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skeered

Lake Saint Louis, MO

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#1
Nov 29, 2010
 

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Obama ordered that the import of M-1 Garand and M-1 carbines be prohibited. We are talking about 60 year old 8-shot semi-auto rifles. The Obama administration stated that Americans have no need for such rifles.

The EPA, by direct order of Obama, made a move to ban all lead ammo this year and was stopped due to swift action by the NRA to put pressure on various Senators/Reps. That would have eliminated most all ammo.

Within the past month, Obama has appointed a new director for the ATF, a very anti-gun advocate who has publically called for the banning of guns. Why would Obama appoint someone as ATF director who wants to ban guns? Why would Obama appoint Eric Holder, the lawyer who agrued before the Supreme Court in 2008 against the Second Amendment in the Heller case, as Attorney General?

The anti-gun groups have been saying for the past 2 years that Obama would wait until after the 2010 elections, hoping he would gain seats. Since that didn't work out, he is now being used to execute gun bans by executive order
Former Democrat

Ozark, MO

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#2
Nov 30, 2010
 

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And you're surprised? We know that Obama is a socialist. Every major dictator in history has had to remove the citizens' ability to defend themselves in order to cement his control.
skeered

Lake Saint Louis, MO

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#3
Nov 30, 2010
 

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I suppose what disturbs me the most about Obama is his lack of authority on terror. What would you have to do to be labeled a terrorist? Maybe he does'nt want to upset his Muslim Brotherhood.

Now you have Wikileaks which has further damaged our position on foreign policy and the big O still remains complacent. What will it take before he stands up for America and holds some of these terrorists accountable.

We must secure our borders and ensure that we maintain our right to bear arms.
ozark howler

Santa Monica, CA

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#4
Nov 30, 2010
 

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i think lead bullets and fishing sinkers should be should be phased out. it is a pretty well established fact lead is bad for you. i know there is no cheap replacement presently but surely we can come up with something. otherwise i agree with pro gunners.
ozark howler

Santa Monica, CA

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#5
Nov 30, 2010
 
ohh! and you like labels? obama is a global corporatist. a socialist would not have his nose up the backside of wall street and look how he kissed up to bp. if he's gonna be takin guns he's gotta go but at least he ain't as brutal and mean to the vulnerable as most repubs..
Gun Owner

Branson, MO

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#6
Nov 30, 2010
 

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ozark howler wrote:
i think lead bullets and fishing sinkers should be should be phased out. it is a pretty well established fact lead is bad for you. i know there is no cheap replacement presently but surely we can come up with something. otherwise i agree with pro gunners.
As long as you don't get shot with them lead bullets pose no risk to public health. And frankly neither did lead shot. When the data was compiled that lead to the banning of lead shot, they missed a very important piece. Most waterfowl that were tested and found to have high lead levels in thier blood were in the Missippi flyway. And so are most lead mine tailings lakes. The lead didn't come from the shotgun shells. It comes from mining waste being stored in an irresponsible manner.
Gun Owner

Branson, MO

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#7
Nov 30, 2010
 

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I can't spell Missisippi very well but you know what I mean.
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#8
Dec 1, 2010
 

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I hate solid copper bullets. Nosler is making a fragmenting all copper bullet but it's only for varmints. Solids just don't make ethical hunters it's makes good trackers out of hunters. Lead bullets kill faster and better. Lead bullets won't travel as far`through brush either. They won't let us have armor iercing but don't s to use lead either it's about to get where we won't be able to use anything.
ozark howler

Santa Monica, CA

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#9
Dec 1, 2010
 
gun owner, one could argue that if they weren't mining lead for bullets there would be no problem with where and how to store the mining waste. also, when you shoot a squirrel for instance with lead shot all those little bb's are imbedded in the flesh. thus lead poisoning.
and you failed to address the issue of lead sinkers. do you want your kid biting on a lead sinker to squeeze it in order to make it stay on the fish line? everybody does it that don't know the danger. swallow one and you will be going to the emergency room and suffer irreversable damage.
smart ass isn't there some kinda tungston shot? i don't know squat about ammo but we can afford to lose a little on the kill power of the actual projectile what with all the other technical advances made.
now i know missouri sells lotsa lead but let's be honest. hey, china likes lead let's sell it to them!
fyi

