AHL team paid for with your tax dollars
Da Law

New York, NY

#42 Mar 2, 2013
KY WELLER wrote:
<quoted text>Mike,if every expenditure were up for public debate,how much would actually get accomplished? Think about it.
There's no public debate needed for privately funded development. Hence the lack of debate on the new Bass Pro Shop project, the biggest retail effort the area has seen in decades.

As others have pointed out, if the deal is already done there's absolutely no need for secrecy. Then why is there all this obfuscation about it?

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#43 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
So the part about deal including the effective seizure of the Utica Aud, and it's legally mandated payments from the Water Authority, is true?
Everything that was written is true. Take it for how you want to interpret it.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#44 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no public debate needed for privately funded development. Hence the lack of debate on the new Bass Pro Shop project, the biggest retail effort the area has seen in decades.
As others have pointed out, if the deal is already done there's absolutely no need for secrecy. Then why is there all this obfuscation about it?
You need to think of the other parties involved. After all abbotsford is still selling regular season tickets and soon playoff tickets.
Da Law

New York, NY

#45 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything that was written is true. Take it for how you want to interpret it.
So the deal involves the effective seizure of the Aud, the co-opting of the Water Authority payments, and an orgy of graft under the direction of the Usual Suspects?

Gosh, how could anyone think this isn't a great idea.
Da Law

New York, NY

#46 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to think of the other parties involved. After all abbotsford is still selling regular season tickets and soon playoff tickets.
So the management team of Utica's proposed AHL franchise is totally cool with fleecing fans?

This just gets better and better.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#47 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
So the deal involves the effective seizure of the Aud, the co-opting of the Water Authority payments, and an orgy of graft under the direction of the Usual Suspects?
Gosh, how could anyone think this isn't a great idea.
I didn't read that in that article. Did you?

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#48 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
So the management team of Utica's proposed AHL franchise is totally cool with fleecing fans?
This just gets better and better.
The management team isn't involved with the current team in abbotsford. Also, how would you consider this to be "fleecing fans"?
Da Law

New York, NY

#49 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't read that in that article. Did you?
How else could one possibly read it? The deal as described, and which you've confirmed is accurate, is exactly the kind of nightmare scenario everyone was afraid of. It even puts the Hotel Utica fiasco to shame.
Da Law

New York, NY

#50 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
The management team isn't involved with the current team in abbotsford. Also, how would you consider this to be "fleecing fans"?
They're allowing fans to spend money for things they'll never receive, something not exactly new for this franchise. How about that awesome merch that was on sale for Christmas...and still hasn't shown up.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#51 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
They're allowing fans to spend money for things they'll never receive, something not exactly new for this franchise. How about that awesome merch that was on sale for Christmas...and still hasn't shown up.
No they aren't. Fans who buy tickets in abbotsford will attend those regular season games and playoff games.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#52 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
How else could one possibly read it? The deal as described, and which you've confirmed is accurate, is exactly the kind of nightmare scenario everyone was afraid of. It even puts the Hotel Utica fiasco to shame.
That's your inference.
Da Law

New York, NY

#53 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your inference.
No, that's reality. Allowing these people to seize control of the Aud is a recipe for corruption and graft. Is it any wonder they're doing everything possible to keep it secret?

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#54 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's reality. Allowing these people to seize control of the Aud is a recipe for corruption and graft. Is it any wonder they're doing everything possible to keep it secret?
Again that's your inference.
Da Law

New York, NY

#55 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again that's your inference.
There's no inference involved.

You've admitted that control of the Aud is, indeed, a goal of the deal. It's undeniable that offers a plethora of opportunities for corruption and graft.

You've also admitted the deal is intentionally being kept secret.

Mind you, those are just the things you've admitted. That's alarming in and of itself.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#56 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no inference involved.
You've admitted that control of the Aud is, indeed, a goal of the deal. It's undeniable that offers a plethora of opportunities for corruption and graft.
You've also admitted the deal is intentionally being kept secret.
Mind you, those are just the things you've admitted. That's alarming in and of itself.
The ownership group didnt want the news to be released yet. It's not a case of keeping secrets. I'm not really sure why people are having trouble comprehending this. To be frank, it's a private business venture and until these private business owners want to go public it's no one's god damn business.
Da Law

New York, NY

#57 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
The ownership group didnt want the news to be released yet. It's not a case of keeping secrets.
Except, obviously, for the "keep it secret" part.
I'm not really sure why people are having trouble comprehending this. To be frank, it's a private business venture and until these private business owners want to go public it's no one's god damn business.
The post you already confirmed as true says the already done deal uses public money. Public money, public disclosure. You don't get to cut backroom deals with your cronies, loot the public till, and keep the details secret. I'm not sure why you, and the professional stage managers working on behalf of the deal, don't get that.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#58 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
Except, obviously, for the "keep it secret" part.
<quoted text>
The post you already confirmed as true says the already done deal uses public money. Public money, public disclosure. You don't get to cut backroom deals with your cronies, loot the public till, and keep the details secret. I'm not sure why you, and the professional stage managers working on behalf of the deal, don't get that.
Because its not time to release the info yet. Sorry but this is their decision and all the rest of the parties involved. It's not my decision. It's not your decision.

Also the post said they are pursuing public money It doesn't say used public money. Please get your facts straight before you make your conclusions and what you feel are entitled to know.
Noooooooooooooo

Utica, NY

#59 Mar 2, 2013
Why does Utica need AHL hockey, Utica is soon to be home the the Harbor Sewer Rat baseball team. Thousands and Thousands are going to come to the Utica Stadium to watch and smell the Sewer Rats play along the polluted harbor. As soon as the game is over they will run to Niky Doodles for hot dogs and Utica will be rebound.
Da Law

New York, NY

#60 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because its not time to release the info yet. Sorry but this is their decision and all the rest of the parties involved. It's not my decision. It's not your decision.
All those other great "public/private partnerships" in Utica's history were secret until the last minute too. Some things never change.
Also the post said they are pursuing public money It doesn't say used public money.
You've admitted they want control of the Auditorium. That gives them about $7 million dollars of public money from the Water Authority over a ten year contract. That's not counting all the other sources of cash they'll be able to tap into including the millions they could slurp up with bonds. And those obligations could be payable long after the team is nothing but a memory.
Please get your facts straight before you make your conclusions and what you feel are entitled to know.
Believe me, I wish I had more facts, but someone is actively trying to keep all the details secret. Those would be the same people paying a team to stage manage the whole affair.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#61 Mar 2, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
All those other great "public/private partnerships" in Utica's history were secret until the last minute too. Some things never change.
<quoted text>
You've admitted they want control of the Auditorium. That gives them about $7 million dollars of public money from the Water Authority over a ten year contract. That's not counting all the other sources of cash they'll be able to tap into including the millions they could slurp up with bonds. And those obligations could be payable long after the team is nothing but a memory.
<quoted text>
Believe me, I wish I had more facts, but someone is actively trying to keep all the details secret. Those would be the same people paying a team to stage manage the whole affair.
Yes. It's one big conspiracy. Please.

See you at the aud this fall!

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