Voodoo Economics: Utica Style

Voodoo Economics: Utica Style

Posted in the Utica Forum

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Uh Oh


#2 Jun 24, 2008
Well I can repeat what I wrote. We did not have a suplus. We have an operational deficit of some 15 million (we need a handout form NYS each year to bring the budget in balance). We bring in 15 million less than we need.

SO, the million they found was not from budget cuts or a real increase in revenue, it was found money.

At best, we reduced the amount of money in our deficit form say 15 million or so to 14 million or so. Makes Albany happy, for a moment. BUT, since most of this money was from grants, how much did the city bond for needlessly.

Dave, Mike, Joan Meola, ad nauseum, can call it what they want, but if I told a client of mine, who was in debt by millions, that money they found in a drawer was a surplus, I am certain I would have my office closed.

However, in politics ( or what passes for politics here)they call this a surplus. I can't wait to see the surplus when they bond for millions to fund the UFD pension.

We'll be rolling in dough then.

I guess education in numbers, taxes or addition is not a qualifer for office in this area.
Bad Deal For Taxpayers


#3 Jun 24, 2008
I guess when you expose something in language everyone understands, city hall gets nervous, keep it up
Uh Oh

New York, NY

#4 Jun 24, 2008
Well, I try to keep it simple. I don't think Uticans are unable to undderstand but tax things like this are dull. Its great to scream we saved a million, but to explain when a savings is not a savings takes time.

I can only hope people pay attention. I remmeber Moodys reprot last year chiding Utica for having too much money coming from NYS handouts, now we want to call this a surplus.

New York, NY

#5 Jun 24, 2008
I'm sorry but I am dense.... could you explain this in Utican terms... please :-D
Sounds to me

Newport, NY

#6 Jun 24, 2008
Like you both are admitting that the city just took a step forward. A small step, but a step none the less. And if next year the deficit is further reduced, what will your complaints be then? You can object to the value of the surplus; but if the city bond rating gets stronger and borrowing interest rates get lower, furthering the ability to repair streets or spur economic development, what is bad about that? Maybe next year there won't be another tax increase. Who knows? You can call it what you will, but it was still a positive thing for the city.
Uh Oh


#7 Jun 24, 2008
Yup, found money, not revenue form increased fees,budget cuts, or taxes, just found money.

Our yearly budget defict is 15million, how does finding one million become a surplus? My math says we are still 14 million from break even

Utica, NY

#8 Jun 24, 2008
It means the City is getting help from NYS every year (16 million)... they actually (for once) spent $1,000,000 LESS then they expected, but we STILL needed 15 Million just to "break even".

So the Usual Suspacet as everyone calls them called the OD and fell all over themselves and patted each other on the back in this article to make it look like the Roafaro crew actually came out "ahead".

Then a bunch of the same few Pro-Roefaro posters came up like 6 all at once and started posting all these flowering opinions up here saying "Great Job" mayor Roefaro!

One of these puppets used this magical million dollars to defend a huge list of wrong doings that Gear of Zanzibar listed. Things like the obvious cronyisms and lazyness - corruption.

So the Pro-Roefaro says somethin like "yup corruption just put a million dollars in the bank" and "Yup, new burglary unit" to say Roefaro was doing a good job. Ha ha these are Roefaros people saying this here!!

ANything to make this carnival look good, no matter how clear you can see they are full of crap.
Uh Oh


#9 Jun 24, 2008
Well, I still have hope. Instead of thinking Uticans are not that smart (from a politicians viewpoint) I like to think the politicians are not as smart as they think they are.

And in this area I know I am correct. There are many smart, but burned out, people being dealt a raw deal. We can fix this if we want to. I for one, do not think people like we have on the Utica Council, save for one or two, are anything more than homegrown, ill read, locals who actually got in because others were too smart to run.

An old adage from law school-A students became Judges, B students became the A sudents law clerks, C students opened private practices and the D students, well they became successful in ploitics.

