Comments
61 - 80 of 99 Comments Last updated Aug 11, 2013
hmm

Watertown, NY

#64 May 13, 2013
What good is a teacher's education if said teacher's passing rates are terrible?
Hard worker

New Hartford, NY

#65 May 13, 2013
hmm wrote:
What good is a teacher's education if said teacher's passing rates are terrible?
And let's be honest here. It is exactly this point that has caused all the terror and hype in the education system about "standardized tests".

Assuming a normal distribution curve, half of the kids will score below the average, so right away, you've got 50% of the parental population complaining that their kid didn't score well. Then you've got the majority of the teachers saying this policy disrupts the normal flow of how they'd teach. Put the money of the unions behind a big advertising campaign and you get an uproar.
anon.

Springfield, MA

#66 May 13, 2013
hmm wrote:
What good is a teacher's education if said teacher's passing rates are terrible?
Many of us continually take classes and workshops to add to our teaching skills, and have good passing rates. There are situations that are often out of our control.
anon.

Springfield, MA

#67 May 13, 2013
Hard worker wrote:
<quoted text>And let's be honest here. It is exactly this point that has caused all the terror and hype in the education system about "standardized tests".

Assuming a normal distribution curve, half of the kids will score below the average, so right away, you've got 50% of the parental population complaining that their kid didn't score well. Then you've got the majority of the teachers saying this policy disrupts the normal flow of how they'd teach. Put the money of the unions behind a big advertising campaign and you get an uproar.
Standardized tests do not accurately reflect learning. This is why there is a serious 'opt out' movement by parents. There are so many practice tests and state tests that there is little time left for teaching.
Truth

Utica, NY

#68 May 13, 2013
[QUOTE who="anon.
"]<quoted text>
All was legally negotiated by the unions, the Super and the Board and approved by ALL involved. I have yet to see you post ANY complaints regarding the SUper or BOE. My claim of teacher bashing has yet to be disputed.[/QUOTE]

If you don't see it then you haven't read what I've written. Go back and look. I am disgusted with both the entitlement menatlity of public school teachers/administrators as well as boards of education and other elected representatives who enable them. They are supposed to be representing the interests of the taxpayers in any negotiaion but don't. The reason is that many of them are education insiders who don't know anything else. On the current board Margaret Buckley is a shining example.

I recently heard Chris Salatino say about the rising cost of the pension benefits: "That's all negotiated. There's nothing we can do about that". My question is, who was representing the taxpayer in that negotiation.

Back when Barbara Klein was president of the UCSD BOE a deal was negotiated in secret and then voted on before taxpayers were allowed to know the details that gave teachers healthcare in retirement.
Read from this:
http://www.uticaod.com/news/x231950137/New-Ut...
"When the Utica Board of Education approved retiree health-care benefits for a large group of teachers 16 months ago, it had no idea what the added burden to taxpayers might be.

Now, officials do know and the price tag is staggering."

Now thake a look at this from a few days ago:
http://www.wktv.com/news/new-york-state/Despi...

"The state School Boards Association says pension contribution increases are the biggest single driver of rising expenses, going from nearly 12 percent of a district's payroll in the current school year to more than 16 percent next year."

That taxpayer is powerless. A special protected class has been created. That class is those in the public schools. The people who supposedly represent the taxpayers in this seem to think this is normal when in fact it should viewed as anything but.
Hard worker

New Hartford, NY

#69 May 13, 2013
[QUOTE who="anon."]<quot ed text>Standardized tests do not accurately reflect learning. This is why there is a serious 'opt out' movement by parents.[/QUOTE]

If we don't test kids, how are we supposed to know if they are learning?

I'm not trolling with the above. I offer this as an honest question. How else are supposed to separate the wheat from the chaff, if not through measurement (ie, testing)? We can use whatever polite speech we need to (hard working vs lazy, gifted vs challenged, etc, etc). But sooner or later, isn't it a good idea to measure our success? This can't be an arbitrary measure.

Sooner or later, somebody needs to know whether or not Johnny can properly give change from a dollar, or whether or not Susie can understand what she's reading.
Truth

Utica, NY

#70 May 13, 2013
[QUOTE who="anon.
"]<quoted text>
Standardized tests do not accurately reflect learning. This is why there is a serious 'opt out' movement by parents. There are so many practice tests and state tests that there is little time left for teaching.[/QUOTE]

Don't you mean there is little time left for teaching what you want to teach?

Before standardized testing teacher's were left pretty much to their own devices and allowed to teach and grade any way they wanted. There was a huge problem with consistency and a problem with children being passed through the system even when they weren't able to achieve even at minimum expectations. Standard tests create accountibility. If there is anything teacher's unions hate it's accountibility.

