Flames keeping AHL team in Abbotsford
NoProHockey

Gouverneur, NY

#106 Apr 24, 2013
Wboro And COs wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Vancouver has zero interst in moving their team to the east.
Actually no, Vancouver has looked into eastern cities, one of which being Utica. But I can assure you all with utmost certain confidence that the Utica Aud will not be the home of an AHL team for the 2013-2014 season(don't know why this hasn't been announced to the public yet, but it's a fact)
but I can tell you the group trying to bring the AHL back to Utica are already hard at work to secure something for the 2014-15 season. Calgary is staying in Abbotsford, and Vancouver is no longer interested in Utica. I know this for SURE, but at the moment, can't drop any names... Just dead it guys, unfortunately, and sooooo sad to say, It's not gonna happen this year... All we can do is wish for the 2014/2015season that's in the "possible" works...
Your Reality Check

Utica, NY

#108 Apr 24, 2013
NoProHockey wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually no, Vancouver has looked into eastern cities, one of which being Utica. But I can assure you all with utmost certain confidence that the Utica Aud will not be the home of an AHL team for the 2013-2014 season(don't know why this hasn't been announced to the public yet, but it's a fact)
but I can tell you the group trying to bring the AHL back to Utica are already hard at work to secure something for the 2014-15 season. Calgary is staying in Abbotsford, and Vancouver is no longer interested in Utica. I know this for SURE, but at the moment, can't drop any names... Just dead it guys, unfortunately, and sooooo sad to say, It's not gonna happen this year... All we can do is wish for the 2014/2015season that's in the "possible" works...
Definitely seems a tad bit more plausible than the Calgary/Vancouver debacle that Don Laible started with his foolish "announcement" of a 10-year deal.

The argument as to upgrading the Auditorium to AHL standards should be a good one if taxpayer money is going to be used.
Truth

Utica, NY

#109 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro Is For Retards wrote:
<quoted text>
...and up until two days ago the flames and the city of abbotsford denied there were any talks. Just stay tuned.
No one ever denied there were talks. Even early reports said that there was a group from Utica interested in the team. What they denied was that there was some behind the scenes signed deal.
Truth

Utica, NY

#110 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro Is For Retards wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't know. I guess exploring their options if it does fall apart. I still believe aqulini is the type of guy who sets his sites on something and will not stop until he gets what he wants. Google him. He's an interesting guy and a very shrewd business guy. Relentless. I just hope the leak by the OD didn't hurt this which it may have especially with the work that's already been done to the aud. I still think if calgary and/or abbotsford doesn't budge aqulini will stick his team in chilliwack and shove it right up the flames asses.
Regardless. Even if by some chance he is able to buy the sports complex from Abbotsford that doesn't mean the Heat will locate in Utica. Sounds like Peoria has a larger, more AHL appropriate venue available and is lobbying for a team. I've said it more than once. There are a lot of moving parts here that are all interconnected. Each depends on the success of all the others and from the reporting in the Vancouver newspaper, nothing is for sure.

The work already done at the Aud was replacement seating and other things that could be considered normal maintenance. It had nothing to do with bringing a hockey team. In fact seating capacity was lost during this effort.
Truth

Utica, NY

#111 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro And COs wrote:
For the record the taxpayers aren't subsidizing the team to the tune of millions of Canadian dollars per year.
Wrong!

"The Heat have six more years remaining on their 10-year lease at the AESC with the city which guarantees the team $5.7 million in annual revenue.
Abbotsford taxpayers covered a $1.76 million revenue shortfall last season. The 2011/12 shortfall followed a payout of $1,305,511 for the 2010/11 season and $450,637 in the teamís inaugural 2009/2010 year."

Taken from:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/04/22/mone...

