Refugee buys a Home, All Closing cost...
Truth

Herkimer, NY

#46 Feb 14, 2014
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text> right! Your statement is not only racist. It's just plain stupid. Hint... What color are the Bosnians? Let me guess , you're also a gun toting birther too, right?
I don't think you understood what I wrote. Please re=read my comment.

I said that the Bosnians,(they are just the latest group to do this) within a relatively short time in the U.S. have blown by the black and hispanic populations that have been here for generations economically. I find it interesting. That's not racist. It's a fact.

Why do you think that is? Is it a right wing conspiracy to keep the black and hispanic populations down or is it somethig else?
change

Wadsworth, IL

#47 Feb 14, 2014
Dave wrote:
I just sold my home in Utica (Thank God ) I am signing all the paper work needed to complete the sale, I noticed paper work for buyer closing cost, Grant money payed their closing cost,
I ask what does this means, Was told that ALL Refugee are entitled to grant money for closing cost. So tax payers money
Pretty sad that money is stolen from people who worked for years to be handed to people who haven't.
Ben Gleck

Utica, NY

#48 Feb 14, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think you understood what I wrote. Please re=read my comment.
I said that the Bosnians,(they are just the latest group to do this) within a relatively short time in the U.S. have blown by the black and hispanic populations that have been here for generations economically. I find it interesting. That's not racist. It's a fact.
Why do you think that is? Is it a right wing conspiracy to keep the black and hispanic populations down or is it somethig else?
OK try to follow along, my dim witted friend. Blacks and Puerto Ricans are descendants of slaves. Their relatives have been brutalized, exploited, and dehumanized for hundreds of years. Are you so dense as to not understand the effects of that? And if you think racism is dead in America, just read the posts that appear here constantly. In fact ,read your own imbecilic post. I am a sixty five year old former Marine and combat veteran. I am not poor. I am a businessman. And I think you and the rest of your idiotic right wing stooges are the biggest threat to American democracy. You pose as some kind of independent thinker, yet all you do is blame the poor. You make no mention of the horrendous behavior of the banks, or the sick plutocracy that has taken control of our country. Sure the unions share some of the blame. But, if you think that's the whole story, you are just plain stupid. You have absolutely no understanding of the Citizen' s . United decision. What a pompous phony.

When you stop blathering about the poor and start talking about the real criminals, we can talk.
teo cormac

Syracuse, NY

#49 Feb 15, 2014
What a sad little creature Mr Gleck is,

He can't rebut what has been presented on this thread so he goes for the cliched leftist tropes: Racist, heartless, stupid, yada yada...and then he tops it off with his fantasy businessman/war hero schtick as if that gives him some sort of immunity for his rude and condescending opinions. Of course Gleck's opinions are ridiculous and his appeal to authority is specious.

The left is just not as good as they were in they 20th century. Back then they really knew how to "otherize" people. They called them scurrilous names, blamed all problems on them and eventually starved them, shot them, enslaved them and gassed them.

Did I mention that they all were leaders who spoke as Ben Gleck does.

Oh and they were all leftists just like Mr Gleck mouthing contempt and condescension for those they disagreed with.

The murdering leftist scum that they were.
teo cormac

Syracuse, NY

#53 Feb 15, 2014
As far as the revolving rumors about how refugees abuse the system it is mostly BS. As has been pointed out earlier if you go through certain programs you can get your closing costs paid regardless if you are native born or a refugee.

This nonsense has run rampant for years and raises its ugly head occasionally here on topix.

Some one earlier has pointed out that if there hadn't been an influx of refugees that Utica would be a much smaller city and he is correct. Refugees can be expensive as far as social services are concerned but there is a positive side for the community in that their offspring tend to do well as they become more Americanized.

Many neighborhoods have benefited when refugee communities locate there not to mention all the great ethnic markets that have brought new and interesting foods and culture to what was becoming a very dull market.

Compared to so many native born people that have become permanent wards of the state the refugee population often understands that hard work pays off. They have extended families that have not been destroyed (yet) by the machinations of bureaucratic dependency.

Whenever I see a post here declaring the refugees get all these perks that are not available to the average American I cringe because of the abject stupidity of it all.
Larry Flabbermouth Joshef

Cuba, MO

#54 Feb 15, 2014
The more refuges the better, this way there's more waste, global warming, less jobs for the people here and more obama can steal.

Look at it this way, we spent a billion to keep the Mexicans out but we flood the place with Muslims like my masser obama.

So if you have 10 people and 9 jobs, you follod the place and have 30 people and 9 jobs.

GOOOOOOOOOO masser obama, keep spending more on a fence to keep them out.

