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41 - 60 of 92 Comments Last updated Feb 26, 2013
Moving Parts

New Hartford, NY

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#41
Feb 25, 2013
 

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Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
So if the motives you outlined here are true...why is this bad?
It's not bad! The issue becomes sustainability of hockey. Although, I prefer AHL Vs. college, I'm also a realist who's lived here since the 70's and watched the comets, mohawks, blizzard, stars, bulldogs, devils and probably a few others come and go where profit was the motive. I'm not against profit at all. But, it has to be in the right market. UC hockey is the perfect fit for our area.

The deal makers are in it for the money-understandably so. The end user customer is in it for the final product.

UC hockey is subsidized by the college which has allowed it to grow and develop. The potential for our area is much greater as the college could attract talented enrollees with it's program which if nurtured right could be a huge local labor force and pave the way for future high paying jobs.

The only winners with the AHL are gonna be the deal makers and the profiteers behind the scenes. That's how our are has always operated and why we can't seem to get out of our own way. This is history repeating itself. Have we not learned from past mistakes? Are we all so quick to believe the hype.

C'mon Tom Clark has his name all over UC and he's gonna play this from both sides under the guise of it being a good thing. Just watch. UC Hockey is on the verge of something big here and Gary Heenan et al. should be proud.

My predictions:

Gary jumps ship to coach the AHL Team
UC Hockey goes homeless
New buildings get built and the rich get richer
AHL team leaves in 5 years
UC Hockey goes down hill

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Clifton Park, NY

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#42
Feb 25, 2013
 
Moving Parts wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not bad! The issue becomes sustainability of hockey. Although, I prefer AHL Vs. college, I'm also a realist who's lived here since the 70's and watched the comets, mohawks, blizzard, stars, bulldogs, devils and probably a few others come and go where profit was the motive. I'm not against profit at all. But, it has to be in the right market. UC hockey is the perfect fit for our area.
The deal makers are in it for the money-understandably so. The end user customer is in it for the final product.
UC hockey is subsidized by the college which has allowed it to grow and develop. The potential for our area is much greater as the college could attract talented enrollees with it's program which if nurtured right could be a huge local labor force and pave the way for future high paying jobs.
The only winners with the AHL are gonna be the deal makers and the profiteers behind the scenes. That's how our are has always operated and why we can't seem to get out of our own way. This is history repeating itself. Have we not learned from past mistakes? Are we all so quick to believe the hype.
C'mon Tom Clark has his name all over UC and he's gonna play this from both sides under the guise of it being a good thing. Just watch. UC Hockey is on the verge of something big here and Gary Heenan et al. should be proud.
My predictions:
Gary jumps ship to coach the AHL Team
UC Hockey goes homeless
New buildings get built and the rich get richer
AHL team leaves in 5 years
UC Hockey goes down hill
I certainly do not share your vision of how this is going to play out.
Moving Parts

New Hartford, NY

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#43
Feb 25, 2013
 

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I guess this is where we can respectfully agree to disagree. You're the optimist and I'm the realist.

Would anyone like to add their 2 cents or make some predictions?
Saucy

Watertown, NY

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#44
Feb 25, 2013
 
Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it. My prediction? Another BOHICA moment for Utica taxpayers. Bend Over Here It Comes Again. And then the AHL team leaves. Good night now.
Moving Parts

New Hartford, NY

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#45
Feb 25, 2013
 

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Saucy wrote:
Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it. My prediction? Another BOHICA moment for Utica taxpayers. Bend Over Here It Comes Again. And then the AHL team leaves. Good night now.
Unfortunately, this has been all too common. I don't think most folks are against progress or profits for that matter, but we have heard this same story over and over from our local leaders - it's a good thing we're told!

Again, college hockey works here as it does with Colgate University and Hamilton College. Couple that with a winning team and it fits our market.

The AHL deal will be primarily good for those looking to line their pockets. If I had a way of making some money on it, I'd be telling you it's good too. The only one's saying that it's good are the one's who are going to benefit. Show us the trickle down economics and a marketing plan that makes sense and let's see.

To date UC, is the only organization that can make it work for the reasons that I previously spelled out.

