Democrats want to shut govt down

Level 7

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#429 Oct 30, 2013
I think I've finally figured out the Tea Party: they didn't want a government shutdown, even though they were on-record saying they did, even though they originally took the position that they would not support ANY spending measure unless it defunded Obamacare, and then, after that didn't work, would only fund parts of the government, necessarily meaning that other parts of the government would have to be shut down.

The Tea Party wanted to default on the national debt, causing a financial catastrophe, because they are afraid an economic problem may develop decades from now. They are worried about deficits being at "unprecedented" levels even though they are at the same percentage of GDP as existed under their favorite all time President. They worry about our national debt even though we've had a national debt for almost 200 consecutive years. They worry our national debt is again at an "unprecedented" level even though as a percentage of GDP, it's not even close.

They claim to worry about future deficits, but propose cuts to programs which fail to address what everyone knows is the driver of those predicted deficits. And finally, they claim to be so concerned about our fiscal health, but they never have seen a tax cut they didn't like. Unless that tax cut helps poor people.

In other words, they are lunatics who have no idea what the f.ck they are talking about. The good news is they are about as popular as head lice.
Truth

Utica, NY

#430 Oct 31, 2013
Truth Dig wrote:
I think I've finally figured out the Tea Party: they didn't want a government shutdown, even though they were on-record saying they did, even though they originally took the position that they would not support ANY spending measure unless it defunded Obamacare, and then, after that didn't work, would only fund parts of the government, necessarily meaning that other parts of the government would have to be shut down.
The Tea Party wanted to default on the national debt, causing a financial catastrophe, because they are afraid an economic problem may develop decades from now. They are worried about deficits being at "unprecedented" levels even though they are at the same percentage of GDP as existed under their favorite all time President. They worry about our national debt even though we've had a national debt for almost 200 consecutive years. They worry our national debt is again at an "unprecedented" level even though as a percentage of GDP, it's not even close.
They claim to worry about future deficits, but propose cuts to programs which fail to address what everyone knows is the driver of those predicted deficits. And finally, they claim to be so concerned about our fiscal health, but they never have seen a tax cut they didn't like. Unless that tax cut helps poor people.
In other words, they are lunatics who have no idea what the f.ck they are talking about. The good news is they are about as popular as head lice.
My guess is that you didn't do very well with reading comprehension, history or economics in school.

You can disagree with my assessment all you want. You can call the Tea Party adherents names if you want. What will finally bring the truth home for everyone is simple math. We are on an unsustainable trajectory. This isn't like global warming where emotion, opinion and assumptions are in play. It's simple math. Anyone who looks at the problem objectively knows that.

There's a story out today about Detroit pensioners. There is an agreement being proposed by Detroit's equivalent of a financial control board that would have them getting only 16 cents on the dollar. The problem in Detroit was caused by unsustainable spending practices. There were those who long ago tried to warn the people of that city what was going to happen only to be drowned out by loud liberal Democrat voices like yours.

If you live long enough you will see the fruits of your labor and know that you were part of the problem.
Ben Gleck

Oriskany Falls, NY

#431 Oct 31, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
My guess is that you didn't do very well with reading comprehension, history or economics in school.
You can disagree with my assessment all you want. You can call the Tea Party adherents names if you want. What will finally bring the truth home for everyone is simple math. We are on an unsustainable trajectory. This isn't like global warming where emotion, opinion and assumptions are in play. It's simple math. Anyone who looks at the problem objectively knows that.
There's a story out today about Detroit pensioners. There is an agreement being proposed by Detroit's equivalent of a financial control board that would have them getting only 16 cents on the dollar. The problem in Detroit was caused by unsustainable spending practices. There were those who long ago tried to warn the people of that city what was going to happen only to be drowned out by loud liberal Democrat voices like yours.
If you live long enough you will see the fruits of your labor and know that you were part of the problem.
What happened to Detroit is Japanese cars. They made better cars cheaper. The main reason they could make them cheaper is their much lower cost for health care. And they have rules about how much money the top earners can glom unto. Instead of mindlessly blaming liberals you might want to spread a little of that blame around to Lee Iacoca, and Roger Smith. They made sh#tty cars , while paying themselves vast fortunes. So what's your solution? Just elect more Republicans , right? Please tell me how that has helped in the past.
Hows yer pork

Little Falls, NY

#432 Oct 31, 2013
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text>What happened to Detroit is Japanese cars. They made better cars cheaper. The main reason they could make them cheaper is their much lower cost for health care. And they have rules about how much money the top earners can glom unto. Instead of mindlessly blaming liberals you might want to spread a little of that blame around to Lee Iacoca, and Roger Smith. They made sh#tty cars , while paying themselves vast fortunes. So what's your solution? Just elect more Republicans , right? Please tell me how that has helped in the past.
your right the unions crushed Detroit
Ben Gleck

