Helicopter Ambulance NOT worth it

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non-supporter

Utica, NY

#1 Jul 23, 2013
I did a search about comparing the cost-effectiveness of a helicopter ride vs. an 'old fashion' ambulance ride and found it is NOT worth it. There is NO greater life savings. Yup, you pay $17,000 (not all insurance will cover it) and you would have made it to the hospital anyway. Yeah, they are "non-profit" but that doesn't mean you get the service for FREE. My recommendation: "REFUSE a helicopter ambulance ride"
Stanford University says

Utica, NY

#2 Jul 23, 2013
Level 3

Since: Jul 12

Albany, NY

#4 Jul 23, 2013
non-supporter wrote:
I did a search about comparing the cost-effectiveness of a helicopter ride vs. an 'old fashion' ambulance ride and found it is NOT worth it. There is NO greater life savings. Yup, you pay $17,000 (not all insurance will cover it) and you would have made it to the hospital anyway. Yeah, they are "non-profit" but that doesn't mean you get the service for FREE. My recommendation: "REFUSE a helicopter ambulance ride"
well if your in the middle of no place and you happen to be the one thats injured then I guess it would be worth it......
Sure

Brooklyn, NY

#5 Jul 23, 2013
Emergency helicopters aren't worth the cost unless you or someone you love needs it. What an ignorant statement.
you moron

Herkimer, NY

#6 Jul 23, 2013
non-supporter wrote:
I did a search about comparing the cost-effectiveness of a helicopter ride vs. an 'old fashion' ambulance ride and found it is NOT worth it. There is NO greater life savings. Yup, you pay $17,000 (not all insurance will cover it) and you would have made it to the hospital anyway. Yeah, they are "non-profit" but that doesn't mean you get the service for FREE. My recommendation: "REFUSE a helicopter ambulance ride"
If you are so f*cked up that you need a helicopter, you aren't likely going to be conscious enough to be able to refuse. It isn't like a regular ambulance where welfare recipients call with bug bites, stubbed toes, tummy aches or a free ride to the ER to beg for some more dilaudid. Choppers are for actual emergencies.
City Millions

Chicago, IL

#7 Jul 23, 2013
Maybe the Utica Fire Department can add a helicopter ambulance to their services.... The city did just found some extra money that could be used for this!!
Jose

Utica, NY

#8 Jul 23, 2013
City Millions wrote:
Maybe the Utica Fire Department can add a helicopter ambulance to their services.... The city did just found some extra money that could be used for this!!
That will be the topic at the next UFD meeting. Which guys would be picked for that honey detail?
Conscious

Utica, NY

#10 Jul 24, 2013
Right, if you are unconscious someone makes the decision for you. You could be knocked out, but not need a helicopter ride. I'm beginning to think there is an over-zealous use just to keep the chopper here by generating income for them.
Lol

Utica, NY

#11 Jul 24, 2013
Have you seen the motley crew of degenerates and hicks that staff ambulances around here? That alone should make you beg for a chopper.
Well

New York, NY

#12 Jul 24, 2013
non-supporter wrote:
I did a search about comparing the cost-effectiveness of a helicopter ride vs. an 'old fashion' ambulance ride and found it is NOT worth it. There is NO greater life savings. Yup, you pay $17,000 (not all insurance will cover it) and you would have made it to the hospital anyway. Yeah, they are "non-profit" but that doesn't mean you get the service for FREE. My recommendation: "REFUSE a helicopter ambulance ride"
lets see some of the data you "searched"
LOL

