Utica teachers not too wise..

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the skippy

Waltham, MA

#1 Nov 28, 2012
They agreed to a contract with no raise, horrible accountability measures that the district still doesn't know how to implement, and cries of poverty to save a few teachers only to have at least 75 laid off at ever end of this school year. Smart choice listening to that type off union leadership. Maybe if Larry actually read the contact he accepted, things could have been different.
Truth

Utica, NY

#2 Nov 28, 2012
They still get step increases.

They still get pension contributions.

They still have a better healthcare plan(while working and in retirement) than most private sector employees.

They still only work 180-190 days a year when the rest of the working world on average works 260 days a year.

It still takes an act of congress to fire the incompetent with all of the protections they have.

Maybe if teacher unions weren't so greedy we'd all be better of in the pocketbook.
vito

Utica, NY

#4 Nov 28, 2012
hey truth dont knock it unless you wear those shoes. If you think its so great sell your food stamps,t pay for a college education(if you get accepted) an become a teacher. Othewise shut your lowlife ass picking mouth. As for union leadership,there is none Larry cust is like crut. He needs t go . Custodero is the biggest fraud in the union. He is being investigated by union officials from nusut. His underhanded deals have caught up with him. Cant wait til it goes public. Lets just say much misrepresentation on his part. BY BY custy
Truth

Utica, NY

#5 Nov 29, 2012
vito wrote:
hey truth dont knock it unless you wear those shoes. If you think its so great sell your food stamps,t pay for a college education(if you get accepted) an become a teacher. Othewise shut your lowlife ass picking mouth. As for union leadership,there is none Larry cust is like crut. He needs t go . Custodero is the biggest fraud in the union. He is being investigated by union officials from nusut. His underhanded deals have caught up with him. Cant wait til it goes public. Lets just say much misrepresentation on his part. BY BY custy
Don't try to pretend that teachers have it any harder than anyone else.

Second, I do not now nor have I ever received food stamps. I am one of those in the 50% that pays federal tax and pays for such things. I'm also one of those in the private sector who is tired of being taken advantage of in terms of teacher compensation and benefits. If you are a teacher I would suggest you enjoy yourself now. Your power over taxpayers is coming to an end. Your abuses are being exposed and the taxpayer well is running dry.

Lastly, a sure sign of a weak position in any debate is name calling. You've mastered that. You have no facts that back your opinion to present so you lash out with filth and direct it toward those with an opposing opinion. That's a great example to set.
Truth

Utica, NY

#6 Nov 29, 2012
vito wrote:
hey truth dont knock it unless you wear those shoes. If you think its so great sell your food stamps,t pay for a college education(if you get accepted) an become a teacher. Othewise shut your lowlife ass picking mouth. As for union leadership,there is none Larry cust is like crut. He needs t go . Custodero is the biggest fraud in the union. He is being investigated by union officials from nusut. His underhanded deals have caught up with him. Cant wait til it goes public. Lets just say much misrepresentation on his part. BY BY custy
When it was time for me to make a decision about what education to get and what career choice to make being a teacher wasn't on the list. For many it is. That is a choice and making that choice doesn't by default entitle those who choose it anything more than anyone else who works for a living.

Rather than name calling why not pick apart the list I posted previously? It's easier to call me names though. Is there anything that I posted that isn't true?
wow

United States

#7 Nov 29, 2012
Some big changes might happen in UCSD.
In fact

Brimfield, MA

#8 Nov 29, 2012
Truth wrote:
They still get step increases.
They still get pension contributions.
They still have a better healthcare plan(while working and in retirement) than most private sector employees.
They still only work 180-190 days a year when the rest of the working world on average works 260 days a year.
It still takes an act of congress to fire the incompetent with all of the protections they have.

Maybe if teacher unions weren't so greedy we'd all be better of in the pocketbook.
Your points are not fully truthful.
Some, not all, teachers get step increases.
With very few exception, all contribute something to their pension. New teachers must contribute more than old.

Healthcare plan is decent. I pay around $400/ mo for a family plan. I am grateful for that.

