AHL & Utica Flames is a Rumor!! Wanna bet?!?!?

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Bet me

Yorkville, NY

#1 Mar 5, 2013
It's not happening boys. BELIEVE me, it's not. Already have heard the deal did not go through as of this morning, however here is still an attempt for next season.
I'll take it as far as placing a bet on this.
Shame, was really looking forward to an exciting October in the UT.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#2 Mar 5, 2013
Bet me wrote:
It's not happening boys. BELIEVE me, it's not. Already have heard the deal did not go through as of this morning, however here is still an attempt for next season.
I'll take it as far as placing a bet on this.
Shame, was really looking forward to an exciting October in the UT.
False. Check back at the end of the month.
Bet me

Yorkville, NY

#3 Mar 5, 2013
Wish I could trust ya on the "false" comment, but the soonest we'll be able to attend an AHL game there would be 10/14'. And that's not a promise by no means.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#4 Mar 5, 2013
Bet me wrote:
Wish I could trust ya on the "false" comment, but the soonest we'll be able to attend an AHL game there would've be 10/14'. And that's not a promise by no means.
False again but believe you want. I can't force anyone. See you this fall hopefully.
The Cretin

New Hartford, NY

#5 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
False again but believe you want. I can't force anyone. See you this fall hopefully.
It's..........Cretin!
fwiw

Utica, NY

#6 Mar 5, 2013
I'll bet you this...

No matter if it is Oct 13 or Oct 14, it will bust and be gone inside of 2-years.

UC hockey brings a crowd, but for $5 a ticket. Bring the family for $20 and maybe spend another $30 for gear and food.

AHL w/ a $15-20 ticket. Fun once or twice. But if it costs $70 to get in the door, and then $6 for a beer. Forget it. The novelty will wear off in 6-months.$40 for a playoff game?!? You guys are crazy.

It is not 1970. There is a reason hockey left.
Bet me

Yorkville, NY

#7 Mar 5, 2013
Yea I'll be there...usually attend a few UC games every now and then.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#8 Mar 5, 2013
fwiw wrote:
I'll bet you this...
No matter if it is Oct 13 or Oct 14, it will bust and be gone inside of 2-years.
UC hockey brings a crowd, but for $5 a ticket. Bring the family for $20 and maybe spend another $30 for gear and food.
AHL w/ a $15-20 ticket. Fun once or twice. But if it costs $70 to get in the door, and then $6 for a beer. Forget it. The novelty will wear off in 6-months.$40 for a playoff game?!? You guys are crazy.
It is not 1970. There is a reason hockey left.
Ok but there's plenty of people who feel differently and are spending a lot of money to make it happen.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#9 Mar 5, 2013
Bet me wrote:
Yea I'll be there...usually attend a few UC games every now and then.
Cool. Check out the flames too.
Really

Utica, NY

#10 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok but there's plenty of people who feel differently and are spending a lot of money to make it happen.
But, on the "Esche quote" thread you equate taxpayer money for hockey to taxpayer money for schools and education. Very delusional.
fwiw

Utica, NY

#11 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok but there's plenty of people who feel differently and are spending a lot of money to make it happen.
Not saying there isn't. But anyone who know Utica knows this:

Anytime something new comes to town the promise of a better restaurant/bar/venue/future excites people. Everyone shows up. Then after a bit, the shine wears off, and people don't visit so much.

Those people "spending a lot of money to make it happen," they should talk to Matt Hamill.

If the AHL tickets are going to be $20 apiece, watch how quick the novelty wears off. NH-Clinton-wboro hockey fan will go downtown once or twice and then get tired of dropping $100 for a night of utica entertainment.