This is just another in a long list of reasons that the taxpayers of this area shouldn't fall for this scheme. They would bring that same baggage here. One has to ask in why on earth the Heat would walk out on a deal like that. The only thing I can come up with is if they got a better deal elsewhere. Should the taxpayers of this region be saddled with a deal better than the one the Heat has with their current host city? Obviously not.
Chris L

Albany, NY

#112 Apr 25, 2013
Prisons and Forts wrote:
<quoted text>
PA has zero to do with anything.
You are not in connect with the AHL leadership if you can't figure out who Pa is. That makes you an outsider who is merely a wind bag and blow hard.
Truth

Utica, NY

#113 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro Is For Retards wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't know. I guess exploring their options if it does fall apart. I still believe aqulini is the type of guy who sets his sites on something and will not stop until he gets what he wants. Google him. He's an interesting guy and a very shrewd business guy. Relentless. I just hope the leak by the OD didn't hurt this which it may have especially with the work that's already been done to the aud. I still think if calgary and/or abbotsford doesn't budge aqulini will stick his team in chilliwack and shove it right up the flames asses.
This post sounds like you are setting yourself up with an excuse if all of your predictions don't come true. You did say that a signed and sealed deal was in place. Are you backing off that now?

Just for the sake of conversation, even if Aqulinni does get the city of Abbotsford to sell him the sports complex and he boots the Heat in favor of the Canucks farm team, that still leaves Peoria as well as other cities in search of a team. Why wouldn't the Heat opt for Peoria with their larger, AHL ready venue or better yet Seattle which is much closer to Calgary?
Wboro And COs

Albany, NY

#114 Apr 25, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Regardless. Even if by some chance he is able to buy the sports complex from Abbotsford that doesn't mean the Heat will locate in Utica. Sounds like Peoria has a larger, more AHL appropriate venue available and is lobbying for a team. I've said it more than once. There are a lot of moving parts here that are all interconnected. Each depends on the success of all the others and from the reporting in the Vancouver newspaper, nothing is for sure.
The work already done at the Aud was replacement seating and other things that could be considered normal maintenance. It had nothing to do with bringing a hockey team. In fact seating capacity was lost during this effort.
Peoria doesn't accomplish what the flames want to do when they move.
Wboro And COs

Albany, NY

#115 Apr 25, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
This post sounds like you are setting yourself up with an excuse if all of your predictions don't come true. You did say that a signed and sealed deal was in place. Are you backing off that now?
Just for the sake of conversation, even if Aqulinni does get the city of Abbotsford to sell him the sports complex and he boots the Heat in favor of the Canucks farm team, that still leaves Peoria as well as other cities in search of a team. Why wouldn't the Heat opt for Peoria with their larger, AHL ready venue or better yet Seattle which is much closer to Calgary?
Quite simply because the ahl is not going west.
RASH ALERT

Gouverneur, NY

#116 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro And COs wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite simply because the ahl is not going west.
WARNING: Cliffy the Fat Rash is posting here. To continue will expose you to the world's biggest loser and Rash - Cliffy the Fat Rash slob.
Wboro And COs

Albany, NY

#117 Apr 25, 2013
RASH ALERT wrote:
<quoted text>
WARNING: Cliffy the Fat Rash is posting here. To continue will expose you to the world's biggest loser and Rash - Cliffy the Fat Rash slob.
Stalker
RASH ALERT

Gouverneur, NY

#118 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro And COs wrote:
<quoted text>
Stalker
WARNING: Cliffy the Fat Rash is posting here. To continue will expose you to the world's biggest loser and Rash - Cliffy the Fat Rash slob.
MOVE ON ALREADY

New Hartford, NY

#119 Apr 25, 2013
NoProHockey wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually no, Vancouver has looked into eastern cities, one of which being Utica. But I can assure you all with utmost certain confidence that the Utica Aud will not be the home of an AHL team for the 2013-2014 season(don't know why this hasn't been announced to the public yet, but it's a fact)
but I can tell you the group trying to bring the AHL back to Utica are already hard at work to secure something for the 2014-15 season. Calgary is staying in Abbotsford, and Vancouver is no longer interested in Utica. I know this for SURE, but at the moment, can't drop any names... Just dead it guys, unfortunately, and sooooo sad to say, It's not gonna happen this year... All we can do is wish for the 2014/2015season that's in the "possible" works...
Agreed.
Wboro Trash Is A Stalker

Albany, NY

#120 Apr 25, 2013
MOVE ON ALREADY wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed.
I choose to disagree.
Truth

Utica, NY

#121 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro And COs wrote:
<quoted text>
Peoria doesn't accomplish what the flames want to do when they move.
What is it they want to accomplish? Make money?