On average, no one works 260 days a year. If you had an entry level job at a bank, you would get 2weeks vacation, 11-13 holidays, and every weekend off thereby working 240 days. You would have more time off with seniority and better positions, usually a function of your education.
A nurse can work 150 long days and make significantly more money than a teacher who will have more education.

We have lost many positions. Classes over 30 students are difficult to manage. Our rooms were never designed to accommodate more than that. Most people could not handle that job with those conditions. It's not good for kids. Most teachers are hardworking and caring and do their best. Not all, but most.

My union gives freely to this community. I don't think, as a whole, we are at all greedy. We raise money for scholarships, charities, families in need, the sick, and to help wherever we can. You have no idea how much we give to student fundraising and supplying our classrooms. We also give in terms of uncompensated time and countless other ways.

You have a right to your opinion, but please check your points for accuracy before you express them. Thank you.

Just a teacher
youve been warned

Utica, NY

#9 Nov 29, 2012
google, parent trigger law nys. very interesting option.
america

Utica, NY

#10 Nov 29, 2012
I don't get any of you people knocking teachers???? They are educating our children but yet you want to pay them a shit wage w shit benefits???? Our children our are future but you selfish assholes want to short change the kids to pay $15 less on your taxes??? Don't get it?? Teachers pay for their retirement, so what's the problem? You idiots loved your summer vacation when u were kids... Do u want kids to go to school all yr? Teachers do not get paid when they are not working... What's the beef??? Take 2 months off from your private sector job each summer.... Btw, every teacher has a masters degree which they paid for... Where is yours?
hey truth

Utica, NY

#12 Nov 29, 2012
first of all at least 50% of tose teachers do not get a salary step jump. Once a teacher reaches the 15th year they get frozen for five years,again after twenty years,then again til their 26th year and lastly after 30th year. Do your homework before you start posting your untruths. By the way teachers also pay taxes.If you want to know how much they make and what their other entitlements are ask first.
website

Utica, NY

#13 Nov 29, 2012
Truth

Utica, NY

#14 Nov 30, 2012
In fact wrote:
<quoted text>
Your points are not fully truthful.
Some, not all, teachers get step increases.
With very few exception, all contribute something to their pension. New teachers must contribute more than old.
Healthcare plan is decent. I pay around $400/ mo for a family plan. I am grateful for that.
On average, no one works 260 days a year. If you had an entry level job at a bank, you would get 2weeks vacation, 11-13 holidays, and every weekend off thereby working 240 days. You would have more time off with seniority and better positions, usually a function of your education.
A nurse can work 150 long days and make significantly more money than a teacher who will have more education.
We have lost many positions. Classes over 30 students are difficult to manage. Our rooms were never designed to accommodate more than that. Most people could not handle that job with those conditions. It's not good for kids. Most teachers are hardworking and caring and do their best. Not all, but most.
My union gives freely to this community. I don't think, as a whole, we are at all greedy. We raise money for scholarships, charities, families in need, the sick, and to help wherever we can. You have no idea how much we give to student fundraising and supplying our classrooms. We also give in terms of uncompensated time and countless other ways.
You have a right to your opinion, but please check your points for accuracy before you express them. Thank you.
Just a teacher
Most teachers, not just some, get the step increases. It's almost universal. Most don't realize that automatic step increases are in addition to, and many times equal to, negotiated raises.

The important number in healthcare is not the dollar amount but the percentage the employee contributes compared to what the employer(taxpayers) contribute. In public education, as with much of the public sector, the employer(taxpayer) contributes more on average than employers in the private sector.

You can try to spin the work year any way you like but in the private sector 2080 hours is accepted as one man(woman) year. 2080 divided by an 8 hour work day is 260 days. Unless you haven't been paying attention (and why would you? you are less affected by this than most) it is an employers market right now and many employers are cutting back on what they offer new hires. That includes vacation and other paid time off like President's Day, Veteran's Day..... The school year is 180-190 days with summers off and other lengthy breaks during the course of the year. Teachers earn a yearly salary for less than the accepted man(woman) year definition. If we were to dump the antiquated school calander that was originally designed to allow children summers off to help on the family farm in favor of a year-round schedule, I'm sure that teachers would scream to high heaven for more compensation.