Hockey succeeded here when utica's population supported it. Have you looked at utica's population lately? Its down. And they are not huge hockey fans.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#12 Mar 5, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
But, on the "Esche quote" thread you equate taxpayer money for hockey to taxpayer money for schools and education. Very delusional.
Not delusional at all. Why continue dumping money into the schools for those very well educated children just to leave when they graduate? If people want to retain and attract people and business to the area there needs to be reasons.
Level 3

Since: Jul 12

Albany, NY

#13 Mar 5, 2013
Ahl hockey will be an upscale event for most people in utica. The support for a ahl team will have to come from clinton, new hartford, holland patent, whitesboro and other areas. I doubt many black or bosnian people in utica have a love for hockey. Or would even know or care if there is a team.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#14 Mar 5, 2013
fwiw wrote:
<quoted text>
Not saying there isn't. But anyone who know Utica knows this:
Anytime something new comes to town the promise of a better restaurant/bar/venue/future excites people. Everyone shows up. Then after a bit, the shine wears off, and people don't visit so much.
Those people "spending a lot of money to make it happen," they should talk to Matt Hamill.
If the AHL tickets are going to be $20 apiece, watch how quick the novelty wears off. NH-Clinton-wboro hockey fan will go downtown once or twice and then get tired of dropping $100 for a night of utica entertainment.
Hockey succeeded here when utica's population supported it. Have you looked at utica's population lately? Its down. And they are not huge hockey fans.
Not entirely true. While utica has gotten smaller the region has stayed about the same for the past two decades. As of the latest census data the utica Rome market is close to 300000 citizens. The binghampton market which has a successful team is just under 250000. Time for people to stop looking at utica as this one sole entity. Utica is more. Its Rome, whitesboro, Clinton, new Hartford, etc especially when it comes to adding entertainment. Ill ask this question, do you think bass pro shops is building a new store in "utica" because its utica? Nope. They view the entire region as a whole. They know a majority of their business will come from non "utica" residents. There won't be many families from corn hill buying boats there...but there will be from Clinton, new Hartford, etc.
fwiw

Utica, NY

#15 Mar 5, 2013
Census data? The region has not gotten smaller in the past 30 years? Really? Might want to double check that.

Even if it the regions population was 100% of what it was in the comets heyday, you are still off base.

First off, Bass pro shops sells a product people want. You are kidding yourself if you are drawing any kind of parallel between the two.

The region will support BassPro because customers will travel from the valley or remsen or whatever to browse products in the store, or they will stop in when they are in town already. The alternative is to drive 2 hours to Auburn, or shop at Dicks, or online. Utica is a redneck hub. They hunt and fish.

AHL is a novelty niche. The market is miniscule in comparison to the market for outdoor sports gear and products. The region is not a hockey hotbed by any stretch of the imagination. The AHL will have to compete with college and HS sports and with other forms of entertainment. Few will travel 25 miles to utica to go to their first hockey game, and drop $100 just to get the family in the door. If they want to, they would go to the UC games instead, save $80 and still enjoy the game.

If you are going to rely on fans traveling 20-30 miles to make the franchise viable... you are asking for trouble.

If it happens, I hope it succeeds. But I would not be investing money in it.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#16 Mar 5, 2013
fwiw wrote:
Census data? The region has not gotten smaller in the past 30 years? Really? Might want to double check that.
Even if it the regions population was 100% of what it was in the comets heyday, you are still off base.
First off, Bass pro shops sells a product people want. You are kidding yourself if you are drawing any kind of parallel between the two.
The region will support BassPro because customers will travel from the valley or remsen or whatever to browse products in the store, or they will stop in when they are in town already. The alternative is to drive 2 hours to Auburn, or shop at Dicks, or online. Utica is a redneck hub. They hunt and fish.
AHL is a novelty niche. The market is miniscule in comparison to the market for outdoor sports gear and products. The region is not a hockey hotbed by any stretch of the imagination. The AHL will have to compete with college and HS sports and with other forms of entertainment. Few will travel 25 miles to utica to go to their first hockey game, and drop $100 just to get the family in the door. If they want to, they would go to the UC games instead, save $80 and still enjoy the game.
If you are going to rely on fans traveling 20-30 miles to make the franchise viable... you are asking for trouble.
If it happens, I hope it succeeds. But I would not be investing money in it.
Yes census data. Go right to Wikipedia and do the math. And as far as people not driving 20 miles for hockey? How many uticans travel to Syracuse? Albany? Glens falls? How many travel to the casino to lose money.

