Rob Maciol-County Executive?
Wrong

United States

#86 Nov 19, 2013
Sorry 4 double post mybad.
Truth

Utica, NY

#87 Nov 19, 2013
Wrong wrote:
<quoted text>Where did anyone say there was some law that said it was "legal"? You keep putting words in people's mouths I notice. And it's usually some stupid idea only you thought up.
See post #82 from the user "Truth is incorrect"-
"NYS law provides for self defense, even from the police"
Cretin Hob Alert

New Hartford, NY

#88 Nov 19, 2013
Wrong wrote:
Sorry 4 double post mybad.
You're "sorry" alright Cretin...a sorry piece of hate filled sh!t and it's your mother's "bad". The time you take to write lengthy rants like above is hilarious because nobody reads them. You are a marginalized moron and irrelevant. But man are you fun to mess with!
Taxpayer

Utica, NY

#89 Nov 19, 2013
Nothing would be a surprise around here. look at the dolts we now elect.
Truth

Utica, NY

#90 Nov 19, 2013
Truth is incorrect

Utica, NY

#91 Nov 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
See post #82 from the user "Truth is incorrect"-
"NYS law provides for self defense, even from the police"
Hold your breath, please.
Of course a reasonable person would believe the half-truths published on the ocgov.net website if they didn't pay attention to the details brought out in the trial. No, the information contained on the ocgov.net website is not completely accurate. You already know this because I told you what had been presented at trial, that Wyman was ordered to stay back because he didn't have a long gun. There are several other items of inconsistency between that story and what came out at trial. You can look them up. I’ll identify another later in this post. These inconsistencies point to both coverup and corruption.

You continue to cling to your opinion that Patterson made a decision to fire his weapon. What about the OCSO? Are they not responsible for their decision to begin a fire fight? Patterson was going nowhere. He was cornered in his garage with spot lights on him. All law enforcement had to do was wait. They were foolish and incompetent in their decision to begin a gun battle with a man excited over an emotionally charged situation. The report Maciol is hiding is likely to reveal just how many mistakes the OCSO made that night and expose their responsibility for the death of Kurt Wyman. As for FOIL requests, I thought the Utica OD made such a request and it was denied, but I'm unsure about that.

Many of us did our homework by paying attention during the trial. You should change your name to "uninformed" until you do your homework. You continually request proof positive but refuse to dig on your own to find it. You are lazy. Except for the report hidden by Maciol, everything needed to see through the corruption is in the trial transcript and was reported in the news. Look it up.

I will, however, point you to an article of law you're too lazy to research. New York State Self Defense Laws, Article 35.15, Part 2(i). Patterson was at home, in his dwelling (the garage), with no way to retreat, and not the initial aggressor (police fired first). When fired upon by police, struck twice, and believing the police were attempting to kill him, and as Wyman approached him with weapon drawn and aimed at Patterson, Patterson fired back. Patterson had no way of knowing the shotgun rounds fired by the police were less than lethal or not. He had no idea Wyman had a taser and not a handgun and that may have not mattered. Patterson reacted in self defense because the OCSO opened fire upon him and a man with a weapon pointed at him was approaching. The article of law applies to anyone and everyone, including members of law enforcement. Simply stated, even the police cannot go around shooting people. This is how citizens are protected from overzealous law enforcement and tyranny, or do you not believe citizens are entitled to such privilege because they lawfully sit in their garage, even after a quarrel with a cheating girlfriend and lawfully hold their shotgun while seated on a mechanic stool? Perhaps you feel everyone should immediately give up all of their constitutional rights and civil liberties simply because an officer demands it. Sorry pal, it doesn’t work that way.
Truth is incorrect