Tger is a line in the movie "The Outlaw Josey Whales" where Fletcher says: "Don't pi** down my back and tell me it's raining" and that is exactly what I think of what you've posted.
Truth

Utica, NY

#15 Nov 30, 2012
hey truth wrote:
first of all at least 50% of tose teachers do not get a salary step jump. Once a teacher reaches the 15th year they get frozen for five years,again after twenty years,then again til their 26th year and lastly after 30th year. Do your homework before you start posting your untruths. By the way teachers also pay taxes.If you want to know how much they make and what their other entitlements are ask first.
Step increases are on top of negotiated salary increases. They are automatic and not based on performance. That is not something you see too much in private sector employment yet you appear to see it as the norm. Your 50% number is not accurate. It's much higher especially among younger teachers begiining their career and older teachers backloading the end of their carres to boost the pension benefit. These step increases are something often lost or ignored when talking about wage freeze concessions made by the teacher unions. The step remains regardless. It's a game with very little transparency and is being facilitated by Boards of Education who are elected supposedly for the purpose of protecting and furthering the interests of the people who elected them. The problem is that many of them come from the same world you do and see these actions as normal just like you do. I remember seeing a quote from a well known liberal Democrat who said something like "I don't know how George W Bush could have been elected president. I don't know anyone who voted for him or would vote for him". It's like that in education.

Teachers as well as all employed in the public sector do pay taxes. Apply common sense though. The money that teachers and all others in the public sector earn and use to pay taxes comes from taxes collected by various means. The flow of money is circular in that system with no money coming from outside the circle. If the entire economy was made up of people who pay their taxes using money that at its' root came from tax money, the economy would collapse. There wouldn't be enough money. The money that pays for public sector employement comes from the private sector. How is it then that public sector employees feel they are entitled to compensation and benefits that exceed what is offered in the private sector?
Truth

Utica, NY

#16 Nov 30, 2012
america wrote:
I don't get any of you people knocking teachers???? They are educating our children but yet you want to pay them a shit wage w shit benefits???? Our children our are future but you selfish assholes want to short change the kids to pay $15 less on your taxes??? Don't get it?? Teachers pay for their retirement, so what's the problem? You idiots loved your summer vacation when u were kids... Do u want kids to go to school all yr? Teachers do not get paid when they are not working... What's the beef??? Take 2 months off from your private sector job each summer.... Btw, every teacher has a masters degree which they paid for... Where is yours?
Teachers compensation should be based on a couple of things.
1) The number of applicants qualified to do the job. That includes education and experience.

2)Once employed compensation (increases)should be based on performance. Teacher unions are against standardized testing because it establishes a somewhat objective measure of performance. That exposes failures in the system and incompetence where it exists. God forbid we have that.

3) There should be no union protection for incompetence. The system in the US is failing. This is witnessed by achievement levels when compared with other countries around the word. We used to lead the way. Now we are an "also ran". When you look at a timeline, the decline corrsponds exactly with the granting of teachers rights to collective bargaining and the drug culture of the 1960's that spawned the current liberal views of those in education today.

To answer your question, I do not have a master's degree. The carrer path I chose does not require it and it would not for the most part increase earning potential. Hard work, continuing education and attention to detail is what works in the field I am in. The key concept you need to accept here is choice. Those who choose teaching know what the requirements are up front just like I did when I made my choice. What that means is that you have no right to lord that over anyone after the fact. I also know that it is a very small percentage of teachers who paid for their masters 100% without any subsidy including grants and taxpayer supported low interest student loans.
the skippy

Boston, MA

#17 Nov 30, 2012
Utica teachers have not had raises in at least 5 years. Yet, administrators took raises before agreeing to a freeze. Brucie demanded wage freezes to save jobs and the union caved. Now, we are at a point that will be worse than last year. I'm stuck at my salary for 5 years. No raise, no step, and increased costs if health insurance. Stop making it seem like teachers have it easy. I heard a school had to do a fundraiser just to get supplies due to a spending freeze. Pretty pathetic. We need to take a stand and get rid of the current union leadership. Christ, Larry admitted he didnt read the whole contract and the district put through stuff in that wasn't agreed to. Larry dropped the ball and signed without doing his due dilligence. Either way, teachers do have a good job with good benefits. However, come into a clarion for a few weeks and see everything that they have to do before criticizing.

