AHL team paid for with your tax dollars
Mike C

Rome, NY

#22 Mar 1, 2013
Wacko wrote:
<quoted text>I agree, this may not benefit everyone but we need a good shot in the rear here in Utica. You may not want to benefit from this idea but there's a chance that it may be one piece in a big puzzle that revitalizes the area. I agree that there are other places our tax dollars can go but if this is a success, other areas of concern can be dealt with as well. We've got to start taking chances around here or we're just gonna be stuck in the mud. BRING ON THE AHL!
Ah, the old Tinkerbell approach to economic development- "If we just wish hard enough we can make it happen!"

If it's such a great idea, and so worthy of public funding, why not present the idea publicly? Lets see the marketing studies and financial projections so we can make an informed decision, instead of negotiating a deal in secret. Why slink around in the shadows?

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#23 Mar 1, 2013
Mike C wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, the old Tinkerbell approach to economic development- "If we just wish hard enough we can make it happen!"
If it's such a great idea, and so worthy of public funding, why not present the idea publicly? Lets see the marketing studies and financial projections so we can make an informed decision, instead of negotiating a deal in secret. Why slink around in the shadows?
Was the deal disclosed publicly for the bass pro shop? This is a company that will spend millions of dollars building a store. You don't think they are getting government compensation and tax benefits?

And what benefit is there to publicly disclose financial plans or even if there is public funding? And I'm not saying if there is or isn't. I'm asking what benefit is there? It's not like you or anyone else had any say before the deal was compensated or after. It made me laugh when I read "so we can discuss". What will you discuss and when you make up your mind what power will you yield? None would be the answer to that.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#24 Mar 1, 2013
Sorry I misquoted. It's "so we can make an informed decision". My sentiments are still the same. After you make your informed decision what power will you wield?
Mike C

Rome, NY

#25 Mar 1, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Was the deal disclosed publicly for the bass pro shop?
Well, no. Since, you know, it's a private business. If you're not sucking at the public teat you can do whatever you want.
This is a company that will spend millions of dollars building a store. You don't think they are getting government compensation and tax benefits?
Yeah, they've applied for an IDA and there will be a public hearing. "Public" being the part you seem to be so afraid of.
And what benefit is there to publicly disclose financial plans or even if there is public funding? And I'm not saying if there is or isn't. I'm asking what benefit is there? It's not like you or anyone else had any say before the deal was compensated or after. It made me laugh when I read "so we can discuss". What will you discuss and when you make up your mind what power will you yield? None would be the answer to that.
Let me get this right. You're seriously arguing that public money should be spent in secret? That despite the history of failure professional hockey has in the area we should just hand over a pile of money? There is absolutely no evidence, none, that this franchise is going to be anything but a disaster. That's totally fine if they're spending their own money, but not when they're spending desperately needed public funds.
Insider

Rome, NY

#26 Mar 1, 2013
You seriously won't believe the deal they've put together. We're talking a complete takeover of the Auditorium for the express purpose of using all it's resources for the team. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in public money, and it's absolutely chock a block full of opportunities for graft.

There's a reason they're keeping this deal secret.
ahl

Utica, NY

#27 Mar 1, 2013
Why is the City of Utica investing in this? Will only Uticans be attending these events? I would say it will be the surrounding communities that will be attending also. My first suggestion would be to set up a fund where anyone that wants this AHL team, to come to the Aud., send in a dollar per vote in favor of this idea. If this fund reaches a $ million I would than support the City matching this $ million.

I think this would be considered a regional Team and should really be funded regionally.
Truth

Utica, NY

#28 Mar 1, 2013
Wacko wrote:
<quoted text>I agree, this may not benefit everyone but we need a good shot in the rear here in Utica. You may not want to benefit from this idea but there's a chance that it may be one piece in a big puzzle that revitalizes the area. I agree that there are other places our tax dollars can go but if this is a success, other areas of concern can be dealt with as well. We've got to start taking chances around here or we're just gonna be stuck in the mud. BRING ON THE AHL!
A shot in the rear like we got from the previous Aud renovations, Stanley Theater renovation/addition, the roundabout, the now half vacant Utica National building, the City Center or any of the other schemes that were supposed to turn the city around?

Even if true this will serve only a very small percntage of the population. I'm all for exploring new avenues for bringing the area back but I think it starts with lowering taxes rather raisng them and spending the revenue on such a niche project. Lower taxes and regulation create a friendlier business environment. That attracts business and creates jobs. Jobs attract people and when those people have disposable income there will be a demand for all kinds of entertainment including AHL hockey. No one can reasonably believe that if the taxpayers pony up to bring a team here that it will lead to growth can they?