Oriskany Falls, NY

#433 Oct 31, 2013
Hows yer pork wrote:
<quoted text>your right the unions crushed Detroit
Why are right wingers obsessed with penises?
Keepin It Real

Rome, NY

#434 Oct 31, 2013
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text>Why are right wingers obsessed with penises?
You're such a fckin loser, you know that?
no yellow tea for me

Syracuse, NY

#435 Oct 31, 2013
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text>Why are right wingers obsessed with penises?
not just dix. they also want to put "things" in pregnant women's woo woos. fkn tea baggers. in a few years they'll be no more memorable than the "occupiers".
left larry

Rome, NY

#436 Oct 31, 2013
OMG I sooo wish I were Tbagged again by everyone here, especially the president first, then lefty, then truth dig, then ben gleck! Omg I wish my work day would just be over and I had a nice litle trick and treat from everyone later. PLEEEEEEEASE???
Hows yer pork

Little Falls, NY

#437 Oct 31, 2013
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text>Why are right wingers obsessed with penises?
I'm sorry buddy I total support your right to be homosexual and get married. I just don't like your elitist hate rants nothing personal.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#438 Oct 31, 2013
Truth Dig wrote:
I think I've finally figured out the Tea Party: they didn't want a government shutdown, even though they were on-record saying they did, even though they originally took the position that they would not support ANY spending measure unless it defunded Obamacare, and then, after that didn't work, would only fund parts of the government, necessarily meaning that other parts of the government would have to be shut down.
The Tea Party wanted to default on the national debt, causing a financial catastrophe, because they are afraid an economic problem may develop decades from now. They are worried about deficits being at "unprecedented" levels even though they are at the same percentage of GDP as existed under their favorite all time President. They worry about our national debt even though we've had a national debt for almost 200 consecutive years. They worry our national debt is again at an "unprecedented" level even though as a percentage of GDP, it's not even close.
They claim to worry about future deficits, but propose cuts to programs which fail to address what everyone knows is the driver of those predicted deficits. And finally, they claim to be so concerned about our fiscal health, but they never have seen a tax cut they didn't like. Unless that tax cut helps poor people.
In other words, they are lunatics who have no idea what the f.ck they are talking about. The good news is they are about as popular as head lice.
It's more simple: the Tea Party wants to cut wasteful government spending, repeal intrusive regulation and stop higher taxes. Nothing more than that.

Of course, we ally with social conservatives who share our goals; we have the same opponents.

Level 7

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#440 Oct 31, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
My guess is that you didn't do very well with reading comprehension, history or economics in school.
You can disagree with my assessment all you want. You can call the Tea Party adherents names if you want. What will finally bring the truth home for everyone is simple math. We are on an unsustainable trajectory. This isn't like global warming where emotion, opinion and assumptions are in play. It's simple math. Anyone who looks at the problem objectively knows that.
There's a story out today about Detroit pensioners. There is an agreement being proposed by Detroit's equivalent of a financial control board that would have them getting only 16 cents on the dollar. The problem in Detroit was caused by unsustainable spending practices. There were those who long ago tried to warn the people of that city what was going to happen only to be drowned out by loud liberal Democrat voices like yours.
If you live long enough you will see the fruits of your labor and know that you were part of the problem.
A in all subjects.

You are completely wrong about global warming and our deficits. Global warming is a scientific fact. What our deficit will be is a matter of conjecture, opinion, and speculation. The "trajectory" is subject to numerous factors, including future worker productivity, immigration, population growth, and inflation, just to name the most obvious. It is a fact that the future deficit PROJECTIONS are driven almost entirely by health care costs. Cutting education spending today will do nothing to impact health care costs in the future. Except to probably make them worse: less educated Americans tend to be less healthy than those with higher education levels.

And Detroit did not have its own currency, central bank, immigration, trade, or monetary policy. That is but 5 differences between that city and the United States of America.
Truth

Utica, NY

#441 Nov 1, 2013
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text>What happened to Detroit is Japanese cars. They made better cars cheaper. The main reason they could make them cheaper is their much lower cost for health care. And they have rules about how much money the top earners can glom unto. Instead of mindlessly blaming liberals you might want to spread a little of that blame around to Lee Iacoca, and Roger Smith. They made sh#tty cars , while paying themselves vast fortunes. So what's your solution? Just elect more Republicans , right? Please tell me how that has helped in the past.
While the failure of US auto manufacturers to produce vehicles that could compete with US manufactured foreign cars was a reason that people left Detroit it was a small part of a bigger problem. The real problem in Detroit problem is very similar to the problem coming for our US government.

