Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,282

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Springboro, OH

#23136 Jan 22, 2013
Union and levy lovers just want everyone to work for them and hand over their pay check without asking for accountability. The intelligent people of Springboro have said, "NO, You have enough and by the way lets see how you are doing. Who does not want us to see how we are doing"? Who is at risk with the questioning? Think about it.
If you think everything is perfect you will not look into it and see anything you dislike. Springboro is dropping the ball on gifted students and on students that are "Proficient". Can they fix it by themselves? One might think yes but, why then haven't they over the last 10 years?

Why? The MONEY? Funneled into adult hands

YES the MONEY. They wanted more and kids were in the way. If we keep telling everyone we are great they don't notice we are letting education and our children down. Now, this is State and Nation wide not just here in Springboro. Who is responsible? Your boards of education. Who has been telling them to shut up and do what they are told? OEA, Unions and OSBA. The problem is that they have been weak and did what they were told and ignored the kids. Who should you hold responsible= your elected board members. Board members are elected to do one thing, make decisions on behalf of the students keeping the budget (taxpayer) in mind.

What have they been told to do? Work to pass levies and stop the opposition, "get the money". By whom? OSBA. You finally have 4 with some nerve and you should support them right now. Right now they are under attack from the money grubbers and their puppets. You know the ones in the audience at every meeting, hurting your children's academic future.
How many

Yellow Springs, OH

#23137 Jan 22, 2013
blogg this wrote:
This letter comes from
-10,000 Moms United
www.10000MomsUnited.com
It appears they know more than the goons of last Jan. 10th meeting. Maybe they have not talked to Lisa who thinks we are all perfect just like 50% of the schools in this State rated Excellent and ED. Why change it if we are perfect now. You lie, that's why.
Come on David Bowman, just look at this web site and look at our scores, get educated about what "Proficient" means. Then tell us no changes are necessary.
Please look at the numbers. See how many of our students fail the State exams and are still called "Proficient". You can't know any of these #'s and call us excellent, you can't look someone in the eye and say that, or can you Lisa?
10,000 moms write
Dear elected officials,
We love our schools, and the teachers who work so hard to help our kids.
But as parents, we see too many of our children failing to reach their full potential. That’s not acceptable.
We all have a stake in getting this right because we all pay the price when our children get through school without mastering the skills and knowledge they need to succeed in life.
When 41 percent of Ohio graduates going on to public colleges need remediation just to be able to do freshman work, one thing is clear: our schools are broken and, as taxpayers, we’re being cheated.
Even our very best schools can and need to be much better. As moms, we won’t settle for anything but the best for our children. You, as our elected officials, shouldn’t either.
We want our children challenged and motivated. We want schools that encourage students to do better and learn more, and, above all, that prepare them for career success.
But we’re not getting that right now even though school spending is at an all time high, and keeps on rising
Enough is enough. We must act today to better prepare our children for tomorrow.
Every Ohio child can perform at a higher level than our schools currently demand. It is time for children to be put first, for adults in the system to step back, and for political leadership to have the courage to act forcefully to ensure that our schools meet these expectations.
Are you, elected officials, listening to us?
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
10,000? Really? Doubtful...
blogg this

Springboro, OH

#23138 Jan 22, 2013
__________ has been transformed when she lost the November election and became a bitter person. At that point she became useful to do the bidding of evil. See the Saul Alenski Rules for Radicals and see this is exactly what she has participated in.

IN the words of that famous Socialist Saul
Rule #
4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

Constant public records requests and filming meetings to look for an opening=none found yet.

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

This has been done using others calling it "Community".

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
High fives and patting each other on the back for rumor mongering.

7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."
Remember Petitions, public protests and now blogging.

8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."
blogg this

Springboro, OH

#23139 Jan 22, 2013
How many wrote:
<quoted text>
10,000? Really? Doubtful...
Really? I thought numbers impressed you. So if this said 100 you would believe it? Would 150 signatures impress you then?
Kids first

Piqua, OH

#23140 Jan 22, 2013
Please Read wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you read? Can you read all of the posts above, can you click on a link and read it or have you been victimized by public education. Read the posts and links please and see what you are missing or at least have someone read them to you.
It is a very simple question - what is the specific need in the Springboro City School district that this conversion school will address?

My guess is you can't name one single group that will benefit because there could be many. If you say the school will help the gifted students then what about the students that are failing. If you say the failing sudents then what about the gifted students. Etc. All students could probably benefit from some focused learning that a conversion school or other learning tool could provide but JW is only so big and cannot be everything to everyone. So, name the specific group that will benefit. If you can't then we as a district need to do work on our own before we hire a company to tell us if we can afford the school or not. Kids first remember!

