 9, 2013
 

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borobeef wrote:
Why is it that the posts regarding teachers reek of negativity. Teachers are greedy union thugs you say. Teachers don't work enough but get paid too much you say. Children fail because school testing standards are inadequate you say. The Board of Education however? The next risen Savior! They can provide children with more they say. They can provide the taxpayers with more they say. They know what's best for this community and your kids they say. If anyone questions this Board? Holy crap! Instant sin. Your name and the names of your family and friends will be thrown around topic. You will be accused of being disrespectful. A union activist. A disgrace. As an outsider you have to wonder what this Board thinks they can gain by condoning and helping to spread division in a community - all for the sake of our kids. I don't expect a response. I know all I will receive is accusations of being a whining teacher (I'm not) or a union activist. That's fine. I know my truth. I only wish the "so called" school leadership would be as transparent as they claim.
I wish you had actually provided something of substance rather than blather. Whine, whine, whine, say nothing of import, and whine some more.

Please inform us, the great unwashed, what this board has done that is so horrible for our children?

Held people accountable for doing the jobs they are paid to perform?

Investing in a technology program that addresses the future and provides tangible results for the money spent?

Spent more on text books for our children?

Discovered the ruse that was pay to participate and reduced its costs by 30% and then gave the families that chose to participate another venue by which they could reduce it by another $100?

Hired a new Superintendent that is on the ball?

Hired a new Curriculum Director who is top notch?

Hired an actual Human Resources person who knows what she is doing?

Turned the cameras back on so the community could see what is going on and make up their own minds?

Pushed through a transparency program that now exists on our school website so everyone in the community can see what they see?

Etc, etc, etc

No which of those tasks do you wish to see undone?
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24052
Apr 9, 2013
 

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And while you are whining, I am afraid I have not heard word one from you about the 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers of this community are funding.

I hear not one word on how we can make this system better for all involved. This is not a zero sum game that force us to take from one to advance another.

Where are the union proposals to rectify this issue of issues?
borobeef

Loveland, OH

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#24053
Apr 9, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish you had actually provided something of substance rather than blather. Whine, whine, whine, say nothing of import, and whine some more.
Please inform us, the great unwashed, what this board has done that is so horrible for our children?
Held people accountable for doing the jobs they are paid to perform?
Investing in a technology program that addresses the future and provides tangible results for the money spent?
Spent more on text books for our children?
Discovered the ruse that was pay to participate and reduced its costs by 30% and then gave the families that chose to participate another venue by which they could reduce it by another $100?
Hired a new Superintendent that is on the ball?
Hired a new Curriculum Director who is top notch?
Hired an actual Human Resources person who knows what she is doing?
Turned the cameras back on so the community could see what is going on and make up their own minds?
Pushed through a transparency program that now exists on our school website so everyone in the community can see what they see?
Etc, etc, etc
No which of those tasks do you wish to see undone?
I have one response. If the Board is behind the teachers and the education why doesn't Mr David Petroni send his school age children to the very schools he claims to do so much for!
borobeef

Loveland, OH

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#24054
Apr 9, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
And while you are whining, I am afraid I have not heard word one from you about the 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers of this community are funding.
I hear not one word on how we can make this system better for all involved. This is not a zero sum game that force us to take from one to advance another.
Where are the union proposals to rectify this issue of issues?
Here's a proposal. Instead of logging onto topix to b!$ch about how the schools and teachers are failing your children spend some time studying with these kids. There is work outside of the classroom that needs to take place as well. The "overpriced babysitters" that you so disrespect can't perform miracles - especially when you're too self absorbed to invest in your own kids. Did your parents study with you?
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

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#24055
Apr 10, 2013
 
Just Watching wrote:
And while you are whining, I am afraid I have not heard word one from you about the 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers of this community are funding.
I hear not one word on how we can make this system better for all involved. This is not a zero sum game that force us to take from one to advance another.
Where are the union proposals to rectify this issue of issues?
And I'm afraid I have not heard one answer to my question - have you ever sat in a classroom to see what really goes on? Clearly that answer is no....walk a mile in someone's shoes....
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24056
Apr 10, 2013
 

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borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a proposal. Instead of logging onto topix to b!$ch about how the schools and teachers are failing your children spend some time studying with these kids. There is work outside of the classroom that needs to take place as well. The "overpriced babysitters" that you so disrespect can't perform miracles - especially when you're too self absorbed to invest in your own kids. Did your parents study with you?
My father had a job that he went to 6 days a week for fifty years. My mother also had a job, raising 8 kids who were one or two years apart. It always puts a smile on my face when people ask me if my mother worked, she had 8 kids, of course she worked.