Utica, NY

#13 Jul 24, 2013
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
In many Western countries, Helicopter Emergency Medical Services (HEMS) have become standard in the prehospital care of severely injured patients. Several studies have shown that HEMS have a positive effect on patient's outcome, although it remains unclear which specific patients benefit most from its care. The aim of this study was to assess the effect of HEMS on the outcome of a large polytraumatized (Injury Severity Score≥16) population.
METHODS:
All polytraumatized patients treated at the scene of the accident by EMS and/or HEMS and presented in the VU University Medical Center during a period of 6 years were included and retrospectively analyzed. The total population was divided into two groups according to the presence of HEMS on-scene. Prehospital, in-hospital, and outcome parameters were compared. The Trauma Injury Severity Score method was used to calculate the probability of survival.
RESULTS:
Almost 60% of all included patients (n=1073) were treated only by an EMS crew on-scene. The remaining 446 patients received additional HEMS care. Significant differences between these two groups were observed in the demographic characteristics, showing that the HEMS group was more severely injured. The predicted survival was calculated using the Trauma Injury Severity Score method, as well as the observed survival, both showing a significantly higher outcome for the EMS group (0.88 vs. 0.66% and 87.7 vs. 71.3%). However, the Z-statistic showed a significant positive difference between the predicted and the observed survival for the HEMS group (P<0.005) and no significant differences for the EMS group (P>0.1), indicating that the chance of surviving in the HEMS group was higher. Per 100 HEMS dispatches, 5.4 additional lives were saved. A correlation of the observed survival with the first measured Revised Trauma Score on-scene showed a positive effect for the HEMS group when the Revised Trauma Score reached a value of 9 or lower.
CONCLUSION:
On-scene HEMS care has a positive effect on the survival of polytraumatized patients, saving 5.4 additional lives per 100 HEMS deployments. This positive effect is especially observed in patients with abnormal vital signs (respiratory and hemodynamically). Research and revision of dispatch criteria are important to reach patients that benefit most from HEMS care.
The truth of this

Long Island City, NY

#14 Jul 24, 2013
Jose wrote:
<quoted text> That will be the topic at the next UFD meeting. Which guys would be picked for that honey detail?
None. I am all but certain that no one I have ever met that works for thie city could and would be trustworthy, intelligent enough and mature enough to keep up their pilot's certs or the service safe and running.

THAT will never ever happen. These people grapple like mental cripples with keeping their CARS running, give that one up.

Besides Air Ambulances are in overuse in the us. You have enough with the old BK117 there. It's a good safe ship and those are good safe no nonsense people.

Level 7

Since: Jan 08

Rome

#15 Jul 24, 2013
City Millions wrote:
Maybe the Utica Fire Department can add a helicopter ambulance to their services.... The city did just found some extra money that could be used for this!!
It would be a pure money-maker. That's because the city would never reveal how much they paid to buy the helicopter and equipment nor show us how much salary and overtime is needed to maintain the service. They would show only the revenue and claim that it's making money for the city.
Pat Jizinski

Utica, NY

#16 Jul 24, 2013
frankcor wrote:
<quoted text>It would be a pure money-maker. That's because the city would never reveal how much they paid to buy the helicopter and equipment nor show us how much salary and overtime is needed to maintain the service. They would show only the revenue and claim that it's making money for the city.
LOL Just like the Am-Boo-Lance service they have. All the money with no expenditures ever reported. Maybe they can get a sweet deal on a new chopper like the 1st set of city ambulances they bought and financed over 20 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!
Utica Helicopter

Chicago, IL

#17 Jul 24, 2013
Well wrote:
<quoted text>lets see some of the data you "searched"
Costs range from $12,000 to $25,000 per flight
Every year, an estimated 550,000 patients in the United States are flown by medical helicopters and small airplanes for emergencies that include car wrecks, hiking accidents and heart attacks, according to the Association of Air Medical Services.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34419018/ns/health-...
Stats guy

Utica, NY

#18 Jul 24, 2013
Love the stats provided --- but no source. Anyone - any group (including HEMS) can create stats in their favor. The ONLY advantage of HEMS would be a time factor -- unless you want to 'try' to tell me that the local ambulances don't have qualified people.

For STATS, I would like to see the 'LOCAL' length of time it takes for a driven vehicle (already on scene since they are normally dispatched when 911 is notified)to get to the closest hospital vs. the wait time for the HEMS to be dispatched, patient loaded and then arrival to the closest hospital. If the doctors at the closest hospital warrants an HEMS transport to a regional/larger hospital, then go with it!