We have retooled this, but replace the college with high school, and the A students left the area, B work for the A, c went into county politics, D into coity government
Just an observation

Newport, NY

#10 Jun 24, 2008
If they took in more than they expected and spent less than they expected, this is a good thing that needs to continue. I don't personally care who is responsible for making it happen, just let it happen. Move on.
Uh Oh

New York, NY

#11 Jun 24, 2008
yes, but thats not what happened,so be unhappy and come to city hall

New York, NY

#12 Jun 24, 2008
Even if we saw a surplus... wouldnt it be Julian's sucess? Not Roefaro's?
Uh Oh


#13 Jun 25, 2008
I agree, but unless we can divest ourselves of a 15 million dollar NYS handout, needed to balance our budget we never have a surplus.

It sounds nice if you are running for re election, oe to make people feel happy, but I deal only in numbers, boring as they are, they at least, give taxpayers a needed perspective on what is really going on.

I am not trying to convince you or sway anything, just providing the unvarnished side of things. And we know the unvarnished side is never pretty.
Bad Deal For Taxpayers

New York, NY

#14 Jun 25, 2008
agreed, a deficit is a deficit, but a surplus is what you make it

Englewood, CO

#15 Jun 25, 2008
Amazing. The city braggart squad tried to act like they made a million for the bank. What lies!
Uh Oh


#16 Jun 25, 2008
Well, if we keep on them, they loose their ability to snow us
Reading your post Uh Oh

Newport, NY

#17 Jun 25, 2008
You just said that "instead of 15 million we need 14 million to break even"? That shows a move in the right direction, does it not? If you look at our national deficit from say 1994 to now, we have moved in the opposite direction.increasing the national deficit rather than reducing it by 1 million. I would still have to say the city is doing better than the nation as a whole, wouldn't you? Why not encourage a continuation of "finding" money? Who cares who takes credit for it, it should help the taxpayers next year. If they come back next year and say they broke even or are further behind, wouldn't that be the proper time to voice a complaint?
Uh Oh


#18 Jun 25, 2008
With respect, no it is not the right direction any more than your finding money on the street and calling it a raise.

It has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with who found it. I never implied it did. I am speaking strictly on the issue that it is not revenue raised, thereby not a surplus as they are trying to sell it. Yes, it reduces, very temporarily, the deficit. However, as it does not come from reduced spending or increased property taxes, say from new businesses, it is not a true surplus.

It is known as a "political surplus". Only a surplus in the minds of those wishing to mislead Uticans. It is not only done here, but we are in no shape to fool around like this.
Uh OhFrom NY Times


#19 Jun 25, 2008
Ed was Right

Manlius, NY

#20 Jun 25, 2008
As usual the City succumbs to the waving of flags and the brandishing of badges. Hey can I turn on the siren and the lights. Absolutely. Oh by the way, thanks for setting my retirement because my job is so so dangerous. I have to be brave, I have to be tough and more importantly, I have to be a mercenary. Sure no one in their right mind wants to chase bad guys, but how much does that go on and for how many, how many people want to go into burning buildings, but how many of them do that, isn't it really true that the ones that don't do the dangerous stuff are the ones who get paid the most money? Should have been a cowboy.

That sucking sound is the City going right down the drain. Thanks again Common Council, the supposed fiscal watchdogs of the taxpayers.
Uh Oh


#21 Jun 25, 2008
M ore than right. Were it not for grossly increased emergency state aid, and the robbing of the water fund (which is as gone as the water in Hinkley last year)we would have the control board by now.

Where are the Meolas, Wojnas, Zeccas, Phillips and the rest, who have presided over this. And our dear comptroller, struck with dumbness for 3 1/2 years, suddenly finds a surplus.

Well, the control board will fix the pension and budget problems.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Utica Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Andrew McCabe Cry baby 3 min Wahh 1
Nation grid bill going up! 10 min all nonsense 2
NH promoting private businesses 10 min wow 2
Noonman 38 min UPD 8
Fireman Squirt 40 min italiano 5
Florida Bridge Collapse Was Godís Will 49 min Rosemary 12
2018 St. Patrick's Day Parade 51 min Babies 5
WIBX No More 3 hr all nonsense 11
72Tavern at the Aud 3 hr love the riggies 10
Forte C Umm 17 hr Newborn 146

Utica Jobs

Personal Finance

Utica Mortgages