#116 Oct 14, 2012
Well my dear friend as I suspected you are not an Agnostic under your username you indicate you are a seeker of truth ..Compounded by your Cabbala statements makes you more of a Mystic Seeker in search for the meaning of life. Well with that being said let me just say that I consider myself a Christian but there is a big BUT here I believe the organized Christians denominations have distorted GOD. The failure to admit that God transcends religions and divine truths can be found in Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism is the greatest mistake people make. I am also a mystic however, I chose to follow the path of Jesus because he did in fact set a pattern for humanity yet this pattern has nothing to do with organized religion. This is what made Jesus a Revolutionary and what ultimately led to his death. I believe Gandhi said this best when he said I would gladly be a Christian but I havent met one yet. The biggest mistake Organized Christianity makes is to try to be superior and use the New Testament as tool for persecution. I am strongly critical of the New Testament particularly the letters of Saint Paul it is my consensus that the whole Christian message can be found within the 4 Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John particularly the Sermon on the Mount anything else is contradictory to the message of Jesus; there is even some scholars that point to Paul as being the first anti-Semite and actually planted the roots for the Holocaust.
“I am a seeker of truth ”
Since: Oct 12
Third Rock from the Sun
#117 Oct 14, 2012
You can rest assured that I am indeed agnostic . I quoted the Kabbalah in reference to your assertion on good and evil and I thought it would bring another perspective to the table.
I agree that some Christians have gravely misrepresented Christianity. Because of this gross misrepresentation ,Christianity has lost it credibility.
But the topic here is whether one believes in God or not. I am a great fan of science ,,,all of it . From zoology to archaeology from organic chemistry to astronomy. As a scientist , I have to say that need I evidence, logic, facts for faith is not enough to fill the void of the question of whether god exists or not. I must keep apologizing for these short answers , but I have a busy schedule today ,and it involves a lot of sunshine,,,
#118 Oct 14, 2012
"Allow me to first just talk about our immediate
experiences and then I will say when I'm referring to
I was sitting alone in the cold cafeteria, staring
out blankly as I begin to pick at the minimally
appetizing tidbits of Chinese stirrfry. Suddenly, I get
deep shivers and goosebumps, but not so much because
I'm cold. It's a feeling I've never quite had
before, a shimmering glimpse of reality that I must
have become so hardened to--"What am I doing here?" I
ask myself! I realize that every level of my
existence is seemingly impossible, and yet, here I am,
Have you ever had such an epiphiny of our rather
remarkable condition? It's unfortunate how we are
gradually exposed, weaned and acclamated, to our
amazing existence, by being exposed thought\out
childhood so that by the time our cognitive ability
reaches critically analytical, we're well accustomed to
living. Perhaps the bland noodles and tofu somehow
allowed me to briefly step out of the cold pool of
life and then jump back in.
Before this near life experience, I had already
concluded after much struggle that there had to be an
Intelligent Creator based on statistical evidence of
unlikely biological structured such as proteins all
ultimately leading to the cell? But in this momentary
lasting epiphiny, statistical arguments for God
solidified into diamond, but just the knowledge of my
consciousness brought me even so much closer to the
realization of God's existence than I ever have been
before or since. Noting the universe came from
nothing was a mere afterthought. On my own existence
is God's fingerprint of his existence--He's guilty
without even saying a word.
So now, although I'm not nearly as keenly aware of
the miracle of my life and existence, I nevertheless
have a good belief in God. You see, a biological design possesses a
wealth of rich information content including that
stored in the genes. Living in the information age,
we're well aware that information doesn't come from
anything simple--you can't shake up a bunch of scrable
letters and get a complete sentence. We know from common sense
that making information takes high intelligence. It
appears this is the best evidence of God. And so the very fact that information exists completely defeys all understanding
of this universe. There is no reconciliation. Not
even an infinite number of universes could explain
the information we exhibit. Every possibility would
be tried until rich information arises and a
functioning body is assembled and naturally, we would
find ourselves there. But statistically, any randomly
created functioning body would still be grossly
unsymmetric, where as we are beautiful and symmetric.
So what does it matter if we believe God exists?
We now know those often pesky internal morals, they
must have somehow been endowed from God as his belief
of right and wrong--His moral code. I often ask
myself why I have such trouble consistently doing what
I know is right. Well one good reason that comes to
mind is the lack of stiff motivation. But again after a while, any
combination of moral codes fails to provide us with an
essential purpose of life, for nothing seems terribly
And without an essential purpose, there exists an
empty void. Some try to fill it with earthly
possessions and experiences. Others become hardened to
So why does God not somehow also endow us with the
ultimate moral with the essential purpose?
But sometimes though it seems
we at least get a glimpse into the essential purpose.