Utica, NY

#92 Nov 19, 2013
The OCSO and the Oneida County DA, Scott McNamara, want people to draw upon emotion and reach a conclusion that members of law enforcement do no wrong and that "if only Patterson had put down his weapon" or that "law enforcement needed to discuss the domestic incident with Patterson", or that “the police were there to help”, blah, blah, blah. It's garbage. The fact of the matter is Patterson had no legal obligation to set down his weapon, even at the request of law enforcement. Wanting to discuss a domestic argument that occurred between Patterson and his cheating girlfriend is not sufficient cause for law enforcement to open fire on a citizen, less than lethal munitions or not. It was the OCSO who antagonized the situation into the deadly quagmire it became and now they want to hide the report to cover it up. Direct testimony at trial also revealed that at no time did Patterson directly threaten any member of law enforcement. That blurb on the ocgov.com website slants details, such as Patterson's "pointing" of his shotgun at officers as he rotated on his stool. How lame. Simply lame. Why? Because they have nothing else, nothing concrete, and they are responsible for what happened. They need to present the air of a threat inspired by emotion so they can justify the excessive and unnecessary force they incorporated; force that set the stage for the death of Deputy Wyman.

The major problems with Patterson's defense are two fold. First was his attorney, Frank Nebush. Simply stated, the case was far too complex for Frank and he blew it. It didn't help Patterson and Frank failed to remain silent. Frank should have put a muzzle on Patterson and himself. Second, the OCSO should have immediately launched an investigation that night and collected statements and evidence. They didn't. They had plenty of time to iron out the kinks in their tale of half truths.

There, you have all you requested, and more. You may begin breathing again, or not.

BTW, I'm not firstamendment, but I'll tell him you said hello if I should bump into him.
Truth is incorrect

Utica, NY

#93 Nov 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
After all this time, the OCSO wants to fact check? Hilarious. The report is supposed to be an analysis of what happened. This is more spin to devalue the investigation and cover their incompetence.
Truth is incorrect

Utica, NY

#94 Nov 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
See post #82 from the user "Truth is incorrect"-
"NYS law provides for self defense, even from the police"
Of course a reasonable person would believe the half-truths published on the ocgov.net website if they didn't pay attention to the details brought out in the trial. No, the information contained on the ocgov.net website is not completely accurate. You already know this because I told you what had been presented at trial, that Wyman was ordered to stay back because he didn't have a long gun. There are several other items of inconsistency between that story and what came out at trial. You can look them up. I’ll identify another later in this post. These inconsistencies point to both coverup and corruption.

You continue to cling to your opinion that Patterson made a decision to fire his weapon. What about the OCSO? Are they not responsible for their decision to begin a fire fight? Patterson was going nowhere. He was cornered in his garage with spot lights on him. All law enforcement had to do was wait. They were foolish and incompetent in their decision to begin a gun battle with a man excited over an emotionally charged situation. The report Maciol is hiding is likely to reveal just how many mistakes the OCSO made that night and expose their responsibility for the death of Kurt Wyman. As for FOIL requests, I thought the Utica OD made such a request and it was denied, but I'm unsure about that.

Many of us did our homework by paying attention during the trial. You should change your name to "uninformed" until you do your homework. You continually request proof positive but refuse to dig on your own to find it. You are lazy. Except for the report hidden by Maciol, everything needed to see through the corruption is in the trial transcript and was reported in the news. Look it up.

I will, however, point you to an article of law you're too lazy to research. New York State Self Defense Laws, Article 35.15, Part 2(i). Patterson was at home, in his dwelling (the garage), with no way to retreat, and not the initial aggressor (police fired first). When fired upon by police, struck twice, and believing the police were attempting to kill him, and as Wyman approached him with weapon drawn and aimed at Patterson, Patterson fired back. Patterson had no way of knowing the shotgun rounds fired by the police were less than lethal or not. He had no idea Wyman had a taser and not a handgun and that may have not mattered. Patterson reacted in self defense because the OCSO opened fire upon him and a man with a weapon pointed at him was approaching. The article of law applies to anyone and everyone, including members of law enforcement. Simply stated, even the police cannot go around shooting people. This is how citizens are protected from overzealous law enforcement and tyranny, or do you not believe citizens are entitled to such privilege because they lawfully sit in their garage, even after a quarrel with a cheating girlfriend and lawfully hold their shotgun while seated on a mechanic stool? Perhaps you feel everyone should immediately give up all of their constitutional rights and civil liberties simply because an officer demands it, regardless of the laws designed to preserve your freedoms. Sorry pal, it doesn’t work that way.
Wrong