If this is true and Utica does get a team I'm all for it as long as no tax dollars or incentives are part of the deal.
Insider

Rome, NY

#29 Mar 1, 2013
It's no accident you're hearing all kinds of rah-rah for this AHL deal. It's also no accident that you're not hearing any actual details.

Here's the truth. In the area's long history of insider deals this one is going to be the new benchmark. When it's eventually made public the sheer chutzpah and naked greed will make your jaw drop.

1. The Usual Suspects are up to their necks in this. Lots of the same names we've all come to know and loathe.

2. Every level of the local Gimme Gang is on board. City, County...everybody.

3. The Utica Auditorium will effectively be seized by the powers that be.

4. Remember the deal for Utica's Water Board? Remember how it lead to the creation of two independent authorities, one for the Aud and the other for the water system? You're about to see just how much of a lie that "independent" part is.

5. You're going to be paying for this deal for a loooooooooooong time.

6. Anybody telling you there's not really much in the way of public funding and incentives involved is lying. Through their teeth.

7. Even when the deal is revealed there are parts of it that will remain opaque. That's quite intentional.

8. You may have noticed our good friend "Utica34" has been flogging this deal all over the place, spending up to 18 hours a day on it. He's posted Here on Topix, on hockey discussion boards, in the comments section of articles, etc.

Take note of what he hasn't said, and draw your own conclusions.

ahl

Utica, NY

#30 Mar 1, 2013
Who runs the Aud.?

The Upper Mohawk Valley Memorial Auditorium Authority (UMVMAA)

Another not for profit?

Public Authoities Mission Statement

"To provide an enviroment for entertainment, sports, community events and recreation in order to create a positive economic impact and improved quality of life for the citizens of the Mohawk Valley."
date adopted Feb. 8, 2012

City resident should checkout who is on the board and more importantly who puts them there. The County ex. and County Board of Leg.

Where does the city fit in?
ahl

Utica, NY

#31 Mar 1, 2013
The Upper Mohawk Valley Memorial Auditorium Authority was created by the New York State Legislature in 1996 to own and operate the Utica Memorial Auditorium. The Authority is comprised of seven local residents, three of whom are appointed by the Oneida County Executive and four by the county legislature. Members serve five year terms without compensation. Authority members determine policy and oversee the operation of the facility to ensure a continuing dedication to the preservation and renovation of this architectural gem. Day-to-day operations of the facility are managed by the private management company, Venue Services Inc.

Current Authority members:

Louis Steppello - Chairman
Carl Annese - Vice-Chair
Jim Brock, Jr.
Joanne Gerace
Paul Romano

Venue Services Inc. contacts:

Will Berkheiser - President & AUD General Manager
Betsy Woish - Arena Administrator
Frank LaBella - Director of Operations
Donna Geer - Office Manager

uticaaud.org
ahl

Utica, NY

#32 Mar 1, 2013
Insider wrote:
It's no accident you're hearing all kinds of rah-rah for this AHL deal. It's also no accident that you're not hearing any actual details.
Here's the truth. In the area's long history of insider deals this one is going to be the new benchmark. When it's eventually made public the sheer chutzpah and naked greed will make your jaw drop.
1. The Usual Suspects are up to their necks in this. Lots of the same names we've all come to know and loathe.
2. Every level of the local Gimme Gang is on board. City, County...everybody.
3. The Utica Auditorium will effectively be seized by the powers that be.
4. Remember the deal for Utica's Water Board? Remember how it lead to the creation of two independent authorities, one for the Aud and the other for the water system? You're about to see just how much of a lie that "independent" part is.
5. You're going to be paying for this deal for a loooooooooooong time.
6. Anybody telling you there's not really much in the way of public funding and incentives involved is lying. Through their teeth.
7. Even when the deal is revealed there are parts of it that will remain opaque. That's quite intentional.
8. You may have noticed our good friend "Utica34" has been flogging this deal all over the place, spending up to 18 hours a day on it. He's posted Here on Topix, on hockey discussion boards, in the comments section of articles, etc.
Take note of what he hasn't said, and draw your own conclusions.
Thank You I agree with you.
zimzallah