And I like all these figures being thrown around like "hundred dollars" just to get a family in the door. A family of four can easily go to a river rat game for 50 bucks here in albany. Slightly less for a game in glens falls.
fwiw

Utica, NY

#17 Mar 5, 2013
Well first off yes, census data. Oneida County, the whole county, is at about 230k. So your utica rome 300k number is nonsense. Second, the county was at 260 or so back in the early 80s. That's a double digit percentage decrease. A double digit decline is not "stayed about the same." Below is the link to google's US population graph for Oneida County.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore...

Utican's travel to syracuse and albany to do things they can't do at home. People in albany or syracuse are not coming to utica to watch AHL hockey. We gamble in oneida because that's where the casino is. AHL is not the casino, it is not Destiny USA, it is not horse racing in Saratoga.

Current binghamton tickets are $19. Buy four of them and you dropped $80. Now buy popcorn and a soda. You just spent $100. Season tickets for the albany devils are $500. That's apiece. Those will go like hotcakes in utica.

http://www.binghamtonsenators.com/tickets/buy...

Look I like sports. I want utica to succeed. You just have to think this through. There are laws of economics. You are flaunting them.
Truth

Utica, NY

#18 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes census data. Go right to Wikipedia and do the math. And as far as people not driving 20 miles for hockey? How many uticans travel to Syracuse? Albany? Glens falls? How many travel to the casino to lose money.
And I like all these figures being thrown around like "hundred dollars" just to get a family in the door. A family of four can easily go to a river rat game for 50 bucks here in albany. Slightly less for a game in glens falls.
I have to ask something. When you showed up here recently with your insdier news did you expect a rousing welcome? What was your goal. It seems obvious you had something in mind when you started posting. what was it?

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#19 Mar 5, 2013
fwiw wrote:
Well first off yes, census data. Oneida County, the whole county, is at about 230k. So your utica rome 300k number is nonsense. Second, the county was at 260 or so back in the early 80s. That's a double digit percentage decrease. A double digit decline is not "stayed about the same." Below is the link to google's US population graph for Oneida County.
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore...
Utican's travel to syracuse and albany to do things they can't do at home. People in albany or syracuse are not coming to utica to watch AHL hockey. We gamble in oneida because that's where the casino is. AHL is not the casino, it is not Destiny USA, it is not horse racing in Saratoga.
Current binghamton tickets are $19. Buy four of them and you dropped $80. Now buy popcorn and a soda. You just spent $100. Season tickets for the albany devils are $500. That's apiece. Those will go like hotcakes in utica.
http://www.binghamtonsenators.com/tickets/buy...
Look I like sports. I want utica to succeed. You just have to think this through. There are laws of economics. You are flaunting them.
That's oneida county. You're forgetting about herkimer county. The number is 297000 people as considered to be in the utica Rome market. You need to search a little better. The number in binghampton is under 250000 people. And 500 bucks for season tickets sounds like a steal to me. 500 divided by 40 games is 12.50 a seat. How much does a movie cost these days?

And you mention people from Albany and Syracuse not going to utica. You're right. Why would they? There's nothing in utica to attract them there...see where I'm going with this?

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#20 Mar 5, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to ask something. When you showed up here recently with your insdier news did you expect a rousing welcome? What was your goal. It seems obvious you had something in mind when you started posting. what was it?
Like I said before I was posting for about a month before I found out about the ahl team coming. I have no goals about the team. I learned the info and shared. The reason I'm so locked into it here is I know the truth. It's highly entertaining to me to keep reading people coming up with every excuse in the book why the team won't move to utica, how it will fail, how I'm crazy when in fact I know it's happening! Lol. It's done. And when the announcement happens at the end of march ill probably post a few "I told you so 's" and fade off. Ill fade off because this place is extremely negative. A few people are spending a boatload of money to bring ahl hockey back to utica and then pounced and capitalized on a team and situation that came once in 20 years. All the stars lined up between several franchises to allow this to happen.

In total frankness without the local people who stepped up that team in abbotsford would have been in glens falls not utica next season.

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