Your attempt to change the subject is lame!
How many

Yellow Springs, OH

#23141 Jan 22, 2013
blogg this wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I thought numbers impressed you. So if this said 100 you would believe it? Would 150 signatures impress you then?
No, I wouldn't. 150 is not even close to 10,000, so it would not impress me at all. It said 10,000. I very much doubt that number.
It is Written

Piqua, OH

#23142 Jan 22, 2013
Although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. - Romans 1:21
blogg this

Springboro, OH

#23143 Jan 22, 2013
Kids first wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a very simple question - what is the specific need in the Springboro City School district that this conversion school will address?
My guess is you can't name one single group that will benefit because there could be many. If you say the school will help the gifted students then what about the students that are failing. If you say the failing sudents then what about the gifted students. Etc. All students could probably benefit from some focused learning that a conversion school or other learning tool could provide but JW is only so big and cannot be everything to everyone. So, name the specific group that will benefit. If you can't then we as a district need to do work on our own before we hire a company to tell us if we can afford the school or not. Kids first remember!
Your attempt to change the subject is lame!
You are right maybe we need the whole district to be converted maybe each building should be turned into charter schools so the kids can be the focus. Learning can better delivered and the nonsense left out of each day. WOW you just solved all of our problems. Thank YOu
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23144 Jan 22, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
A few more sites if you want information that is not forthcoming from our schools regarding these programs.
http://www.oagc.com/files/PS_EOpts.pdf
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages...
http://www.sinclair.edu/precollege/pseo/
http://www.units.muohio.edu/lifelonglearning/...
http://www.wright.edu/undergraduate-admission...
http://www.udayton.edu/apply/pseo.php
Call your child's counselor and ask for more information, your family could save tens of thousands of dollars in higher education costs.
Post Secondary Enrollment Options (PSEO) is an academic option open to high school seniors and juniors in various US states, such as Ohio. The options allow students to take courses at the college level. It is possible for a student to GRADUATE from high school with both an ASSOCIATES DEGREE and a high school diploma at the same time via PSEO. The PSEO program was created in 1985 by Minnesota, and later adopted by Ohio's Department of Education.

In Ohio, PSEO is actually known as PSEOP, for Post Secondary Enrollment Options Program. It was enacted in 1989 for 11th and 12th graders. Then, in 1997, the grades were expanded to include 9th and 10th graders. Because of this, the number of students in the PSEOP has almost grown in size, with over 15,000 students attending in 2011.

Wright State enrolled 164 students in the program
University of Dayton enrolled 32 students
Sinclair College enrolled 432 students
Miami University enrolled 339 students

Springboro in 2011 had but 25 students enrolled in the program.

Ohio wants your child to do better and help further your child's education at higher levels, according to the Ohio Revised Code tuition and books are paid for by the state via a funding mechanism devised by the legislature.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3365

If you child can do even one semester's worth of the introductory college coursework, that family could save $15,000 off the cost of their child's education. Do the math for more in depth participation, the amount of money to be saved is real and astounding.

Waynesville is having a PSEO meeting February 26

PSEO NIGHT
FEBRUARY 26 AT 7PM IN THE HIGH SCHOOL CAFETERIA.

The necessary paperwork needs to be filed and applications made by mid March for the coming year.

Why we are not having a meeting, I have no idea. If your child could graduate from high school with enough credits to obtain an ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE, imagine the financial impact on the family and that child. A familiy's savings could exceed $60,000.

This program amounts to real college classes with real college credits.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23145 Jan 22, 2013
Kids first wrote:
<quoted text>
Just Watching - if you are going to reply to my post then maybe you should read the post. Also, how do you know my child is doing well - very curious reply.
First off, I never disagreed that there are many kids that don't score well on the tests and that there is most likely more the school district can do to educate all our children. That was not the point of the post.
My point was to discuss the conversion school proposal. The Callender Group presented a proposal to the district to do some research into our community and the feasibility of starting a conversion school within our district. Before the proposal is approved I had a question (that has yet to be answered); what kids would be served by this new school? If we don't have an answer to that, I don't understand why a feasibility study is needed. The Callender study will not "uncover those opportunities that we seem to be missing within our school" they will mearly identify the funding requirements to open a new school (phase one doesn't even look at our student population at all). If the Callender Group indicates there is profitability in starting a converstion school then we as a district will need to determine who will benefit (not an easy task - how do you prioritize the needs). My second question is this: if we are so determined to put kids first, then what do we say if the results of the Callender group study says the school will cost the district more money - do we then say we can't afford it and sorry to the kids that could possibly benefit from the school? How is that putting kids first?
If the Callender proposal is going away and will not be voted on, then I agree - let's move on to figuring out how to improve the education within Springoboro.
I played the odds, because in Springboro over 40% of the children are considered "gifted". Assessment scores seem to bely that point, but even if they are not, the rest of the statements hold true.