The hippies of the late 60's became the teacher's of the 70's and I think changed everything. Idealistic, rebellious and having a very liberal mindset every one just knew they had a better way to teach. Open classrooms, no grades and many other concepts that led to the disjointed and failing system that evolved and required a reining in with standard testing.

I would encourage anyone interested to do a little reasearch and find out what the "No Child Left Behind" concept was, how it was planned an then executed. It's been widely panned by educators but you might be surprised to see how it was set up what its' goals were.
the truth likes kids

Utica, NY

#71 May 13, 2013
isnt that true you little troll? Hey heres one for you fruit cake freddy. How about when theteachers who get paid through the summer get those summer checks for 18 to 20k each? Hows that make you feel you mangy gnome. Gee you must be really hard a work arent you? Stay away from kids. Your anger and jealousy of teachers will only trigger your abnormal behavior. Just think of those teachers receiving that check for 20k for the summer. Im sure that will ease your freakish mangy little mind. Hey you know what the truth is? The TRUTH IS that you are a LOSER.
anon.

Utica, NY

#72 May 13, 2013
Truth wrote:
[QUOTE who="anon.
"]<quoted text>
Standardized tests do not accurately reflect learning. This is why there is a serious 'opt out' movement by parents. There are so many practice tests and state tests that there is little time left for teaching. "

Don't you mean there is little time left for teaching what you want to teach?

Before standardized testing teacher's were left pretty much to their own devices and allowed to teach and grade any way they wanted. There was a huge problem with consistency and a problem with children being passed through the system even when they weren't able to achieve even at minimum expectations. Standard tests create accountibility. If there is anything teacher's unions hate it's accountibility.

The hippies of the late 60's became the teacher's of the 70's and I think changed everything. Idealistic, rebellious and having a very liberal mindset every one just knew they had a better way to teach. Open classrooms, no grades and many other concepts that led to the disjointed and failing system that evolved and required a reining in with standard testing.

I would encourage anyone interested to do a little reasearch and find out what the "No Child Left Behind" concept was, how it was planned an then executed. It's been widely panned by educators but you might be surprised to see how it was set up what its' goals were.
There was no 'free for all'. Lol. States set the curriculum requirements while school districts implement them. Perhaps you should read NCLB. LOL!
compare apples to apples

Utica, NY

#73 May 13, 2013
[QUOTE who="teacher
"]<quoted text>
Half of all architects earn more than $73,340 and half earn less. The mean annual wage is $79,300 per year, and the mean hourly rate is $38.13.
http://architecture.about.com/cs/careers/f/ar...
new salary survey from the National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) shows that engineering majors dominate the list of college degrees that pay the highest salaries to new college graduates. Of the ten majors with the highest starting salaries, six are in some branch of engineering, including computer engineering, in the no. 1 slot at $70,400, chemical engineering, no. 2 at $66,400 and
NOT EVEN CLOSE! A teacher's starting salary in CNY is about $32k a year with a master's degree.
[/QUOTE]

You compare the mean average salary of architects to the starting salary of teachers. Of course, the beginning salary of a teacher will be lower than the mean salary of architects. Can you compare a teacher who has been working for 20 years to an architech who has been working for 20 years just to get a clearer picture. I'd like that broken down to an hourly salary for each also.
anon.

Utica, NY

#74 May 13, 2013
compare apples to apples wrote:
[QUOTE who="teacher
"]<quoted text>
Half of all architects earn more than $73,340 and half earn less. The mean annual wage is $79,300 per year, and the mean hourly rate is $38.13.
http://architecture.about.com/cs/careers/f/ar...
new salary survey from the National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) shows that engineering majors dominate the list of college degrees that pay the highest salaries to new college graduates. Of the ten majors with the highest starting salaries, six are in some branch of engineering, including computer engineering, in the no. 1 slot at $70,400, chemical engineering, no. 2 at $66,400 and
NOT EVEN CLOSE! A teacher's starting salary in CNY is about $32k a year with a master's degree.
"

You compare the mean average salary of architects to the starting salary of teachers. Of course, the beginning salary of a teacher will be lower than the mean salary of architects. Can you compare a teacher who has been working for 20 years to an architech who has been working for 20 years just to get a clearer picture. I'd like that broken down to an hourly salary for each also.
I have 15 years in and still don't come close.
Alcoholic parents

South New Berlin, NY

#75 May 14, 2013
Rock wrote:
It's part time.
Name another job that gets July/August off, all the major Holidays, winter break, spring break, Xmas break, 5 snow days last week or more of June off, First week of September off.
Plus the school day is less than 6 hours long.
Exactly. But all teachers do is walk around crying poor me. They should be happy that they get paid well and work half the time but they aren't. Plus teachers do not teach because they love kids and want them to have a great future. They teach for an easy paycheck.
Hard worker

New Hartford, NY

#76 May 14, 2013
Okay... so let's take a look locally. If we use Salary.com for the New Hartford zip code (13413), we can compare a high school teacher with a software engineer. The engineer will make about $4k more annually.