By the way, how about blaming the UAW who's legacy cost adds $1600 to every vehicle manufactured by the big 3 to cover legacy retirement and benefit costs. I'd say that does quite a bit in the way of explaining why US car manufacturers aren't competitive.

I don't know if electing a Republican would help but the history of Detroit is that they haven't had a Republican mayor since 1961. Democrats, one after the other, made promises that couldn't ever be kept over the long haul regardless how the US auto makers were doing. Money was borrowed(bonding) year after year to cover deficits until Detroit reached a point where they could no longer make the payments. Just like your credit card. You can live beyond your means by taking cash advances for a while but you can't do it forever only on the hope that something might change like thinking you may win the lottery. There comes a time when your minimum payment exceeds your income.
Truth

Utica, NY

#443 Nov 3, 2013
What happens when US bonds are no longer the reliable investments they've always been in the eyes of international investors?

What happens when the US dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency? China is pushing for a change because of the massive debt and continued deficit spending?

On the current path the US is well on its' way to becoming a second rate nation. Enemies of the US laugh now because they are bringing us to our knees without ever having to fire a shot.

Level 7

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#444 Nov 3, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
While the failure of US auto manufacturers to produce vehicles that could compete with US manufactured foreign cars was a reason that people left Detroit it was a small part of a bigger problem. The real problem in Detroit problem is very similar to the problem coming for our US government.
By the way, how about blaming the UAW who's legacy cost adds $1600 to every vehicle manufactured by the big 3 to cover legacy retirement and benefit costs. I'd say that does quite a bit in the way of explaining why US car manufacturers aren't competitive.
I don't know if electing a Republican would help but the history of Detroit is that they haven't had a Republican mayor since 1961. Democrats, one after the other, made promises that couldn't ever be kept over the long haul regardless how the US auto makers were doing. Money was borrowed(bonding) year after year to cover deficits until Detroit reached a point where they could no longer make the payments. Just like your credit card. You can live beyond your means by taking cash advances for a while but you can't do it forever only on the hope that something might change like thinking you may win the lottery. There comes a time when your minimum payment exceeds your income.
This is ridiculous. The collapse of the US auto industry was a result of Ford, GM, and Chrysler making garbage, combined with offshoring of American manufacturing. Detroit's population plummeted, and the economy has been in a permanent depressed state for years. The depression and population collapse deprived Dtroit of revenues to keep the government functioning.

I love how conservatives spot an unfavorable situation and immediately proclaim that unless we implement THEIR agenda immediately, the same thing will happen to the country. Even though there is absolutely no comparison to be made.

Level 7

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#445 Nov 3, 2013
Truth wrote:
What happens when US bonds are no longer the reliable investments they've always been in the eyes of international investors?
What happens when the US dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency? China is pushing for a change because of the massive debt and continued deficit spending?
On the current path the US is well on its' way to becoming a second rate nation. Enemies of the US laugh now because they are bringing us to our knees without ever having to fire a shot.
The only way US bonds stop being reliable is when the lunatics in the Tea Party cause a default on our national debt.

We are well on our way to becoming a second rate nation, but it's not because of federal government deficits, which we've been running for almost 200 CONSECUTIVE YEARS. It's because there is a radical, minority faction of the minority party which has hijacked our country and is hell bent on either implementing their extreme agenda or in the alternative, deliberately hurting the country. The crazies are running the show, and we are becoming a laughing stock.
Truth

Utica, NY

#446 Nov 4, 2013
Truth Dig wrote:
<quoted text>
The only way US bonds stop being reliable is when the lunatics in the Tea Party cause a default on our national debt.
We are well on our way to becoming a second rate nation, but it's not because of federal government deficits, which we've been running for almost 200 CONSECUTIVE YEARS. It's because there is a radical, minority faction of the minority party which has hijacked our country and is hell bent on either implementing their extreme agenda or in the alternative, deliberately hurting the country. The crazies are running the show, and we are becoming a laughing stock.
We have historically run deficits. You're right, but never at the current rate and magnitude. You seem to choose to ignore the fact that this debt has to be paid back. The higher the debt the more that has to be paid back. Every year the interest on the outstanding debt increases as a percentage of total spending. The more that the US pays in interest the less it has for discretionary and emergency spending.

That's why massive expansions of government with programs like the Affordable Care Act are ill advised right now. The money just is not there. The other salient fact that you also refuse to recognize is that this is a completely different world we live in now. We are no longer a country that can dominate our enemies economically. We don't have that kind of juice anymore.