No one knows what type of school it could be as yet because no one has gleaned all of the possibilities. We are not hindered, nor hamstrung, by the past and are free to reinvent the school any way we wish. Our only constraints are a few state mandates and our own imaginations.

Integrating a new concept into our existing framework will require thought, deep discussions, and thorough investigation. I do NOT believe I have heard anyone say anything is a slam dunk deal. I do believe the idea was to perform a due diligence with someone that has worked within this field extensively that has a broad and deep understanding of the issues.

If one is to investigate the possibilities, why would that person go to someone with a passing familiarity with the issue. Go speak with someone who has been there, done that already. We have no problem seeking legal counsel for everything under the sun, some times one proceeds with a project and sometimes one doesn't. The issue will depend on a multitude of information, not just one source's opinion.
Wondering Why

Piqua, OH

#23146 Jan 22, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
I thought Mr. Webber gave a fine speech, he presents well to the public and made some impassioned pleas that seemed to resonate with the home crowd.
The one thing that appeared to be lacking in all of the pro Babb speakers was any concern for the 2000 plus kids in our district who just aren't getting it academically as well as the speakers' children.
I never heard word one from anyone that their child who wasn't getting everything from their education in our school district. All of the men and women who spoke had children in the gifted program that were doing great.
They expounded relentlessly how wonderful their children were doing and what great teachers their kids have enjoyed.
But not a word for the 2000 plus children who are struggling academically in this school district each year. Get out the school report card and do the math, 2000 plus kids would nearly fill our gym at a basketball game.
Where were the pleas for those 2000 plus children?
Instead we have a group of speakers imploring the district to maintain the status quo, a place where their children get the attention.
Self serving?
Perhaps just a bit.
Concern about others?
Not in the least.
Could it be that these proud ones so rudely demanding status quo (where they feel like big fish in a small pond) actually fear this broader vision of education (where they may just be small fish in a big pond)?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23147 Jan 23, 2013
For all of the students whose parents would like to see substantial cost savings at the college level, read the FAQ on PSEO option for 9th through 12 graders.

The earlier your child is enrolled in this program the more years they have to participate. A 9th grader would have four years in the program. A 12th grader only one.

[PDF]
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION - Ohio Department of Education
www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/.../DocumentDownload.a... ...

Last year we only had 50 kids enrolled out of 1500 or so at the high school.

In 2011 we only had 25 taking advantage of the program.
Mixed

Lebanon, OH

#23148 Jan 23, 2013
Integrating a new concept into our existing framework will require thought, deep discussions, and thorough investigation. I do NOT believe I have heard anyone say anything is a slam dunk deal. I do believe the idea was to perform a due diligence with someone that has worked within this field extensively that has a broad and deep understanding of the issues.

I agree with you to some degree here but to give this company 15,000 dollars for them to come here and say "Yes, a conversion school would do wonders here" is hard for me to handle. That company is saying yes no matter what, why not find three companies and give them 5,000 each to come up with an answer.
PSEO

Piqua, OH

#23149 Jan 23, 2013
Who said Springboro wasn't having a PSEO meeting? I was under the impression it was going to be in February - as it always has been. I've already been to one in Springboro a year or two ago.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23150 Jan 23, 2013
Mixed wrote:
Integrating a new concept into our existing framework will require thought, deep discussions, and thorough investigation. I do NOT believe I have heard anyone say anything is a slam dunk deal. I do believe the idea was to perform a due diligence with someone that has worked within this field extensively that has a broad and deep understanding of the issues.
I agree with you to some degree here but to give this company 15,000 dollars for them to come here and say "Yes, a conversion school would do wonders here" is hard for me to handle. That company is saying yes no matter what, why not find three companies and give them 5,000 each to come up with an answer.
$15,000 is cheap for lawyers, at $200/hour, that amounts to 75 man hours of work. At $300/hour, it only comes out to 50 man hours. Too do anything justice and do more than just scratch the surface, this will take more than just a few man hours regardless of the way you slice the pie.