United States

#95 Nov 19, 2013
Cretin Hob Alert wrote:
<quoted text>
You're "sorry" alright Cretin...a sorry piece of hate filled sh!t and it's your mother's "bad". The time you take to write lengthy rants like above is hilarious because nobody reads them. You are a marginalized moron and irrelevant. But man are you fun to mess with!
Cold wet truth HURTS don't it yafuckin pathetic scum bitches?
Again we see that very few defending this clusterfck Fat Blob Bob can only whine and make momma jokes. Respectively and bottom line, I'm sure my mom's much prouder of me than yours is of you. Just by the way you talk, and endlessly react, it's clear you never had a chance to be in my league, whiny fuckplant. Did she teach you to be such a ranty failure that could only bitchscream and whine? Flip them lobster arms CNY tuffguy DUUUR DUUUR DUUUUR!!

What classy people Maciol and McNamara have supporting them!
Don't ever forget you phony public douchebags, this is going to stay about YOU the more you screw up and deny it.
Hey Truth

United States

#97 Nov 19, 2013
This you over defending the cat killer's dad from Whitestown with more stupid, just infantile excuses now too?
You must be a cop or something. ONLY... ONLY cops will go these hysterical lengths to save face. Let's just face it, you're some kind of schill for Whitestown or that Sheriff slob aren't you?
truth wrote:
The news really made this worse than what it really was. I'm a HUGE animal lover but I've known Sullivan for a long time. He's done his fair share of stupid things. The kittens were free because they weren't very nice they liked to bite and scratch, so he taped their legs together.. also to prevent them to run away while he did his "business" in the bathroom at the park. The kid smokes.. that's why there was a lighter on the floor, he prob dropped it. He LOVES animals.. He has his own puppy, cute and happy as can be. Did the news mention he had kitten food for them with him? No.. Did they mention he loves animals so much that he WORKED AT PETSMART! I honestly think this is like a scandal to ruin his fathers name.
Hey Truth

United States

#98 Nov 19, 2013
True CNY Homocopsual wrote:
I like to stare at pic's of scott an get out the jelly. He's such a man, I wish I could be a man like him with a job an money instead of sitting on topix dreaming about his life.
Ooo look! More face feces out of the mighty defenders of Rob Slob Maciol and Scott the public phonyman McNamara! As usual, dick&ass on their minds 24-7! Just keep helping me prove it son!
Truth

Utica, NY

#99 Nov 19, 2013
Truth is incorrect wrote:
<quoted text>
Hold your breath, please.
Of course a reasonable person would believe the half-truths published on the ocgov.net website if they didn't pay attention to the details brought out in the trial....
So now you're saying that not only is the sheriff guilty of wrong doing and a cover-up, the DA's office is also posting false information on their website. WOW! I don't know what to say other than that. How deep do you believe this conspiracy goes?

Christian Patterson did make a decision. That decision was to fire his weapon rather than putting it down, raising his hands and allowing himself to be taken into custody.

In the trial this came out:
" The defendant placed an additional six rounds of ammunition in his pockets. Prior to the arrival of the Police, a concerned friend called the defendant and tried to get him to calm down. During the conversation, the defendant told him:“The cops are on their way”; “I’m not going to be arrested”; “I’m not being taken from my house”; “I’m cocked and ready” and ended the conversation by saying “I’m locked and loaded.”"

Is this not true?