What my parents did not do was help us with our homework, that was our responsibility. It must have worked, all eight of us went to college and seven graduated.

In regards to work outside the classroom, the contract in question only calls for 7.25 hours per day -.5 hours for lunch -.75 hours for planning period. School itself runs from (for Intermediate, Junior High, and High School) from 7:30-2:20.

With the ubiquitous advent of the portable computing device, more and more people are taking work home each night and on the weekends. Telecommuting has brought the unwanted side effect of never really being away from work. That, you will find, is how many in the other half live 365 days per year, year in and year out. It is a part of the job that you accept when you accept the job.
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

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#24057
Apr 10, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
My father had a job that he went to 6 days a week for fifty years. My mother also had a job, raising 8 kids who were one or two years apart. It always puts a smile on my face when people ask me if my mother worked, she had 8 kids, of course she worked.
What my parents did not do was help us with our homework, that was our responsibility. It must have worked, all eight of us went to college and seven graduated.
In regards to work outside the classroom, the contract in question only calls for 7.25 hours per day -.5 hours for lunch -.75 hours for planning period. School itself runs from (for Intermediate, Junior High, and High School) from 7:30-2:20.
With the ubiquitous advent of the portable computing device, more and more people are taking work home each night and on the weekends. Telecommuting has brought the unwanted side effect of never really being away from work. That, you will find, is how many in the other half live 365 days per year, year in and year out. It is a part of the job that you accept when you accept the job.
And again I ask - have you been in a classroom lately?????? You not answering the question is of course, an answer.

And yes, a lot of people take work home. That is not in dispute. The point is teachers do too. Everyone just assumes it is 7.25 hours of work and that is it. That's the argument for saying they don't work as much as everyone else, isn't it? Its simply not the reality. You need to deal in reality, not presumption when speaking of work hours.

So your argument is that you would like for the teachers to only work the contract hours stated? What if the contract said 9 hours per day - would that make you happy? 10? I like teachers that work as many hours as it takes to get their work done. Do some only work the 7.25? You bet. But the majority work over that, I can guarantee you.
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

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#24058
Apr 10, 2013
 

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borobeef wrote:
<quoted text>
I have one response. If the Board is behind the teachers and the education why doesn't Mr David Petroni send his school age children to the very schools he claims to do so much for!
Your response is just lame and reeks of a personal vendetta. Just Watching has brought up quite a number of valid points and the only issue you can discuss is how Petroni decides to educate his children?

I personally don't care where he sends his kids or how they are educated. The fact is, Petroni should be praised for volunteering to do a job that most of us would never choose to do.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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Apr 10, 2013
 

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walk a mile wrote:
<quoted text>
And again I ask - have you been in a classroom lately?????? You not answering the question is of course, an answer.
And yes, a lot of people take work home. That is not in dispute. The point is teachers do too. Everyone just assumes it is 7.25 hours of work and that is it. That's the argument for saying they don't work as much as everyone else, isn't it? Its simply not the reality. You need to deal in reality, not presumption when speaking of work hours.
So your argument is that you would like for the teachers to only work the contract hours stated? What if the contract said 9 hours per day - would that make you happy? 10? I like teachers that work as many hours as it takes to get their work done. Do some only work the 7.25? You bet. But the majority work over that, I can guarantee you.
Yes is the answer to your question. And I would be more than happy to visit a few more and would encourage all of the parents to begin making unannounced visits to the classrooms of this district.

What is the majority 166 out of 330? How do you quantify that anyway?

The truth is that a teacher works less than 2/3 the number of days the normal full time employee works in America. The truth is many people take work home at night via the computer to which we are now seemingly permanently attached.

It is a great job, great hours, rewarding product outcomes, great pay, and greater benefits than most of the rest of us enjoy.

Do you seriously think that people will view this as the living hell you attempt to portray?

If indeed you do view it as such, get out.