Rome, NY

#33 Mar 1, 2013
Is all this is true we're about to get f*cked, and hard.
Da Law

New York, NY

#34 Mar 1, 2013
Insider wrote:
3. The Utica Auditorium will effectively be seized by the powers that be.
4. Remember the deal for Utica's Water Board? Remember how it lead to the creation of two independent authorities, one for the Aud and the other for the water system? You're about to see just how much of a lie that "independent" part is.
If this is true it's diabolically clever. The Water Authority is obligated to keep up it's payments to the Auditorium Authority, so there's a guaranteed income stream for whoever controls it. Seizing control of the Aud would give them access to millions of dollars in public money over the course of the contract.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#35 Mar 1, 2013
Insider wrote:
It's no accident you're hearing all kinds of rah-rah for this AHL deal. It's also no accident that you're not hearing any actual details.
Here's the truth. In the area's long history of insider deals this one is going to be the new benchmark. When it's eventually made public the sheer chutzpah and naked greed will make your jaw drop.
1. The Usual Suspects are up to their necks in this. Lots of the same names we've all come to know and loathe.
2. Every level of the local Gimme Gang is on board. City, County...everybody.
3. The Utica Auditorium will effectively be seized by the powers that be.
4. Remember the deal for Utica's Water Board? Remember how it lead to the creation of two independent authorities, one for the Aud and the other for the water system? You're about to see just how much of a lie that "independent" part is.
5. You're going to be paying for this deal for a loooooooooooong time.
6. Anybody telling you there's not really much in the way of public funding and incentives involved is lying. Through their teeth.
7. Even when the deal is revealed there are parts of it that will remain opaque. That's quite intentional.
8. You may have noticed our good friend "Utica34" has been flogging this deal all over the place, spending up to 18 hours a day on it. He's posted Here on Topix, on hockey discussion boards, in the comments section of articles, etc.
Take note of what he hasn't said, and draw your own conclusions.
Actually I've never commented in the sections of articles. Just here and one hockey board. I would like you to provide a link to just one article where I posted a comment. You won't find one.

The deal is done folks. See you at the aud this fall.
sticks35

East Hartford, CT

#36 Mar 1, 2013
why is everyone complaining about money being used to fix the aud?? its a public building, why would you not put some money into it for a ahl team to come in and play 40 plus games in the building AND pay rent to use the building for games and practices. what are you gonna do let a div 3 college team pay pennies to play 15-20 nights along with youth hockey and figure skaters??? even if you let the building sit empty you will have tax payer money getting dumped into it to keep it from falling down.

KY WELLER
Level 9

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#37 Mar 1, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
Oh this thread will be comical. Watching people with no knowledge of what happened talking about a sport they also have no knowledge of. Lol
34,I've been following you in these threads,and I knew it would devolve into the clusterfuck that you have now. Sometimes you accomplish more by saying less around here... I appreciate you trying to keep us updated,though. Don't let the dopes get you down!

KY WELLER
Level 9

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#38 Mar 1, 2013
sticks35 wrote:
why is everyone complaining about money being used to fix the aud?? its a public building, why would you not put some money into it for a ahl team to come in and play 40 plus games in the building AND pay rent to use the building for games and practices. what are you gonna do let a div 3 college team pay pennies to play 15-20 nights along with youth hockey and figure skaters??? even if you let the building sit empty you will have tax payer money getting dumped into it to keep it from falling down.
Some of the idiots around this site don't understand what INVESTMENT means... Consider the source with most posters.

KY WELLER
Level 9

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#39 Mar 1, 2013
Mike C wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, no. Since, you know, it's a private business. If you're not sucking at the public teat you can do whatever you want.
<quoted text>
Yeah, they've applied for an IDA and there will be a public hearing. "Public" being the part you seem to be so afraid of.
<quoted text>
Let me get this right. You're seriously arguing that public money should be spent in secret? That despite the history of failure professional hockey has in the area we should just hand over a pile of money? There is absolutely no evidence, none, that this franchise is going to be anything but a disaster. That's totally fine if they're spending their own money, but not when they're spending desperately needed public funds.
Mike,if every expenditure were up for public debate,how much would actually get accomplished? Think about it.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#40 Mar 1, 2013
KY WELLER wrote:
<quoted text> 34,I've been following you in these threads,and I knew it would devolve into the clusterfuck that you have now. Sometimes you accomplish more by saying less around here... I appreciate you trying to keep us updated,though. Don't let the dopes get you down!
It doesn't get me down. Just trying to pass legitimate info to others. Maybe I should have kept it to myself but I'm excited about it and I don't even live there anymore. Lol
Da Law

New York, NY

#41 Mar 2, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I've never commented in the sections of articles. Just here and one hockey board. I would like you to provide a link to just one article where I posted a comment. You won't find one.
The deal is done folks. See you at the aud this fall.
So the part about deal including the effective seizure of the Utica Aud, and it's legally mandated payments from the Water Authority, is true?

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