Waynesville, MO

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#10
Dec 1, 2010
 
skeered wrote:
Obama ordered that the import of M-1 Garand and M-1 carbines be prohibited. We are talking about 60 year old 8-shot semi-auto rifles. The Obama administration stated that Americans have no need for such rifles.
The EPA, by direct order of Obama, made a move to ban all lead ammo this year and was stopped due to swift action by the NRA to put pressure on various Senators/Reps. That would have eliminated most all ammo.
Within the past month, Obama has appointed a new director for the ATF, a very anti-gun advocate who has publically called for the banning of guns. Why would Obama appoint someone as ATF director who wants to ban guns? Why would Obama appoint Eric Holder, the lawyer who agrued before the Supreme Court in 2008 against the Second Amendment in the Heller case, as Attorney General?
The anti-gun groups have been saying for the past 2 years that Obama would wait until after the 2010 elections, hoping he would gain seats. Since that didn't work out, he is now being used to execute gun bans by executive order
Old news, the importation of M1 carbines and M1 rifles by US companies has been illegal for many years. Bill Clinton banned the re-importation of M1 rifles and M1 carbines under the "sporting purposes" clause of the 1968 gun control act.

Bush Senior had previously banned the importation of foreign semi-auto milsurps. BTW:Bush Jr refused to over-turn either ban.
Rush

Lake Saint Louis, MO

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#11
Dec 1, 2010
 

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The Founding Fathers...far greater in wisdom than anything you see in office in this country now, gave us a Second Amendment for, among many good reasons, specifically so we working people could rebel against and protect ourselves against the kind of TAPE WORMS both in public office and in corporate boardrooms who are sucking the blood out of our country and subverting our Constitution....do you know why it is called the SECOND AMENDMENT?...it is because once you are stupid enough to let them take it away...ALL of your personal rights will be gone ....in a damned SECOND
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#12
Dec 1, 2010
 

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ozark howler wrote:
gun owner, one could argue that if they weren't mining lead for bullets there would be no problem with where and how to store the mining waste. also, when you shoot a squirrel for instance with lead shot all those little bb's are imbedded in the flesh. thus lead poisoning.
and you failed to address the issue of lead sinkers. do you want your kid biting on a lead sinker to squeeze it in order to make it stay on the fish line? everybody does it that don't know the danger. swallow one and you will be going to the emergency room and suffer irreversable damage.
smart ass isn't there some kinda tungston shot? i don't know squat about ammo but we can afford to lose a little on the kill power of the actual projectile what with all the other technical advances made.
now i know missouri sells lotsa lead but let's be honest. hey, china likes lead let's sell it to them!
Howler you are right about tungsten shot and they make steel shot as well for shotguns which work very well as they scatter shot all over the body. I was thinkiing more of big game and large rifles with solid copper bullets. The solids don't creat as much shock as the lead core bullets do. For deer antelope and mule deer size game the lead makes more ethical one shot kills for those not so perfect shots we are faced with as hunters. Check this out. federalpremiium.com resources then click vodeos and watch bullet breakdown. It's informative but keep in mind that they are using bear gelitan at 24 inches thick the animals we shoot are about 12 inches thick. If you notice the harder bonded bullets don't open until they are in 6 inches so into the block. The lead core opens at entrance and penertrates well.
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#13
Dec 1, 2010
 

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http://www.federalpremium.com/videoplayer/def...

Try this it may be easier
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#14
Dec 1, 2010
 

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You will still have to click on the bullet breakdown video but the link above will get you there. The most accurate test I have ever seen short of shooting anmals.
ozark howler

Santa Monica, CA

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#15
Dec 2, 2010
 
very interesting! lead would be a perfect ammo if not for it's toxicity. we've been spreading it all over the place for about 200 years i think it's bout time to find a cleaner alternative. tungsten and copper is also more expensive right?but if manufactured ona large scale w/get cheaper. you want better kill power use a hollow point and maybe coat the bullets to decrease wear on barrel lining. i know you are concerned and worried about causing undo suffering for the critter before it goes into the freezer.
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#16
Dec 2, 2010
 