Hail masser.

CRETIN.
osama hole in head

San Diego, CA

#56 Feb 15, 2014
Larry Flabbermouth Joshef wrote:
The more refuges the better, this way there's more waste, global warming, less jobs for the people here and more obama can steal.
Look at it this way, we spent a billion to keep the Mexicans out but we flood the place with Muslims like my masser obama.
So if you have 10 people and 9 jobs, you follod the place and have 30 people and 9 jobs.
GOOOOOOOOOO masser obama, keep spending more on a fence to keep them out.
Hail masser.
CRETIN.
Funny, there destroying the USA, time for them and Obama to GTFO.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#58 Feb 16, 2014
The long term plans of the modern day conservative have come to fruition, including convincing the middle class to blame the poor for our current state of affairs.
As the affects of the "new deal" made apparent the middle class' ability to become politically and socially active, conservative thinkers became concerned. From Fred Koch and his wealthy cohorts creating the John Birch society in 1958 to Lewis Powell's memo to the chamber of commerce in 1971 and his subsequent appointment to the Supreme Court, Conservatives have been playing the long game.
It is no surprise corporations are now completely in control of our political system our trade policies and our War machine.
It is ironic that it has been the extreme right wing calling for "revolution" for the past few years, albeit for the wrong reasons.
We do indeed live in interesting times.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#59 Feb 16, 2014
teo cormac wrote:
As far as the revolving rumors about how refugees abuse the system it is mostly BS. As has been pointed out earlier if you go through certain programs you can get your closing costs paid regardless if you are native born or a refugee.
This nonsense has run rampant for years and raises its ugly head occasionally here on topix.
Some one earlier has pointed out that if there hadn't been an influx of refugees that Utica would be a much smaller city and he is correct. Refugees can be expensive as far as social services are concerned but there is a positive side for the community in that their offspring tend to do well as they become more Americanized.
Many neighborhoods have benefited when refugee communities locate there not to mention all the great ethnic markets that have brought new and interesting foods and culture to what was becoming a very dull market.
Compared to so many native born people that have become permanent wards of the state the refugee population often understands that hard work pays off. They have extended families that have not been destroyed (yet) by the machinations of bureaucratic dependency.
Whenever I see a post here declaring the refugees get all these perks that are not available to the average American I cringe because of the abject stupidity of it all.
you just can't help yourself can you?

"Compared to so many native born people that have become permanent wards of the state the refugee population often understands that hard work pays off."

"They have extended families that have not been destroyed (yet) by the machinations of bureaucratic dependency."

Can you honestly not see the difference between groups? The crushing affects of institutionalized racism, the inability of some to get out from under the crushing morass of what a life of poverty carries with it?
This is a perfect example of what is wrong with this so called "christian" society.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#61 Feb 17, 2014
Hey Touchole wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, I'm talkin to YOU fcknutts! I'm sick of seeing your mindless, sheep-like kool aid drinking spew on here! You're NOT as intelligent as you PRETEND or else you wouldn't buy into or support the disgusting vile propaganda programming you do! It's very obvious even my 6 year old, reetarded baby girl pointed it out this morning!
Wow! Quite the intellectual post. Your poor child is doomed.
Truth

Utica, NY

#62 Feb 17, 2014
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text> OK try to follow along, my dim witted friend. Blacks and Puerto Ricans are descendants of slaves. Their relatives have been brutalized, exploited, and dehumanized for hundreds of years. Are you so dense as to not understand the effects of that? And if you think racism is dead in America, just read the posts that appear here constantly. In fact ,read your own imbecilic post. I am a sixty five year old former Marine and combat veteran. I am not poor. I am a businessman. And I think you and the rest of your idiotic right wing stooges are the biggest threat to American democracy. You pose as some kind of independent thinker, yet all you do is blame the poor. You make no mention of the horrendous behavior of the banks, or the sick plutocracy that has taken control of our country. Sure the unions share some of the blame. But, if you think that's the whole story, you are just plain stupid. You have absolutely no understanding of the Citizen' s . United decision. What a pompous phony.
When you stop blathering about the poor and start talking about the real criminals, we can talk.
You're wrong. I do not blame the poor. As I've said time and again I think it's our(meaning our society) responsibility to help those who are truly in need. The question is - what constitutes poor? Is poor "I don't have food, clothing and shelter" or has the definition changed to "I don't have a cell phone, a car and I can't afford a North Face jacket"? President Lyndon Johnson's war on poverty (part of his Great Society concept) started 50 years and trillions of dollars ago. We're still losing the war. The reason that it seen by many as a failure is that the definition of poor has become a moving target. It's a moving target thanks to people who think like you and politicians(who you probably support) who create and nurture dependence on government in order to get votes. In my opinion the real criminals are those who created the entitlement mentality.