How do they do that moving to a smaller venue and leaving behind a deal that allows them to break even regardless of attendance or performance? Doesn't make sense.

From what I've read the Heat were 28th out of 30 in attendance this season with an average crowd of around 3800. Even at 3800 a game they lost millions over the first 4 years of the contract with Abbotsford. Millions that were made up by taxpayers there. The Aud capacity is just barely more than that. So what that means is they would need to sell out every home game just to break even with what they've done in Abbotsford over the past four years. I don't get that part of this. A reduction in travel expenses isn't going to make up the kind of deficits they are running now. Initially they'd get a little bump from merchandise but that would level off quickly. I don't see it as a good deal for anyone, especially the taxpayers here or in Abbotsford.
Wboro Trash Is A Stalker

Albany, NY

#122 Apr 25, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
What is it they want to accomplish? Make money?
How do they do that moving to a smaller venue and leaving behind a deal that allows them to break even regardless of attendance or performance? Doesn't make sense.
From what I've read the Heat were 28th out of 30 in attendance this season with an average crowd of around 3800. Even at 3800 a game they lost millions over the first 4 years of the contract with Abbotsford. Millions that were made up by taxpayers there. The Aud capacity is just barely more than that. So what that means is they would need to sell out every home game just to break even with what they've done in Abbotsford over the past four years. I don't get that part of this. A reduction in travel expenses isn't going to make up the kind of deficits they are running now. Initially they'd get a little bump from merchandise but that would level off quickly. I don't see it as a good deal for anyone, especially the taxpayers here or in Abbotsford.
No nhl team expects to make money with their affiliate team. It's the exact opposite actually. They all lose money. It's a cost. A team in utica provides probably the easiest and cheapest travel costs of any location in the league. The location has a lot more going for it than people give it credit for.
Truth

Utica, NY

#123 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro Trash Is A Stalker wrote:
<quoted text>
No nhl team expects to make money with their affiliate team. It's the exact opposite actually. They all lose money. It's a cost. A team in utica provides probably the easiest and cheapest travel costs of any location in the league. The location has a lot more going for it than people give it credit for.
But, the Heat has 6 years remaining on a 10 year deal that virtually guarantees break even. If all AHL teams are expected by their owners to lose money then break even sounds like a really good deal especially when the historic losses are in the millions of dollars. Utica is only a desirable deal if they get a better deal than they have. One account said the talks between Abbotsford and the Canucks broke down because they couldn't agree on who was going to pay off the Heat. That pay off seems like it was key in all of this.

In a previous post you said that the private side of the Heat ownership wants to make the move so they can make money. Now you say that all AHL clubs are expected to lose money. Which is it? I'm getting dizzy trying to keep up with your explanations. Your stroy changes every time you post.

Have you accepted the fact that there will be no AHL hockey at the AUD for the 2013-14 season?
Truth

Utica, NY

#124 Apr 25, 2013
Wboro Trash Is A Stalker wrote:
<quoted text>
No nhl team expects to make money with their affiliate team. It's the exact opposite actually. They all lose money. It's a cost. A team in utica provides probably the easiest and cheapest travel costs of any location in the league. The location has a lot more going for it than people give it credit for.
This is from one of your previous posts:

"The private ownership portion of the heat I'm sure wants to leave as they are making zero money on their investment. Sure their losses are covered by the taxpayers but people don't invest money to make zero profit."

If all AHL teams lose money then how can any investor expect more than making zero on their investment?
Forts and Prisons

Albany, NY

#125 Apr 25, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
This is from one of your previous posts:
"The private ownership portion of the heat I'm sure wants to leave as they are making zero money on their investment. Sure their losses are covered by the taxpayers but people don't invest money to make zero profit."
If all AHL teams lose money then how can any investor expect more than making zero on their investment?
I guess I should rephrase that they are losers for the parent team.
Truth

Utica, NY

#126 Apr 25, 2013
Forts and Prisons wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I should rephrase that they are losers for the parent team.
If they lose money they lose money for everyone.

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