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Yes the solid copper bullets even hollow points which were on the video don't work as well but if nosler can perfect thier fragmenting copper bullet I want to try it out. If the single projectile travels a complete pass through on the animal it does not effect the meat and then it goes into a tree or the ground so deep that no animal will be able to eat it. I don't believe that anyone has ever gotten lead poising from bullets there are too mant old timers still alive that shot everything they ate and are still going strong in thier later years. Lead poising comes from extensive contact from breathing lead dust from the mining facilties like you stated before. Your lungs put the lead into your body faster than eating it and passing it through the stomach. Years ago in the Roman times they drank alot from lead goblets and got lead poising often but those days are long gone. I don't believe anyone would eat lead anyway as you would surely know when you bite down on a shot from a shotgun or a bullet from a rifle and that doesn't happen often. I hunt ALOT and with lead bullets and have for years like my father and grandfather and none of us have anything but good meat on the table no lead poising here for anyone in this county that I know of. Even the workers in the lead mines don't have a problem with it as they monitor it often. I worked in the lead mines for a while is how I know a little about it and the effects on the human body. But I still want to see the copper fragmenting bullets but what would eating copper do to you? I'm there are drawbacks from no matter what we use to hunt with.
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#17
Dec 2, 2010
 

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Oh yeah Howler one more thing too the tungsten is a harder material than copper so that would be even harder to get it to kill as quickly. I think soft aluminum might work inside a soft copper jacket and it would make the rifle shoot faster and flatter? Just a thought.
ozark howler

Santa Monica, CA

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#18
Dec 3, 2010
 

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i'm no expert on lead poisoning but i know that it's effects are subtle and can easily go un noticed unless you get a megadose. for instance it can affect your brain and mental processes w/o you knowing. also, you may feel fine til you come down w/cancer. if you work ina lead mine and breath the dust you will have lead poison wether you notice anything or not. i've worked in construction from building houses to the troubleshooting and repairing the electronics on trident nuclear missiles and seen men ignore wearing rubber gloves and breathing masks and they laughed at me for doing so. most of those buddies are now dead from things like luekemia [sic] and lung cancer. yeah, they felt fine til i seen a glum look on their faces and they're whining they got spots on their livers etc.. some of these men were wealthy and otherwise intelligent. one was fine til bang! he's got lung cancer and died in six months. drove a new truck ever year. owned bouta dozen homes. he's like "whata you know? i got more stuff than you"!
anyway, is it true the feds are trying to corner and buy up the ammo market or is that even practical?
ozark howler

Santa Monica, CA

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#19
Dec 3, 2010
 
.... and i think copper might be agood ammo. not equal to lead but still good.
Smart Ass

Ellington, MO

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#20
Dec 3, 2010
 
I'm not expert on lead poisning either but I do know that when I worked underground they checked our blood lead level every four months and if they found that ant of us had higher than 5 parts per million they would make them wear a dust mask for a while and check it again and if it wasn't lower then you couldn't work underground and would either have to move to the surface crew in the lead mill or lose your job for your own safety. That doesn't seem fair to lose your job because of the lead if the person still wants to work anyway they can't for iinsurance of the company. I do know that lead can affect your body before you know it but it affects everyone differently. The main point of my last post was to question how much lead any one person actually would consume with rifle bullets going out and not leaving anything in the deer to be eaten or the squirrels and birds shot with a shotgun. I still just can't believe that rifle bullets put enough lead in the ground to effect anything. Now with the birds hunters that like geese and ducks and hunt over water I can see it causing more of a problem because the fish are in the leaded water and then caught and eaten and the water is drank by millions of people nation wide. So all in all I completely agree with the steel shot and the tungsten for shotguns but I don't believe that rifle bullets play much of a role in the whole big picture. I will look around on here and try to find a study that seperates lead from shotguns vs. lead from rifles but I really don't expect to find much because I don't know if anyone hs ever done a study on each type of gun I believe that they do the study and lump it all together with shotgun lead being about %90 percent of the study performed. Thats how the EPA and enviromentalists work they make it sound worse than it really is. I think that when the next study is performed if they do it honestly they will find that the lead in our streams and lakes is decreased by several percentage points since newer steel and tungsten has been on the market but it will take years to determine the difference as the old lead will have to pass on first and that takes several years. So the new information we are getting today vs studies done years ago will still show high content and may even be great amounts than than the first studies done but in a few more years I think it will go back down alot.

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