You need to do some research and turn off MSNBC. There is a time coming when US bonds won't be the attractive investment they've always been and it has nothing to do with the Tea Party advocating for less government and responsible spending policies. It will be because simple math will dictate that there isn't enough money in the coffers to meet the amount needed to keep all of the promises that are being made.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#447 Nov 4, 2013
Truth Dig wrote:
The only way US bonds stop being reliable is when the lunatics in the Tea Party cause a default on our national debt.
They stop being reliable if inflation outpaces yield. Congress never intended or allowed a default on bonds. Obama threatened, but didn't have the power. The sequesters the best plan yet, we need to cut more spending, or cut future spending increases if we can't agree on cuts.

.
Truth Dig wrote:
We are well on our way to becoming a second rate nation, but it's not because of federal government deficits, which we've been running for almost 200 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.
Because of low productivity, high unemployment and massive, world record debt. Because of leadership:

.
Truth Dig wrote:
It's because there is a radical, minority faction of the minority party which has hijacked our country and is hell bent on either implementing their extreme agenda or in the alternative, deliberately hurting the country.
Here we agree. Obama's done a terrible job.

.
Truth Dig wrote:
The crazies are running the show, and we are becoming a laughing stock.
Truth

Herkimer, NY

#448 Nov 4, 2013
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text>What happened to Detroit is Japanese cars. They made better cars cheaper. The main reason they could make them cheaper is their much lower cost for health care. And they have rules about how much money the top earners can glom unto. Instead of mindlessly blaming liberals you might want to spread a little of that blame around to Lee Iacoca, and Roger Smith. They made sh#tty cars , while paying themselves vast fortunes. So what's your solution? Just elect more Republicans , right? Please tell me how that has helped in the past.
You do realize that the Japanese and Germans manufacture the cars in the US that they sell in the US don't you? And that those foreign owned manufacturing plants are subject to all of the same federal laws as US car manufacturers? As far as I know we have no federal laws that limit the amount of profit they can claim or laws that mandate a lower cost of healthcare.

Their costs are lower because the manufacture in right to work states where unionism and all of the outrageous costa associated with the UAW are a non-issue. And who do the union menmbers support and vote for? Democrats by a very large margin. Who proposes and supports pro-union legislation by a wide margin? Again, Democrats by a very large margin.

That excuse about the big 3 making crummy cars is a an excuse used by the manufacturers when the unions were looking for a scapegoat and a bailout. Stop listening to Ed Shultz. He's not telling the truth.
Truth

Utica, NY

#449 Nov 5, 2013
Truth Dig wrote:
<quoted text>
The only way US bonds stop being reliable is when the lunatics in the Tea Party cause a default on our national debt.
We are well on our way to becoming a second rate nation, but it's not because of federal government deficits, which we've been running for almost 200 CONSECUTIVE YEARS. It's because there is a radical, minority faction of the minority party which has hijacked our country and is hell bent on either implementing their extreme agenda or in the alternative, deliberately hurting the country. The crazies are running the show, and we are becoming a laughing stock.
There is an article in today's OD regarding borrowing to cover deficits and the effect it has on credit ratings. You should give it a look. It spells out exactly what is happening in Utica right now, what happened in Detroit and what will happen if the US government continues deficit spending and running up the national debt.

http://www.uticaod.com/latestnews/x1783714223...

This is "Economics 101".

Level 7

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#450 Nov 5, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
We have historically run deficits. You're right, but never at the current rate and magnitude. You seem to choose to ignore the fact that this debt has to be paid back. The higher the debt the more that has to be paid back. Every year the interest on the outstanding debt increases as a percentage of total spending. The more that the US pays in interest the less it has for discretionary and emergency spending.
That's why massive expansions of government with programs like the Affordable Care Act are ill advised right now. The money just is not there. The other salient fact that you also refuse to recognize is that this is a completely different world we live in now. We are no longer a country that can dominate our enemies economically. We don't have that kind of juice anymore.
You need to do some research and turn off MSNBC. There is a time coming when US bonds won't be the attractive investment they've always been and it has nothing to do with the Tea Party advocating for less government and responsible spending policies. It will be because simple math will dictate that there isn't enough money in the coffers to meet the amount needed to keep all of the promises that are being made.
We are going around in circles here. We don't have to "pay off" our debt. We roll it over; we've been doing it for 200 years. We pay the interest, yes, but interest rates are at their lowest levels in the history of the country. So the interest burden of our current deficits is infinitesimal.

Our deficits are not at unprecedented levels. I don't know why you keep saying that they are. Not only have they been cut in half the last couple of years, but as a percentage of GDP, our deficit this year is about what it was when Reagan was President.

We have a lousy economy, largely because we have been pursuing a pointless austerity agenda which has no basis in economic theory.

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