Do something else, a person with your obvious talent will have little problem replacing this position.
Worth Repeating

Piqua, OH

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#24060
Apr 10, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
While we discuss reform, let us all not forget who that reform effects the most, our children. All of them deserve more than what we are giving them now.
They may cry about getting an education today, but will thank you many years down the road in ways you cannot begin to fathom today.
See page 12 for key
http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C ...
6th grade 2011 OAA Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands
(This represents Springboro Class of ’17)
READING
Advanced.......76%-100%
Accelerated.....61%-75%
Proficient.........35%-60%
If a student was able to answer 17 out of 49 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in READING.
In 6th grade READING, Springboro had 172 students out of 502 students (34%) fall in the Proficient or below category
______
MATH
Advanced.......68%-100%
Accelerated....58%-67%
Proficient........40%-57%
If a student was able to answer 20 out of 50 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in MATH.
In 6th grade MATH, Springboro had 127 students our of 502 students ( 25%) falling the Proficient or below category
__________
7th grade 2011 OAA Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands
(This is Springboro’s Class of ’16)
READING
Advanced 81%-100%
Accelerated 66%-80%
Proficient 45%-65%(45%=Proficient)
In 7th grade READING, Springboro had 172 students out of 413 students (42%) fall in the Proficient or below category
_____
MATH
Advanced 72%-100%
Accelerated 58%-71%
Proficient 32%-57%(32%=Proficient)
In 7th grade MATH, Springboro had 140 students out of 413 students (34%) fall in the Proficient or below categories.
8th grade 2011 OAA Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands
(Springboro Class of ’15)
READING
Advanced.......83%-100%
Accelerated.....71%-82%
Proficient.........48%-70%
If a student was able to answer 23 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in READING.
In 8th grade READING, Springboro had 136 students out of 443 students (31%) fall in the Proficient or below category.
MATH
Advanced.......78%-100%
Accelerated....61%-77%
Proficient........35%-60%
If a student was able to answer 16 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in MATH.
In 8th grade MATH, Springboro had 203 students out of 443 students (46%) fall the Proficient or below category.
__________
Ohio Graduation Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2012 test
READING
Advanced.......79%-100%
Accelerated.....63.5%-78%
Proficient.........40.6%-63.4%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in READING.
Of the 380 Springboro sophomores who took the READING portion of the Ohio Graduation Test, 88 students (23%) fell in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
MATH
Advanced.......75%-100%
Accelerated....61%-74%
Proficient........42%-60%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in MATH.
Of the 380 Springboro sophomores who took the MATH portion of the Ohio Graduation Test, 40 students (10%) fell in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
They further REDUCED the number of questions correct that you needed to reach the various achievement levels down a question from the 2011 already low levels.
Thank you for spreading the word to parents and community members that Education in Springboro is all about our student's individual achievements; not about job security for union employees. As parents and school district voters, we greatly appreciate the leading role that our school employees have in our children's classroom education. Now we need the help of our Springboro Schools Superintendent AND his Staff, to educate our classroom teachers to support, and work within, the school district's new philosophy of our children's first budgeting reforms.
Do You Understand

Piqua, OH

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#24061
Apr 10, 2013
 

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So exactly why are the anti-children first; pro-levy supporters so strongly oppossing our school district's board leadership? As stated in an earlier post on this blog, before Kelly Kohls got on this school board our district projected a $30 million deficit. Now, we project a $5 million surplus after replacing many things taken from the children during the levy campaigns. We have now added many curriculum and safety measures for the children of our district. All of this without new money. What changed? Our new BOE majority have become much more efficient, holding people accountable, and making all decisions using what is good for education and our children as first priority.

Now, WHY would anyone oppose the board's decisions doing what is good for education and our children first?

Could it be .....There are embedded organized units that desperately need to prove that our reform-minded board members are wrong, and that more money is imperative, because they see a collapse of THEIR status quo system, IF it is proven that it is not all "about the
money" after all. IF the easy flow of new levy money stops, then this organized OPPOSITION is no longer necessary, and no longer maintains control of education and more importantly, THE MONEY.
Do you understand?
walk a mile

Springboro, OH

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#24062
Apr 10, 2013
 

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Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes is the answer to your question. And I would be more than happy to visit a few more and would encourage all of the parents to begin making unannounced visits to the classrooms of this district.
What is the majority 166 out of 330? How do you quantify that anyway?
The truth is that a teacher works less than 2/3 the number of days the normal full time employee works in America. The truth is many people take work home at night via the computer to which we are now seemingly permanently attached.
It is a great job, great hours, rewarding product outcomes, great pay, and greater benefits than most of the rest of us enjoy.
Do you seriously think that people will view this as the living hell you attempt to portray?
If indeed you do view it as such, get out.
Do something else, a person with your obvious talent will have little problem replacing this position.
Again, not a teacher. And again, why is it that when people defend the teaching profession they MUST be a teacher? Wow.