Just watch. Greenman field or SUNY IT will have a new ice rink soon. It's coming. Gaetano construction is waiting. It will be partially/fully subsidized by the colleges and/or taxpayers! My only fear is that if it's built on the land around SUNY owned by Angela Elefante, she'll have your car towed when you least expect it.
Just Move On

Latham, NY

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#46
Feb 25, 2013
 

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moving parts wrote:
The deal is wreaking havoc for UC hockey. Gary Heenan has been a success and is now a major commodity as well as he knows it. This could be his huge break! UC hockey has been a success because games are limited to weekends which ensures a large crowd. Tickets are practically given away for next to nothing. The aud makes money on rent and food/beer concessions. UC as a whole is secure because they are a private college with some bucks.
Now enter the Esche for profit venture in Utica where games will be held on week nights as well and there will be a higher ticket pricing structure. Since the demise of the Devils, regional incomes have substantially declined including Utica, where 25% or more of its people live in poverty. UC hockey works for the reasons outlined. AHL can't!
Who wins here? The Aud Authority only cares about big bucks and long term guarantees.
Who Loses? UC will be forced to eventually build their own ice rink.
Who really wins big? My prediction: Tom Clark, Adirondack Bank and Gaetano Construction
Tom is a UC Board member and major benefactor to the college. Son Rob is a pal of Esches and has sports team ownership experience. Adirondack Bank will be involved somehow. Can you see the conflict brewing. Gets better. UC will be forced into building a new rink. Guess who is also a major benefactor to the college?
This is NOT about bringing hockey to the area and making it work! This is about tapping into UC's pockets, land sales, financing and new construction.
The usual suspects are looking at ways to line their pockets. Aside from the fans here, UC will be the loser and the party who's extorted into construction.
You are an idiot. This has nothing to do with UC hockey. Rob Esche is loyal to this area and he is trying to bring competition from the second best league in the US and Canada back to the Utica Area and all you can worry about is Gerry Heenan and UC Hockey. How sad is that that UC Hockey and Gary Heenan is the great hockey comidity for this area. Not to put down UC hockey buts its ok hockey and AHL is graet hockey and there is no comparison between the two. Let me say it this way to illustrate the difference - you will never see a Utica College Hockey player or in fact Gary Heenan make it to the AHL level much less the NHL level. But you will see AHL level players that will someday make to the NHL play for the Utica Flames! Cant be anymore easier to understand than that. So what type of product do you want to watch and support. I think its a no brainer. Go Flames
Just Move On

Latham, NY

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#47
Feb 25, 2013
 

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Meant GREAT Hockey - my thumbs are too big for my iphone
Moving Parts

New Hartford, NY

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#48
Feb 25, 2013
 
Just Move On wrote:
<quoted text>You are an idiot. This has nothing to do with UC hockey. Rob Esche is loyal to this area and he is trying to bring competition from the second best league in the US and Canada back to the Utica Area and all you can worry about is Gerry Heenan and UC Hockey. How sad is that that UC Hockey and Gary Heenan is the great hockey comidity for this area. Not to put down UC hockey buts its ok hockey and AHL is graet hockey and there is no comparison between the two. Let me say it this way to illustrate the difference - you will never see a Utica College Hockey player or in fact Gary Heenan make it to the AHL level much less the NHL level. But you will see AHL level players that will someday make to the NHL play for the Utica Flames! Cant be anymore easier to understand than that. So what type of product do you want to watch and support. I think its a no brainer. Go Flames
So, that's what you tell me when you don't like my opinion.

1.) Never said Rob Esche wasn't loyal. In fact I commend his efforts.

2.) Never said College hockey as a whole was better than AHL

3.) Never said I was worried about Gary Heenan and UC Hockey

I would have expected at least a little bit more intelligence in your response and less emotion. You're the type to cry that our public leaders mislead us long after you had a chance to voice a concern. Come back with the intellect next time or perhaps you should be the one just moving on. Sorry, but everything that I've said today aside from predictions can be backed by verifiable facts. But, you knew that already.
Da Law

Ilion, NY

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#49
Feb 25, 2013
 
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Past failures do not predict future success. It's up to the utica community to make this work.
No, it's not. And it's exactly that attitude that has caused the repeated failure of multiple sports franchises in Utica.