As far as the suffering of blacks I have a question. How long do we use and accept slavery as an excuse for the failure of blacks to succeed in terms of the economy? The civil war ended 150 years ago. I hate making blanket statements about any group and I obviously know that there are blacks who have succeeded and done great things in business. They are the exception though and not the rule. If you are truly a businessman then you are aware of all of the affirmative action programs available to help blacks overcome hurdles created by racism. Programs designed to help you as a businessman and to help minorities. In light of that, why don't we see more success? Why is that a wave of Asian immigrants can come to this country without even knowing the language and in a relatively short period of time start businesses and become successful taxpaying members of society?
Truth

Utica, NY

#63 Feb 17, 2014
Ben Gleck wrote:
<quoted text> OK try to follow along, my dim witted friend. Blacks and Puerto Ricans are descendants of slaves. Their relatives have been brutalized, exploited, and dehumanized for hundreds of years. Are you so dense as to not understand the effects of that? And if you think racism is dead in America, just read the posts that appear here constantly. In fact ,read your own imbecilic post. I am a sixty five year old former Marine and combat veteran. I am not poor. I am a businessman. And I think you and the rest of your idiotic right wing stooges are the biggest threat to American democracy. You pose as some kind of independent thinker, yet all you do is blame the poor. You make no mention of the horrendous behavior of the banks, or the sick plutocracy that has taken control of our country. Sure the unions share some of the blame. But, if you think that's the whole story, you are just plain stupid. You have absolutely no understanding of the Citizen' s . United decision. What a pompous phony.
When you stop blathering about the poor and start talking about the real criminals, we can talk.
In my original post I said I found that interesting and wonder about it. I guess we can't have that conversation though because it's not politically correct and to avoid having the conversation I'm labeled racist. I'd like to suggest some reading. Take a look at the writings of Dr. Thomas Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams. They are both economists and have written extensively about this. They both happen to be black. Not that it matters but I think if you read them without knowing that you'd call them racist.

I don't think racism is dead and I'm disgusted with all of the ignorant racist posts here in the forum. Since they are allowed I do what I think most people do, ignore them.

I'm not posing as anything. I'm not part of any lemming mentality and I don't buy completely into any political party's platform. I read everything I can and don't avoid things just because I don't agree with them. The things I've written here come from me. I rely the history and the writings of people much more intelligent than me in forming my opinions. If you can show me beyond any doubt that I am wrong headed in my thinking then I'd really like you to show me that. I have to insist on facts rather than emotion and name calling though.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#64 Feb 17, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>

As far as the suffering of blacks I have a question. How long do we use and accept slavery as an excuse for the failure of blacks to succeed in terms of the economy? The civil war ended 150 years ago. I hate making blanket statements about any group and I obviously know that there are blacks who have succeeded and done great things in business. They are the exception though and not the rule. If you are truly a businessman then you are aware of all of the affirmative action programs available to help blacks overcome hurdles created by racism. Programs designed to help you as a businessman and to help minorities. In light of that, why don't we see more success? Why is that a wave of Asian immigrants can come to this country without even knowing the language and in a relatively short period of time start businesses and become successful taxpaying members of society?
As inspiring as it is to hear an individual who claims "i don't see color". I suggest you read "how the Irish became white". Then ask your ridiculous question again.
Truth

Utica, NY

#65 Feb 17, 2014
Bodhisatva wrote:
<quoted text>As inspiring as it is to hear an individual who claims "i don't see color". I suggest you read "how the Irish became white". Then ask your ridiculous question again.
Based on your response I have to ask. Is the plight of blacks then simply because of their skin color then? That's ridiculous.

Let's talk about the world over the past 50 years. Do you really believe the Irish type racism of 150+ years ago is still carrying over and having an effect today? That book is about Irish Catholics (discriminated against because of their religion more than anything else) coming to Protestant dominated America pre-Civil War. Is that the best you do to answer my question?