Level 7

Since: Jan 08

Rome

#18 Nov 30, 2012
Truth wrote:
Rather than name calling why not pick apart the list I posted previously? It's easier to call me names though. Is there anything that I posted that isn't true?
I think your list was pretty realistic, however this point may be an exaggeration:

"It still takes an act of congress to fire the incompetent with all of the protections they have."

Tenure only requires that teachers can be terminated only if the administration follows due process. I believe most complaints about the difficulty of firing teachers with tenure come from lazy superintendents and school boad members who don't hold their superintendents accountable.

Tenured teachers CAN be fired. And once a district has fired a few teachrs for cause, the process gets a lot easier. Bad teachers can see the writing on the wall and move along on their own accord.
Truth

Utica, NY

#23 Nov 30, 2012
frankcor wrote:
<quoted text>
I think your list was pretty realistic, however this point may be an exaggeration:
"It still takes an act of congress to fire the incompetent with all of the protections they have."
Tenure only requires that teachers can be terminated only if the administration follows due process. I believe most complaints about the difficulty of firing teachers with tenure come from lazy superintendents and school boad members who don't hold their superintendents accountable.
Tenured teachers CAN be fired. And once a district has fired a few teachrs for cause, the process gets a lot easier. Bad teachers can see the writing on the wall and move along on their own accord.
It was an exageration, a sarcastic exageration. Teachers can be fired but there is a hitch. With the union protection in place in most districts the process for firing a teacher, even for blatant misconduct, can be dragged out for a very long time. I read an article ine the Albany newspaper not long ago that said it takes on average 500+ days to fire a union teacher in districts outside New York City. In New York City as many as 700 teachers each day report to what are called "rubber rooms" and are paid for not teaching while the process runs its'course. In California they call it "the dance of the lemons". The choices are few. Either the district can keep a bad or incompetent teacher in front of students for that time or pay them to not work. Both are damaging and this is just another of the benefits that this group of public sector union employees enjoys.
true

Utica, NY

#24 Nov 30, 2012
Otherwise teachers would be more responsibile and effective. They know that no one can touch them, so they just don't care about the kids or teaching.
dor

New Hartford, NY

#25 Dec 1, 2012
the skippy wrote:
Utica teachers have not had raises in at least 5 years. Yet, administrators took raises before agreeing to a freeze. Brucie demanded wage freezes to save jobs and the union caved. Now, we are at a point that will be worse than last year. I'm stuck at my salary for 5 years. No raise, no step, and increased costs if health insurance. Stop making it seem like teachers have it easy. I heard a school had to do a fundraiser just to get supplies due to a spending freeze. Pretty pathetic. We need to take a stand and get rid of the current union leadership. Christ, Larry admitted he didnt read the whole contract and the district put through stuff in that wasn't agreed to. Larry dropped the ball and signed without doing his due dilligence. Either way, teachers do have a good job with good benefits. However, come into a clarion for a few weeks and see everything that they have to do before criticizing.
Oh no... No raise for 5 years? Welcome to the real world acehole.
walk a mile

Syracuse, NY

#26 Dec 1, 2012
come on down and walk a mile in a teachers shoes for a WEEK (if you can last that long )...parents that find it easier to complain than to help improve the childrn ....students who cannot or barely can speak english ...over crowded under funded school buildings ...disrespectful students who take a cue from hearing teachers are nothing but lazy greedy trah ...it goes on and on ...by the way ...ive taught over 25 yrs in utica.. BY CHOICE ..i love the kids and the city ...i could have had it easier and made more in a lot of other places ..im not complaining just to set the record ...ivce taught over 25 yrs i make about 70k a yr after 25 yrs..i havent had a pay raise in the last 5 yrs ..not one penny ...and i wont have one for 3 more yrs ...thats almost a decade without ANY increase in pay...so if you hate teachers that up to you but dont say how easy we have it or how we all make 100k a yr ..it just isnt so......... a few of my college friends ( who i had to help GET through college )went into the private sector ..all now were able to retire all made MUCH more money than i do .....i dont hate them im doing what i love

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