BUT let's remember... the engineer gets only 10 days of vacation and works 8 or more hours a day... there's typically no pay for overtime. The teacher, however gets staggering amounts of time off, shorter work days, and vastly superior benefits. It's a pretty open and shut case.
Hard worker

New Hartford, NY

#77 May 14, 2013
Alcoholic parents wrote:
<quoted text>...teachers do not teach because they love kids and want them to have a great future. They teach for an easy paycheck.
I think that's an unfair generalization. I like to think that many teachers have helping kids as a major part of their motivation. The fact that they are well compensated for it with easy hours is an added bonus, but it's not the main reason for many of them.
Alcoholic parents

South New Berlin, NY

#78 May 14, 2013
Hard worker wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that's an unfair generalization. I like to think that many teachers have helping kids as a major part of their motivation. The fact that they are well compensated for it with easy hours is an added bonus, but it's not the main reason for many of them.


When it comes to our kids I think all teachers should have the child's success at the top of the list. When you get stuck with a selfish teacher for the year it's like the kid losses a entire year of education. I agree not all teachers are that way but a large number of them don't think they get paid enough or have enough time off. I used to spend lots of time volunteering in the school until I couldn't stand the pouting anymore or the bad talk about the kids. I think parents should fill out surveys each year about their children's teachers and if a pattern is shown over years the teacher should be removed.
brilliant

Utica, NY

#79 May 14, 2013
Alcoholic parents wrote:
<quoted text>
When it comes to our kids I think all teachers should have the child's success at the top of the list. When you get stuck with a selfish teacher for the year it's like the kid losses a entire year of education. I agree not all teachers are that way but a large number of them don't think they get paid enough or have enough time off. I used to spend lots of time volunteering in the school until I couldn't stand the pouting anymore or the bad talk about the kids. I think parents should fill out surveys each year about their children's teachers and if a pattern is shown over years the teacher should be removed.
I totally agree
Hard worker

New Hartford, NY

#80 May 14, 2013
brilliant wrote:
<quoted text>I totally agree
Which brings us back full circle to the tenure concept, which some prefer we call "due process". It's effectively impossible to get bad teachers off the payroll.
Truth

Utica, NY

#81 May 14, 2013
[QUOTE who="anon.
"]<quoted text>
There was no 'free for all'. Lol. States set the curriculum requirements while school districts implement them. Perhaps you should read NCLB. LOL![/QUOTE]

I have. Teachers and their unions don't like it because it sets concrete goals, requires compliance and then accountibility.

When the No Child Left Behind Act was envisioned it was the creators of the bill that set the long term goals but they left the task of setting milestones to the the educators in each state. Those milestones were put in place to because teachers left to their own devices were not getting the job done. No continuity and children who didn't even know how to read were being passed through and graduated.

After a few years when educators realized that they were not achieving the goals that they themselves had set, they started to complain.
Truth

Utica, NY

#82 May 14, 2013
Hard worker wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that's an unfair generalization. I like to think that many teachers have helping kids as a major part of their motivation. The fact that they are well compensated for it with easy hours is an added bonus, but it's not the main reason for many of them.
I agree. That is an unfair generalization. As with any profession or occupation people have different reasons for choosing. I too think that many teachers, at least when they start out, have the best interest of the children in mind.
Truth

Utica, NY

#83 May 14, 2013
Hard worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Which brings us back full circle to the tenure concept, which some prefer we call "due process". It's effectively impossible to get bad teachers off the payroll.
Like I said, a protected class.

In California they call it "the dance of the lemons". You can Google that but it referes to union rules that allow inept and bad teachers to be shuffled around even after they've been shown to be incompetent.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Utica Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Girl Double Teamed in Fuel's Mens room 4 min vvvvvvvv 1
Washington mills Calvin arrested (Aug '09) 12 min Deja vu 4
Remsen Barnfest Pricing For Admission Released 14 min Fed Up 4
New Hartford becoming Utica 15 min Ape 3
Last 3 Letters of a word into 3 new words. (Dec '09) 25 min honeymylove 1,867
Lukin's Brick Oven Pizza & Lounge to Open on Va... (Oct '12) 44 min fritz 32
What do UPD COPS DO AFTER SEX? 45 min Coach Bruce 4
utica aud 1 hr goal 139
Utica Comet's schedule just out ! 1 hr goal 76
Hotel Utica Manager Matt Gaetano ARRESTED (AGAIN) 3 hr Jones 12
utica national (Jun '13) 4 hr Finished 524
•••
•••
Utica Dating

more search filters

less search filters

•••

Utica Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Utica People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Utica News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Utica
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••