I'm afraid you didn't read down the page far enough when you Google the self defense law. In the law there is a difference between regular citizens and law enforcement officers. If you had read further and actually understood the law you would have read this:

"Sec. 35.30 Justification; use of physical force in making an arrest or in preventing an escape.
1. A police officer or a peace officer, in the course of effecting or attempting to effect an arrest, or of preventing or attempting to prevent the escape from custody, of a person whom he reasonably believes to have committed an offense, may use physical force when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to effect the arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody, or to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force; except that he may use deadly physical force for such purposes only when he reasonably believes that:
(a) The offense committed by such person was:
(i) a felony or an attempt to commit a felony involving the use or attempted use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(ii) kidnapping, arson, escape in the first degree, burglary in the first degree or any attempt to commit such a crime; or
(b) The offense committed or attempted by such person was a felony and that, in the course of resisting arrest therefor or attempting to escape from custody, such person is armed with a firearm or deadly weapon; or......"
Truth

Utica, NY

#100 Nov 19, 2013
Hey Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Ooo look! More face feces out of the mighty defenders of Rob Slob Maciol and Scott the public phonyman McNamara! As usual, dick&ass on their minds 24-7! Just keep helping me prove it son!
Who's defending them?
Prove what?
That you are delusional?
Son?

I don't like the other posters use of bad language but the only thing that's being proven is that you are living in a dream world where you somehow think your opinions are facts and that by bullying you will get everyone to buy into your point of view. You are proving that with every new post. Not going to happen.
Hey Truth

United States

#101 Nov 19, 2013
What? Are you seriously even trying to say that the OCSD and the DA aren't colluding here? WTF did you grow up on Planet Potato? Obviously you haven't been paying attention the last few decades. Nice try.
Hey Truth

United States

#102 Nov 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's defending them?
Prove what?
That you are delusional?
Son?
I don't like the other posters use of bad language but the only thing that's being proven is that you are living in a dream world where you somehow think your opinions are facts and that by bullying you will get everyone to buy into your point of view. You are proving that with every new post. Not going to happen.
..and you live in a dream world where you think I care. We can see what you are. A flipper. And excuse maker. Now go back and defend Joseph "Mengele" Sullivan, Dan Sullivan's cretin son. You have just as much a chance there.
Truth

Utica, NY

#103 Nov 19, 2013
Hey Truth wrote:
This you over defending the cat killer's dad from Whitestown with more stupid, just infantile excuses now too?
You must be a cop or something. ONLY... ONLY cops will go these hysterical lengths to save face. Let's just face it, you're some kind of schill for Whitestown or that Sheriff slob aren't you?
<quoted text>
No I did not write that and no I am not a "shill" for anyone. S-h-i-l-l being the correct spelling for that word by the way.

You really aren't very bright are you?
In addition to the poster who did write that using the name "Truth" there is at least one other poster in this thread alone posting under the screen name "Truth". I thought that was pretty obvious just from the way the comments are written. You use multiple screen names and "Judge It" icons because I'm guessing you want people to think someone agrees with you. Other people use screen name taken from another person.
Hey Truth

United States

#104 Nov 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
No I did not write that and no I am not a "shill" for anyone. S-h-i-l-l being the correct spelling for that word by the way.
You really aren't very bright are you?
In addition to the poster who did write that using the name "Truth" there is at least one other poster in this thread alone posting under the screen name "Truth". I thought that was pretty obvious just from the way the comments are written. You use multiple screen names and "Judge It" icons because I'm guessing you want people to think someone agrees with you. Other people use screen name taken from another person.
Sure that wasn't you. Odd that. Spellchecker too huh? Shall I look for yours?

I don't claim to be bright. By your reaction and innate idiocy I'm guessing you're telegraphing it though. Thanks!
Truth is incorrect

Utica, NY

#106 Nov 19, 2013
Those quotes are hearsay. No one in law enforcement heard Patterson make those statements. No one knows the motivations of the friend from whom these alleged statements originated. Again, you fall into the trap of replacing fact and critical thinking with emotion, just as McNamara and Maciol desire.