When Jesus said "Forgive them Father, for they know not
what they do" Jesus was aware of the essential
The ultimate purpose becomes essential for us in
keeping the moral code."
#120 Oct 14, 2012
Thats quite an epiphany in Buddhism it may be a moment of enlighten wisdom; I have to agree with you in regards to intelligent design in fact many mystics called this force God the Evolutionary Impulse of the Universe. In fact in Islam one of the 99 names of Allah is the Evolver ..
A disbelief in God does not result in a belief in nothing; disbelief in God usually results in a belief in anything.I used to hold this fallacious mindset. My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust it pretty much mirrors your analogy. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless--I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.....
“I am a seeker of truth ”
Since: Oct 12
Third Rock from the Sun
#121 Oct 14, 2012
Whoa Whoa , wait a minute , you are now comparing the meaning of the universe with believing or not believing in God. Btw there are many creatures with no eyes i.e.. There are thousands of species that dwell at the deepest depths of the ocean that is completely void of sunlight, yet that is their world.
You asserted " A disbelief in God does not result in a belief in nothing; " and "Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning" I disagree with your statements. Atheism is not simple and in my opinion the universe has much more meaning to me because I can ponder it more effectively when I dont have religion to get in the way of logic and reason...Any simple person can grasp and understand the bible for it was written at a time when there were no schools and man was simple,,,but not everyone who can understand the bible can understand science. For example; , One can't just jump into trigonometry without first taking algebra and one can't just jump into algebra without taking basic math. Most the science community is atheist and we are concerned with super complex subjects , such as evolution, astrophysics, organic chemistry , archaeology , biology , zoology , aeronautics ,anthropology and hundreds of others of sciences ,,,we have millions of books , that fill up thousands of libraries and you Christian have all but one!!!One lousy book and then you want to compare your intellect to ours? That we are simple because we don't believe in an imaginary being concocted by man thousands of years ago ,,, what blatant audacity this is ,,,your damn right we believe in something its called the TRUTH TRUTH TRUTH ,,,
“I am a seeker of truth ”
Since: Oct 12
Third Rock from the Sun
#122 Oct 14, 2012
In good speaking, should not the mind of the speaker know the
truth of the matter about which he is to speak?
I do not know where to find in any literature, whether ancient
or modern, any adequate account of that nature with which I am
acquainted. Mythology comes nearest to it of any.
HENRY DAVID THOREAU
Mankind is poised midway between the gods and the beasts.
The main conclusion arrived at in this work, namely, that man is
descended from some lowly-organized form, will, I regret to
think, be highly distasteful to many persons. But there can
hardly be a doubt that we are descended from barbarians. The
astonishment which I felt on first seeing a party of Fuegians on
a wild and broken shore will never be forgotten by me, for the
reflection at once rushed into my mind - such were our
ancestors. These men were absolutely naked and bedaubed
with paint, their long hair was tangled, their mouths frothed in
excitement, and their expression was wild, startled, and
distrustful. They possessed hardly any arts, and, like wild
animals, lived on what they could catch; they had no
government, and were merciless to everyone not of their own
small tribe. He who has seen a savage in his native land will not
feel much shame, if forced to acknowledge that the blood of
some more humble creature flows in his veins. For my own
part, I would as soon be descended from that heroic little
monkey, who braved his dreaded enemy in order to save the
life of his keeper; or from that old baboon who, descending
from the mountains, carried away in triumph his young comrade
from a crowd of astonished dogs-as from a savage who
delights to torture his enemies, offers up bloody sacrifices,
practices infanticide without remorse, treats his wives like
slaves, knows no decency, and is haunted by the grossest
#123 Oct 14, 2012
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
Since: Feb 12
#124 Oct 14, 2012
What you are is a dumbass.puff drag.
Hey drag, hows that Uvalco (no Obama) protest going for ya?,HAHAHA. oH YEAH, have you learned the difference between elementary words such as there,their, they're,,,our are,,past passed ,,,many ,many more. You are such a dubfuk drag.Go home lil boy.
OH,,,BTW,,,I see Uvalco is still operating as usual,,,and your supporters are not there either,,,also your cmplaint to the BBB obvious has falen on deaf ears.
CAnt quit laughing at you,,
you DUMBASS. HAHAHA
#126 Oct 14, 2012
Well Zolar not to disrespect your post but what I see here is an anthropological perspective....
An atheist or agnostic philosopher may seek to explain why God does not exist. However, he is only able to argue from an intellectual standpoint. The real problem for a philosopher is that the nature of God is completely contrary to an intellectual understanding. The nature of God is consciousness; and this can only be experienced through silence, prayer and meditation. To get an understanding of God through mental reasoning alone is like a blind man trying to describe the characteristics of an elephant.