When a local ambulance is on scene and then the give the "patient" to the HEMS 'just' because they "had arrived" is crazy. Not all, but too many situations occur when the HEMS delivers and charges the "patient" unnecessary fees for the unnecessary ride when the driven ambulance would have sufficed.

When you have to dish out the cash -- as too many have -- for unnecessary HEMS, then your opinions are valued.
LOL wrote:
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
In many Western countries, Helicopter Emergency Medical Services (HEMS) have become standard in the prehospital care of severely injured patients. Several studies have shown that HEMS have a positive effect on patient's outcome, although it remains unclear which specific patients benefit most from its care. The aim of this study was to assess the effect of HEMS on the outcome of a large polytraumatized (Injury Severity Score&#8805;16) population.
METHODS:
All polytraumatized patients treated at the scene of the accident by EMS and/or HEMS and presented in the VU University Medical Center during a period of 6 years were included and retrospectively analyzed. The total population was divided into two groups according to the presence of HEMS on-scene. Prehospital, in-hospital, and outcome parameters were compared. The Trauma Injury Severity Score method was used to calculate the probability of survival.
RESULTS:
Almost 60% of all included patients (n=1073) were treated only by an EMS crew on-scene. The remaining 446 patients received additional HEMS care. Significant differences between these two groups were observed in the demographic characteristics, showing that the HEMS group was more severely injured. The predicted survival was calculated using the Trauma Injury Severity Score method, as well as the observed survival, both showing a significantly higher outcome for the EMS group (0.88 vs. 0.66% and 87.7 vs. 71.3%). However, the Z-statistic showed a significant positive difference between the predicted and the observed survival for the HEMS group (P<0.005) and no significant differences for the EMS group (P>0.1), indicating that the chance of surviving in the HEMS group was higher. Per 100 HEMS dispatches, 5.4 additional lives were saved. A correlation of the observed survival with the first measured Revised Trauma Score on-scene showed a positive effect for the HEMS group when the Revised Trauma Score reached a value of 9 or lower.
CONCLUSION:
On-scene HEMS care has a positive effect on the survival of polytraumatized patients, saving 5.4 additional lives per 100 HEMS deployments. This positive effect is especially observed in patients with abnormal vital signs (respiratory and hemodynamically). Research and revision of dispatch criteria are important to reach patients that benefit most from HEMS care.
Devils Advocate

Utica, NY

#19 Jul 24, 2013
There are criteria that MUST be met in order for one to call for heli transport. The federal government, state government and health dept oversee the functions of all emergency medical services/operations to ensure protocols are observed in order to maximize or minimize services based on the most recent statistics dictating necessity. In all instances heli transport is put on standby until an advanced level care provider in direct contact with an MD in an emergency dept determine whether or not heli transport is appropriate/necessary. Learn the facts before you mouth off, you obviously dont have any clue of the logistics determining heli transport. In stating nonsense you have made yourself look like an uneducated loud mouth.
Engine 5

Utica, NY

#20 Jul 24, 2013
Bob Mancuso, UFD will volunteer as a paramedic on a helicopter.
UPD to buy

New York, NY

#21 Jul 25, 2013
the air ambulance.

They can call it THE FLYING ARMADILLO.
Funny

Long Island City, NY

#23 Jul 25, 2013
Devils Advocate wrote:
There are criteria that MUST be met in order for one to call for heli transport. The federal government, state government and health dept oversee the functions of all emergency medical services/operations to ensure protocols are observed in order to maximize or minimize services based on the most recent statistics dictating necessity. In all instances heli transport is put on standby until an advanced level care provider in direct contact with an MD in an emergency dept determine whether or not heli transport is appropriate/necessary. Learn the facts before you mouth off, you obviously dont have any clue of the logistics determining heli transport. In stating nonsense you have made yourself look like an uneducated loud mouth.
Ummm actually, the state has NO oversight of FOs that's called the FAA.

"Learn the facts before you mouth off, you obviously dont have any clue of the logistics determining heli transport. In stating nonsense you have made yourself look like an uneducated loud mouth."

And you "have made yourself look like an uneducated loud upstate utican".

For the rest of you, Bell Helicopter Textron has stats and yes they are overused.

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