Again, it's you, Truth, who is missing the boat. I read that and it doesn't apply. The law provides for self defense (which is what you asked for and what I provided). Your attempt at redirection to Justification of Physical Force makes no logical sense and is off point. Patterson was not under arrest for anything. Police had no cause to arrest him. That came out in the trial as well. They had no basis to launch a gun fight. You would know this if you did the homework several contributors recommended, such as learning what was exposed during the trial.

Truth, you're just a sheep, willing to buy the easy and half baked answers offered by the ivory tower instead of rolling up your sleeves and digging to the bottom. Yawn. You bore me.
As the OCSO whitewashes the so-called "after action" report and with no hard deadline for its release, you'll fall deeper into their trap of lies.

Let's ask some questions? Truth, please answer the following:
Just what has the OCSO been doing with the report all of this time? Why more delay? Why hasn't a truly independent investigation been performed? Doesn't it appear odd that the agency being investigated (the OCSO) has the ability to redact statements in an investigation?

Just look at what Swenszkowski said in the Utica OD article published today,“We want to set a time for review involving some of the people that were part of the incident to check the factual aspects for any discrepancies and to make sure everything is accurate, and to check for any content that might compromise officer safety that needs to be redacted”.

A REAL after action report would have collected and examined all available evidence and testimony. There is no need for further review. What Swenszkowski means is they want to doctor the findings to completely cover their butts before the report is released.

Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?
BumpBump

United States

#107 Nov 19, 2013
Boy they sure love klikking the little X's all within 2 minutes of my posts! Touch a nerve did we girls?
Wrong wrote:
<quoted text>Where did anyone say there was some law that said it was "legal"? You keep putting words in people's mouths I notice. And it's usually some stupid idea only you thought up. If you woke up in an instant and were in that guy's shoes obviously the law has, once again, broken down. You must have missed the epidemic of triggerhappy almost-cops killing people across the US. Not Canada, not Italy, the US. So obviously right there this is a "problem2" at the feet of US law enforcement. SO regardless of who's fault, why or where if that was you the only other alternative I guess is to, believing you are being shot at by many people at close range, lay down and die.
Remember moron, everyday across the US better trained and capable real police seem to handle "suicidal guy with a gun" calls without getting cops killed in disorganized clownshows. So where are you going with this? Your excuse making while claiming to be this unbiased observer who "just wants to know" is getting thinner with each hair-brained defense. Nobody here, cop or otherwise would ever end up in that moment but if they did, you think you are being shot by the gunhappy police they shove in everyone's face. Have your ever been in a gunfight? Unfortunately I have. Much longer ones almost every day. Last time I checked there's really no laws in gunfights, like war. You shoot at me I don't care what page you're on I'm going to hose you.
Now back to the report. Maciol stated he'd do a review and make the results public. As others have asked, "were we wrong to believe him"? It isn't "too much" to ask that a County Official should keep to his words. It has been over two fucking years. Excuses and puppets won't change it. No amount of money or campaigning or awards can change it. He's simply being asked to do as he stated when he needed relief, desperate just like McNamara. Now the Wyman family has shunned accountability and the Marines and just played along with this freakshow despite fatman throwing him under the bus, only to dust him off two days later to give him an award at a totally contrived BS press release designed to stick cops and their dying "sacrifice" in everyone's face. ALL FOR AN INCIDENT THAT A BETTER MAN WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED! In the navy they would take that mofoqker DOWN FOR GOOD one way or the other for that. If he's done so well, and his department has all these excuses... then why are they afraid of releasing it?
The fact is the two aren't mutually exclusive, recognizing this as the clusterfck it is doesn't mean you agree that it was ok for Patterson to be getting drunk and stupid with guns. I notice the DA and anyone defending these azzholes always seems to pretend that it does. You resent people who play stupid for their own benefits so much. God forbid the pu55y local media there would ever address THIS one!
This isn't going away and may eventually become the trigger for some really ugly shyt in the future. Not all of us are as blind or so forgiving.

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