Cross Over The Hill religion classes

Cross Over The Hill religion classes

Posted in the Van Wert Forum

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Wondering

Mount Gilead, OH

#1 Jan 25, 2012
I have read several articles about the Cross Over the Hill program that is going to be instituted for the 12-13' school year at the new Van Wert Elementary and I really don't think it is a good idea.

Basically, for one hour per week, students will be leaving the school, walking with a parent volunteer to a house that has been renovated in to classrooms, and learning 'basic bible beliefs' that apply to 'most all denominations'. While I personally believe in God, take my family to church, and strive to live a Christian lifestyle, I am not so sure that offering this religious education during school hours is a good thing. Sure, parents can refuse to sign the permission slip that would allow their kids to participate, but is that really a feasible option? Somehow, I can not foresee that being without stigma and prejudice.

I understand that the law allows students to be excused for one hour per week for religious purposes, but somehow I don't think that this was created with the idea of herding the whole class just off of school property to have religion class. Where is the the separation of church and state? In a community like Van Wert, any child who does not participate WILL be stigmatized. If this was a anthropological approach to the studies religions throughout the world, I could fully embrace it. And, really, encompassing other religious beliefs is only going to strengthen and support the values that they are hoping to nuture with this program. Yet, the way that it is currently structured will leave anyone who is not a Christian, who does not want their child's spiritual path directed by this program, or who is fundamentally opposed to having a singular religion presented as religious education during school hours(which tax money pays for) left isolated by the more influential and, whether they admit it or not, judgmental supporters of this program.

I fully agree that kids need moral guidance and examples. I also agree that religion can be a good way to do this. I just disagree that it should be organized or supported in ANY way by the school.

Thoughts?
new year new attitude

United States

#2 Jan 25, 2012
Lincolnview does it....seems to be ok.
Probably not a bad idea

Sycamore, OH

#3 Jan 25, 2012
"Where is the the separation of church and state?"

It's in (using your own words) "herding the whole class just off of school property to have religion class."
Also I might add

Sycamore, OH

#4 Jan 25, 2012
Without alternative and competing views, public education is little more than indoctrination. A Christian World View is a healthy challenge to some of the state's curriculum.

Probably not a bad idea
Wondering

Mount Gilead, OH

#5 Jan 25, 2012
And, in doing so, it is merely a loophole in the technicality of the ideology, intent and purpose of the law. To put it in to perspective, how do you think it would go over, if some group were to offer Jewish, Hindu, Pagan, etc spiritual philosophy and teachings during school hours where the majority of the kids would go, and to not do so would stigmatize a student. It is not the teachings that I oppose to, quite the contrary, but the avenue and means of doing so. Why not after school? Or before? Personally, I spend many many hours as a parent instituting these morals- I see the value for sure. I am concerned that it is not a good set-up for those who do not wish to participate. I am concerned that it is a regression in terms of acceptance of those who do not fit in the W.A.S.P. mold. I am concerned for the social repercussions of those students who opt out.

And, for what it is worth, my student will not be opting out. These are beliefs that I hold and am trying to model and instill in my child. I just really wish it was available in a different way(if it has to be intermixed with school at all).
Wondering

Mount Gilead, OH

#6 Jan 25, 2012
Are you speaking of evolution versus creationalism? If not, can you give me examples of what the Christiam World View will offer a counter-perspective to?
Reply

Sycamore, OH

#7 Jan 25, 2012
A Christian World View is based upon faith. The Apostle Paul teaches that whatever is not of faith is sin, Romans 14:23. So in essence, public education only teaches students how to sin more efficiently, or more effectively. Faith, on the other hand, will apply what is being taught in a way that incorporates God. Or, faith will even reject what is being taught if it doesn't square with the teachings of Christ. Good things are only good if done for the right reason.
Wondering wrote:
Are you speaking of evolution versus creationalism? If not, can you give me examples of what the Christiam World View will offer a counter-perspective to?
Really

Mount Gilead, OH

#8 Jan 25, 2012
More specifically,*what* public school curriculum teaches them to sin more effectively/efficiently? Other than the much debated creationalism vs. evolution, I am not sure what you are referring to.
new year new attitude

United States

#9 Jan 25, 2012
This will become a religious debate in 5 4 3 2.....1. I am right and you are wrong.
Reply

Sycamore, OH

#12 Jan 25, 2012
"whatever is not of faith is sin", Romans 14:23. By law they cannot teach faith.= sin
Really wrote:
More specifically,*what* public school curriculum teaches them to sin more effectively/efficiently? Other than the much debated creationalism vs. evolution, I am not sure what you are referring to.
Lordy Sakes

Lima, OH

#13 Jan 25, 2012
Id hate to see our kids have some values! for pete sake give these kids a chance to experience God! I say Go Go Go. I know the people who are doing this and they are wonderful people. Lordy Sakes give it a chance. for the greater good of our town and our world.
The rational one

Van Wert, OH

#14 Jan 25, 2012
I know for a fact (I know people on the school board) that this is going to be basic Christian teaching. They are just saying they're going to teach the basics of all to keep people like me happy. the reality is it's just like bible school.