As they say, you have to spend money to make money. And I personally would rather spend a little up front to ensure as best I can that the large amount I want to invest in a plan later, is well thought out.
we agree

Piqua, OH

#23151 Jan 23, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
... The issue will depend on a multitude of information, not just one source's opinion.
I agree - so why are we putting our money in one company's hands before we have had input from other sources (that are free to the district) like talking to Miamisburg and West Carrollton Principals, or other people that have started conversion schools?
Ridiculous

Dayton, OH

#23152 Jan 23, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Post Secondary Enrollment Options (PSEO) is an academic option open to high school seniors and juniors in various US states, such as Ohio. The options allow students to take courses at the college level. It is possible for a student to GRADUATE from high school with both an ASSOCIATES DEGREE and a high school diploma at the same time via PSEO. The PSEO program was created in 1985 by Minnesota, and later adopted by Ohio's Department of Education.
In Ohio, PSEO is actually known as PSEOP, for Post Secondary Enrollment Options Program. It was enacted in 1989 for 11th and 12th graders. Then, in 1997, the grades were expanded to include 9th and 10th graders. Because of this, the number of students in the PSEOP has almost grown in size, with over 15,000 students attending in 2011.
Wright State enrolled 164 students in the program
University of Dayton enrolled 32 students
Sinclair College enrolled 432 students
Miami University enrolled 339 students
Springboro in 2011 had but 25 students enrolled in the program.
Ohio wants your child to do better and help further your child's education at higher levels, according to the Ohio Revised Code tuition and books are paid for by the state via a funding mechanism devised by the legislature.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3365
If you child can do even one semester's worth of the introductory college coursework, that family could save $15,000 off the cost of their child's education. Do the math for more in depth participation, the amount of money to be saved is real and astounding.
Waynesville is having a PSEO meeting February 26
PSEO NIGHT
FEBRUARY 26 AT 7PM IN THE HIGH SCHOOL CAFETERIA.
The necessary paperwork needs to be filed and applications made by mid March for the coming year.
Why we are not having a meeting, I have no idea. If your child could graduate from high school with enough credits to obtain an ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE, imagine the financial impact on the family and that child. A familiy's savings could exceed $60,000.
This program amounts to real college classes with real college credits.
Springboro has never been big on "pushing" the PSEO. My feeling was that it would take tax money away from the district, but I don't know if that is true.
Just Because

Piqua, OH

#23153 Jan 23, 2013
we agree wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree - so why are we putting our money in one company's hands before we have had input from other sources (that are free to the district) like talking to Miamisburg and West Carrollton Principals, or other people that have started conversion schools?
Because there is only one right way to do the right thing;and the right thing to do is to hire an outside professional group that has the time and expertise to get going on the job and get it done right.
Many would agree that Springboro school district insiders are not the right professionals to pursue "why consider a conversion school" since it has been proven that insiders have opinions biased toward Teachers Union self interest of empowerment and control over our children's classroom teachers and school tax dollars; clearly, this conflict of interest of public school insiders is in fear that the individual child's school tax dollars for the individual student's best interest; would take tax dollars from the public schools teachers unions fees.
Furthermore, none of the school district insiders would do the hard work and put in the time necessary to do the feasibility study, using their professional expertise, without getting compensation of big money for their own personal wallets.
It does appear that all this opposition from the insiders to spending money for this study, is nothing more than a greedy grab
of the teachers union to deny any professional the right to work in Springboro who does not pay his dues to the Springboro Educatin Association. And that's just not the right way to do the education business in our community.
Just Because

Piqua, OH

#23154 Jan 23, 2013
Our Springboro school district should invest the
$15,000 consulting fee to explore needed answers to the many questions, that all Springboro families and taxpaying homeowners are now asking, about the academic achievements of our students, vs the reputation of success enjoyed by our excellent with distinction rating (which now appears to be pumped up by boro pep squads, cheering on how great our union teachers are).
Just Because

Piqua, OH

#23155 Jan 23, 2013
Mixed wrote:
Integrating a new concept into our existing framework will require thought, deep discussions, and thorough investigation. I do NOT believe I have heard anyone say anything is a slam dunk deal. I do believe the idea was to perform a due diligence with someone that has worked within this field extensively that has a broad and deep understanding of the issues.
I agree with you to some degree here but to give this company 15,000 dollars for them to come here and say "Yes, a conversion school would do wonders here" is hard for me to handle. That company is saying yes no matter what, why not find three companies and give them 5,000 each to come up with an answer.
Because many of us, among Springboro families and community-wide tax payers, already trust the integrity and expertise of our elected school board representative, David Petroni, who has proven by his good works throughout our school district and community, that his only interest in serving the public is to provide the best possible education for all community children, while living within our means.
Springboro school district is very fortunate in having the financial and leadership vision of good citizens, including Mr. Petroni, who are willing to do this difficult job of board member; which pays next to nothing in dollars; but great rewards of standing firm doing the right thing even when doing the right thing is not the popular thing to do.
Special thanks and much apppreciatin are due to our board members for working to make our schools and community a better place to live, work, and learn.

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