I see color just like everyone else does. I'm simply asking a question. Why is it that wave after wave of immigrants have come to the U.S. and one by one passed blacks and Hispanics economically? I don't know the answer. That's why I asked the question. There must be a reason that goes beyond the color of their skin.
Truth

Utica, NY

#66 Feb 17, 2014
Bodhisatva wrote:
<quoted text>As inspiring as it is to hear an individual who claims "i don't see color". I suggest you read "how the Irish became white". Then ask your ridiculous question again.
Why exactly is the question ridiculous? Please explain.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#67 Feb 17, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Based on your response I have to ask. Is the plight of blacks then simply because of their skin color then? That's ridiculous.
Let's talk about the world over the past 50 years. Do you really believe the Irish type racism of 150+ years ago is still carrying over and having an effect today? That book is about Irish Catholics (discriminated against because of their religion more than anything else) coming to Protestant dominated America pre-Civil War. Is that the best you do to answer my question?
I see color just like everyone else does. I'm simply asking a question. Why is it that wave after wave of immigrants have come to the U.S. and one by one passed blacks and Hispanics economically? I don't know the answer. That's why I asked the question. There must be a reason that goes beyond the color of their skin.
My Italian speaking Grandmother forbade her children from speaking anything other than English.....once that was done they easily passed as "American" no questions asked, no stigma attached to skin color.
The point about the Irish was that there were certain misconceptions about many immigrants, until they were able to assimilate. There were books and articles written about "criminal genes" about the Irish and Italians. If they were as easily targeted by the color of their skin(as Blacks and Latinos are)these stereo types would still be in play.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#68 Feb 17, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Why exactly is the question ridiculous? Please explain.
Try Again.

Irish Catholics came to this country as an oppressed race yet quickly learned that to succeed they had to in turn oppress their closest social class competitors, free Northern blacks. Back home these "native Irish or papists" suffered something very similar to American slavery under English Penal Laws. Yet, despite their revolutionary roots as an oppressed group fighting for freedom and rights, and despite consistent pleas from the great Catholic emancipator, Daniel O'Connell, to support the abolitionists, the newly arrived Irish-Americans judged that the best way of gaining acceptance as good citizens and to counter the Nativist movement was to cooperate in the continued oppression of African Americans. Ironically, at the same time they were collaborating with the dominant culture to block abolition, they were garnering support from among Southern, slaveholding democrats for Repeal of the oppressive English Act of the Union back home. Some even convinced themselves that abolition was an English plot to weaken this country.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#69 Feb 17, 2014
Irish and Africans Americans had lots in common and lots of contact during this period; they lived side by side and shared work spaces. In the early years of immigration the poor Irish and blacks were thrown together, very much part of the same class competing for the same jobs. In the census of 1850, the term mulatto appears for the first time due primarily to inter-marriage between Irish and African Americans. The Irish were often referred to as "Negroes turned inside out and Negroes as smoked Irish." A famous quip of the time attributed to a black man went something like this: "My master is a great tyrant, he treats me like a common Irishman." Free blacks and Irish were viewed by the Nativists as related, somehow similar, performing the same tasks in society. It was felt that if amalgamation between the races was to happen, it would happen between Irish and blacks. But, ultimately, the Irish made the decision to embrace whiteness, thus becoming part of the system which dominated and oppressed blacks. Although it contradicted their experience back home, it meant freedom here since blackness meant slavery.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#70 Feb 17, 2014
An article by a black writer in an 1860 edition of the Liberator explained how the Irish ultimately attained their objectives: "Fifteen or twenty years ago, a Catholic priest in Philadelphia said to the Irish people in that city,'You are all poor, and chiefly laborers, the blacks are poor laborers; many of the native whites are laborers; now, if you wish to succeed, you must do everything that they do, no matter how degrading, and do it for less than they can afford to do it for.' The Irish adopted this plan; they lived on less than the Americans could live upon, and worked for less, and the result is, that nearly all the menial employments are monopolized by the Irish, who now get as good prices as anybody. There were other avenues open to American white men, and though they have suffered much, the chief support of the Irish has come from the places from which we have been crowded."

Once the Irish secured themselves in those jobs, they made sure blacks were kept out. They realized that as long as they continued to work alongside blacks, they would be considered no different. Later, as Irish became prominent in the labor movement, African Americans were excluded from participation. In fact, one of the primary themes of How the Irish Became White is the way in which left labor historians, such as the highly acclaimed Herbert Gutman, have not paid sufficient attention to the problem of race in the development of the labor movement.

Level 7

Since: Mar 11

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#71 Feb 17, 2014
And so, we have the tragic story of how one oppressed "race," Irish Catholics, learned how to collaborate in the oppression of another "race," Africans in America, in order to secure their place in the white republic. Becoming white meant losing their greenness, i.e., their Irish cultural heritage and the legacy of oppression and discrimination back home. Imagine if the Irish had remained green after their arrival and formed an alliance with their fellow oppressed co-workers, the free blacks of the North. Imagine if they had chosen to include their black brothers and sisters in the union movement to wage a class battle against the dominant white culture which ruthlessly pitted them against one another.

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