They won't be teaching anything from another religion. Why would they? It'll raise more qeustions with the students than the "teacher" can answere.Plus the parents would flip out, because a lot of religious people can't accept other ways of thinking. And who wants there kid to learn about the similarities of Krishna, Horrus, and Christ? the more you learn about what others believe, the more you realize there's no sense in putting people down because of their beliefs.

I wish this would be for high school juniors and seniors only. At this age they're starting to be capable of rational thinking, and learning the basics of each faith would help give the future generation an open minded perspective of the world and what the people in it believe.
Really

Mount Gilead, OH

#15 Jan 25, 2012
Lordy Sakes- Are you saying that without God one can not have values? Because, if so, that illustrates my exact point: while it is 'optional' those who do not participate will be stigmatized, seen as lesser than, judged Godless or immoral, etc. And, quite honestly, religion and values do not necessarily go hand in hand in reality. One can have values without religion, and one can have religion without values.

The Rational One- Agreed.
Reply

Sycamore, OH

#16 Jan 25, 2012
People have values and do good, but for the wrong reasons. Every good thing we do has self serving ulterior motives. When we begin to love our enemies as our own selves, and work as hard for their success as we do our own, then we are closer to performing the good that God requires of us. Also, if we are not motivated to glorify God as the end product of the good we do, it too is sin.
Really wrote:
Lordy Sakes- Are you saying that without God one can not have values? Because, if so, that illustrates my exact point: while it is 'optional' those who do not participate will be stigmatized, seen as lesser than, judged Godless or immoral, etc. And, quite honestly, religion and values do not necessarily go hand in hand in reality. One can have values without religion, and one can have religion without values.
The Rational One- Agreed.
URA Juvenile

Sunbury, OH

#18 Jan 25, 2012
Where in the constitution does it say anything about separation of church a state?

What about the Christian's rights? You don't seem to have a problem about teaching their children about all of your perverted ethics.

Most schools that have such programs require parental permission for student participation. You should learn about what you are trying to promote hate over.

Quit using John Stewart's talking points and think for yourself.
Probably not a bad idea wrote:
"Where is the the separation of church and state?"
It's in (using your own words) "herding the whole class just off of school property to have religion class."
Wondering

Mount Gilead, OH

#19 Jan 25, 2012
URA, how are Christians' rights being compromised by attending school? And, what perverted ethics are part of the school's curriculum? Also, I really did not see anyone trying to promote hate of any sort. The most hateful post that I have read, is yours.
Lordy Sakes

Lima, OH

#20 Jan 25, 2012
Dear Reply - no , that is not what I am saying. but I am saying that a child who understands that he or she is loved by God and surrounded by the love of God will also have a better understanding of his fellow man! For God SO loved the world that he gave his only son to that we all can live in eternity. I cannot think of a greater love story than that . Yes, he thought you , and you and you were worthy of his sons blood! I BELIEVE!
Reply

Sycamore, OH

#21 Jan 25, 2012
You said "and you were worthy of his sons blood!" ????

If anyone was worthy of Christ's blood, then his death was unnecessary. It's because we are unworthy of salvation that he provided it for us by absorbing God's wrath on the cross, that was due to us because of our sin. It was by Grace (Grace = unmerited favor).
Lordy Sakes wrote:
Dear Reply - no , that is not what I am saying. but I am saying that a child who understands that he or she is loved by God and surrounded by the love of God will also have a better understanding of his fellow man! For God SO loved the world that he gave his only son to that we all can live in eternity. I cannot think of a greater love story than that . Yes, he thought you , and you and you were worthy of his sons blood! I BELIEVE!
Lordy Sakes

Lima, OH

#22 Jan 25, 2012
i agree with how you said it better than how i do - the end result is our home with God!
I agree

Mount Vernon, OH

#23 Jan 26, 2012
I thought "wondering" raised some valid questions and had one of the most intelligent, well thought out posts I've ever seen on VW Topix! "Wondering" even stated he/she is a "believer". What is wrong with asking a few very legitimate questions?

It's absolutely TRUE! They make it sound so easy! "If you choose you can simply opt your child out of the program." But you know doing so positively would cause the student and family to be labeled names like "atheist", or who knows, maybe even "anti-American" by the extremists these days! When that is far from the truth.

I don't see the need for this "Cross Over the Hill" project! It's not like we're living out on a deserted prairie! There are ample local churchs and religious youth programs available for people to enroll their child in should they so desire! And that's the key! IF and also WHERE the parent so chooses! During after-school time! It makes me wonder too! Why is there such desperate need that we must go to these lengths to find loop holes to get around the LAWS?

Is this one of the reasons closing of all the neighborhood elementary schools was pushed? So we'd only need one "cross over the hill" location as opposed to several?

If "wondering" can't even raise a few questions without being swooped on by the religious zealots forcing this thing, what do you suppose will be the reaction if parents opt their child out?

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