The "community" has absolutely zero obligation to a team. None. Nada. Every time we hear "we didn't get the support we expected from the community", and there have been many, it's an indictment against the ineffective management of the franchise. It's *their* job, not mine, to make the team a success.
slapanut

Utica, NY

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#50
Feb 25, 2013
 

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It wouldn't surprise me if Utica College hockey outsells tickets than the supposed "incoming" AHL team.
Martin

Watertown, NY

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#51
Feb 25, 2013
 
I'm all for getting an AHL team here IF the investors don't hoodwink unsuspecting taxpayers like me to foot any of THEIR expenses before or after the deal. The investors think an AHL team can make it here? Great. Let THEM foot the bill....every freaking penny.... and not leave us city/county taxpayers with the bill if/when the team bolts.
Fan

Watertown, NY

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#52
Feb 25, 2013
 
I'm a season ticket holder and UC hockey, to the best of my knowledge, has not ever asked me to pay more taxes whether they win, lose, or drop the sport.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Clifton Park, NY

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#53
Feb 25, 2013
 

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Like I posted before the deal is done and the funding set. I can not name names at this point but I did promise to by at the latest April 1st.

What gets kind of lost is the devils were successful here. The reason they left was quite simple. The devils moved the affiliation to Albany because of the deal they were given for the new knickerbocker arena (opened in 1990). The utica franchise was bought and moved to a location the flames thought would work better for them. That was their right. There was also a move at the time in the ahl for teams in larger markets like the Ihl was doing. The ahl is the feeder league to the NHL and bigger markets don't want feeder teams...teams that no matter how well the team is playing the parent club always comes first. Utica left, adirondack left, Binghamton left, hell even Rochester almost lost their team which was holy out there. That mindset has changed in the ahl.

The subsequent franchises failed after the devils for two main reasons. The owners were underfunded and they had a lot of negative sentiment towards those teams and those leagues. I very clearly remember hearing people complaining about how bad the hockey was, how they weren't going to go because its not the caliber of the devils, it all was just doomed to fail from what was previously here.

Attendances at UC games has done nothing but prove there is a passion for hockey in the area. The games will be affordable for the new team and it will be extremely professionally run by proven leaders. I'm anxious and wish the announcement dare would just..
hope it works

Utica, NY

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#55
Feb 25, 2013
 

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As much as i would love to see this happen I just don't see this area supporting an AHL franchise. Why does UC work?$5 tickets Why won't this work $25 tickets!!!
moving parts

Brooklyn, NY

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#56
Feb 25, 2013
 

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hope it works wrote:
As much as i would love to see this happen I just don't see this area supporting an AHL franchise. Why does UC work?$5 tickets Why won't this work $25 tickets!!!
Sadly, we've come 360 degrees and you are exactly right. What bothers me is public officials who jump on board and can't seem to understand, the public isn't buying into self-enrichment schemes funded by the tax payer and sold as win-win deals.
New hottford

Hartford, CT

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#57
Feb 25, 2013
 

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The tix won't be anywhere near 26 dollars a piece .....jerk

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Clifton Park, NY

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#58
Feb 25, 2013
 
hope it works wrote:
As much as i would love to see this happen I just don't see this area supporting an AHL franchise. Why does UC work?$5 tickets Why won't this work $25 tickets!!!
What makes you think the ticket price will be 25 dollars?

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Clifton Park, NY

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#59
Feb 25, 2013
 
The Albany paper finally reported it. Welcome to the party guys! Lol

http://blog.timesunion.com/hockey/utica-paper...
moving parts

Utica, NY

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#60
Feb 25, 2013
 

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Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>What makes you think the ticket price will be 25 dollars?
Because most for profit operations can't exist with tickets priced much less than $20. That's what we've all been fed in the past with pro sports. It would be reasonable to charge $25 and I think most people would respect the costs associated with a pro team. But in our region(one of the most economically depressed) it makes no sense.
Really

Utica, NY

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#61
Feb 25, 2013
 

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Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think the ticket price will be 25 dollars?
Check out the AHL ticket prices in the Northeast. Rochester is lowest at $12, but that is a subsidized cost. Take out Rochester,( Im not willing to pay for your ticket), and the average AHL ticket is $20. Don't agree? Google it!
The MV does not have the disposable income to afford thst cost.

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