To be able to have an understanding of spiritual concepts it is necessary to follow spiritual disciplines and aspire to go beyond the domain of the mind. Yet, many philosophers wish to negate the existence of spiritual consciousness even though they have never experienced, or even tried to experience, it themselves. But, just because we have never traveled to America, doesn't mean we can claim America doesn't exist.
Now, an atheist may say, how can the existence of God be proved if the nature of God is beyond the domain of the world? This is a good point. The existence of God can never satisfactorily be proved using intellectual arguments. The existence and consciousness of God simply cannot be reduced to finite words. Any mystic who has had a true experience of God, will be able to confirm this underlying truth. However, real spirituality is not concerned with proof or convincing others. Spirituality is only concerned with our personal experience. We can prove the presence of God to ourselves and this is all that matters.
Quite often atheists seek to disprove the existence of God, through pointing out errors and deficiencies in different religions. However, this is a mistake. Religious texts are written, interpreted and practiced by humans. Some texts definitely have divine inspiration. But, they can never be a perfect reflection of God's nature. Words are by nature imperfect translations of the consciousness of God. The true religion is when a follower seeks the presence of God in himself. God cannot be judged on the behavior and teachings of religious adherents. To judge God, by judging religions is like judging a father through the actions of his children. Certainly a father seeks to mold his children, but at the end of the day they have free will to choose their own course of action. Similarly God seeks to encourage his children to lead good, divine lives. Through many prophets and spiritual masters God has tried to share the message that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. The fact that religious people rarely live up to this ideal does not mean God doesn't exist.
#128 Oct 16, 2012
"An atheist or agnostic philosopher may seek to explain why God does not exist. However, he is only able to argue from an intellectual standpoint."
Do you see what is wrong with your statement?
You've just stated that only intellectuals have the capacity to understand that there is no God. By the way spirituality may or may not be associated with God. One can be spiritual without believing in God. Your views are very narrow which is common among Christians and religious nuts.
Then you state; "The nature of God is consciousness; and this can only be experienced through silence, prayer and meditation" . Really are you serious?? Where do you get off with these inept statements. So one has to either be silent , pray or meditate to experience God consciousness??? No, No , wrong again , there are hundreds of ways to attain a higher conscious with God , you failed to mention music, drugs , sacraments, good deeds , sunshine , love,love,you failed to mention love,,,remember love ? Christians are hateful ,spiteful , vengeful just like the bible teaches . And thats the way God is portrayed in the bible. A Wrathful God who gave his only son for your sins? Wow really , who does that? Would you? Would you let your only get tortured , hung on a cross for the sins of others? You can take your bible and your beliefs and shove them all the way up your ass.
And then you idiotically state;"Well Zolar not to disrespect your post but what I see here is an anthropological perspective...." So you dont agree with anthropology? Just like a Christian to whisk away the accredited noble advancements of science,,,BTW I agree with Zolar ,,,
All you've done so far is try to explain how we intellectuals try to explain the nonexistence of God ,,,while you've offered nothing to prove otherwise. Youve admitted that you are not an intellectual which is of course obvious by your uninformed ,inane , inept rhetoric.
#129 Oct 16, 2012
God is just, you just have to have faith
#130 Oct 16, 2012
hahaha lok you spelled "fallen" and "complaint" wrong and you never use apostrophes you idiot!!You dirty, nasty, nauseating, disgusting white bastard hillbilly. All of your responses are super asinine . You are the epitome of white trash,,,
Here's a news flash for your stupid ass; NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND I MEAN NOBODY!!!!You are the dumb-ass, dumb-ass.
If I could reach through your computer monitor, I would strangle you ,,,and rid the world of your festering existence,,,what an embarrassment you are to your race. Kill yourself now, please.
#132 Oct 17, 2012
Interesting debate Someone stated there were no schools when the bible was written. actually, there were. There were scholars, and teachers, in the time Jesus was born. There were very intelligent and sophisticated people; Luke was a physician. Anyway, wanted to mention that.
#134 Oct 17, 2012
My, what hate and hostility. Those obviously do not believe in God. As a result, have chosen the dark side. Hate, violence, and evil. Living in darkness. Possibly have been abused, and lived and grown up in a dark world, void of beliefs in God. I feel sorry for you. Look beyond your lives, and see the beauty, rather than the hate and anger in the world.
#136 Oct 21, 2012
#137 Oct 21, 2012
Think I will leave this "group" somehow, it is extreme verbal abuse, in some. Certainly not on the subject any longer.
#138 Oct 22, 2012
#139 Nov 21, 2012
#140 Nov 21, 2012
#141 Oct 27, 2014
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