Not portraying as a living hell at all. Just trying to point out the REALITIES that people seem to miss. And I know the REALITY because I have been in my childrens' classrooms many many times as they have progressed through the school system. I have seen that the planning period everyone seems to think teachers have a free 45 minutes to do whatever they please, they don't. And the paid lunch period really isn't sit around talking it up with their teacher pals, but sucking down a lumch in 5 minutes because you have kids in from recess finishing homework, doing projects, etc. Again, not porteying anything as a living hell as you describe, but portraying REALITY.

Now one thing we can agree on - more people should be encouraged to visit a classroom so they can see the REALITY of what occurs. And quite frankly, I would love for the district to create some kind of policy to encourage that more. The profession does seem to have great hours, decent pay, good benefits - but again, the point being - don't criticize something until you have walked a mile in other people's shoes. A lot of people seem to be experts in "teaching". Yet, I'll bet those same people would not be eager to criticize accountants, doctors, race car drivers. Man, those accountants have it made. Only have to work really hard about 2 months out of the year around tax time. I wouldn't criticize them because....I have no idea what they really do!

To answer your question - a majority to me would be 219 out of 330.
Lurker

Springboro, OH

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#24063
Apr 10, 2013
 

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poundsand wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response is just lame and reeks of a personal vendetta. Just Watching has brought up quite a number of valid points and the only issue you can discuss is how Petroni decides to educate his children?
I personally don't care where he sends his kids or how they are educated. The fact is, Petroni should be praised for volunteering to do a job that most of us would never choose to do.
No, we have a board member who is changing everything about our schools but doesn't have any skin in the game. His decisions strongly affect my children but his kids aren't even in the schools he holds sway over!
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

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#24064
Apr 10, 2013
 

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Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we have a board member who is changing everything about our schools but doesn't have any skin in the game. His decisions strongly affect my children but his kids aren't even in the schools he holds sway over!
As stated above... before Kelly Kohls and Petroni, etc., got on this school board our district projected a $30 million deficit.

Now, we project a $5 million surplus after replacing many things taken from the children during the 'sky is falling' union led levy campaigns.

We have now added many curriculum and safety measures for the children of our district. All of this without new money. What changed? Our new BOE majority have become much more efficient, holding people accountable, and making all decisions using what is good for education and our children as first priority.

Now, WHY would YOU or anyone oppose the board's decisions doing what is good for education and our children first?

Don't just spout off personal opinions. Prove to those that read this blog how this is affecting your poor children in a negative way.
Just Watching

Springfield, OH

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#24066
Apr 10, 2013
 

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walk a mile wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, not a teacher. And again, why is it that when people defend the teaching profession they MUST be a teacher? Wow.
Not portraying as a living hell at all. Just trying to point out the REALITIES that people seem to miss. And I know the REALITY because I have been in my childrens' classrooms many many times as they have progressed through the school system. I have seen that the planning period everyone seems to think teachers have a free 45 minutes to do whatever they please, they don't. And the paid lunch period really isn't sit around talking it up with their teacher pals, but sucking down a lumch in 5 minutes because you have kids in from recess finishing homework, doing projects, etc. Again, not porteying anything as a living hell as you describe, but portraying REALITY.
Now one thing we can agree on - more people should be encouraged to visit a classroom so they can see the REALITY of what occurs. And quite frankly, I would love for the district to create some kind of policy to encourage that more. The profession does seem to have great hours, decent pay, good benefits - but again, the point being - don't criticize something until you have walked a mile in other people's shoes. A lot of people seem to be experts in "teaching". Yet, I'll bet those same people would not be eager to criticize accountants, doctors, race car drivers. Man, those accountants have it made. Only have to work really hard about 2 months out of the year around tax time. I wouldn't criticize them because....I have no idea what they really do!
To answer your question - a majority to me would be 219 out of 330.
219, did you survey the crowd to find out how many work 3 or 4 hours every night on school work?

These don't include the supplemental contracts do they, because they are getting paid to take on those responsibilities. And from what I have seen the amount of time some put in coaching for the amount they are reimbursed is nominal. Then again, a small percentage may be doing the coaching for the money, but vast majority perform the task for the sheer enjoyment of the job.

All jobs have drawbacks as well a positives, if you find the pay, hours, working conditions, clients, or benefits not to your standard or liking, pursue other options. There are a host of them out there, go find one that is right for you.

I would suspect that a newer teacher may have to do more planning than one who has been at this for 15-20 years. All are different and blanket statements seldom apply to everyone.

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