UCSD laying off 18-20 teachers
Truth

Herkimer, NY

#21 Dec 14, 2012
hey truth wrote:
I saw you today. You didnt sa hello.I see you are at it again. You know! Bashing teachers. I hope someone doesnt start to bash,and I mean BASH the truth!
Is my post a bash?
I thought I presented a point of view and backed it up with facts in response to a post I didn't agree with.

Did you see any name calling, bad language or threats in there?

Where was it you saw me? Say hello next time. I'm always happy to meet new people.
reddit

Bedford, MA

#22 Dec 14, 2012
Truth,
Stay on topic. This post is in regards to teachers being laid off,but no mention of the bigwigs downtown. Any post with teachers involved always finds you pulling slanted opinions/articles that slant against teachers.
Honestly

New Hartford, NY

#23 Dec 14, 2012
@ "Truth". I'm married to a teacher. I know what she goes trough on a daily basis because I see it and I talk to her. I'm also the parent of school age children. It's really not that hard to see. You on the other hand are just spouting bullshit sans insight.
Truth

Utica, NY

#24 Dec 14, 2012
reddit wrote:
Truth,
Stay on topic. This post is in regards to teachers being laid off,but no mention of the bigwigs downtown. Any post with teachers involved always finds you pulling slanted opinions/articles that slant against teachers.
I didn't steer the conversation in this direction. It was a poster called "Really" who gave an empassioned, what we initally thought was a first hand, account of how hard teachers work. The only link I posted on this thread was to the UCSD calander. I used it to do a fact based comaprison between teachers and other workers. It was in response to the assertions of the poster (who initailly posted as though he/she was a teacher) about how hard teachers have it and that they probably work more that other workers when you get right down to it. His/her assertion was false and I proved it. How exactly is that slanted and why not scold the poster who actually took the conversation in this direction.

Just so you know, I also believe that public school administrator compensation and benefits are out of hand as well. If you look back through what I've posted regarding the state of compensation in the public schools I have very often referred to teacher/adminstrator unions as a problem.

Since you believe that I post only "slanted" articles that support my point of view the why don't you or the others who agree with you post articles that prove me wrong. I've asked for that several times and yet all I get is name calling and bad language.

Public opinion is changing in favor of my point of view I think. More people every day are realizing what is happening in public education and don't like it. Every year school budgets go up and up while outcomes are in decline. People are paying more attention and finding that teacher/adminstrator compensation is driving the increases while at the same time the rest of society is having to make sacrifices.

Prove me wrong. Use facts though. Emotional rants void of facts are just hot air meant to obscure the real problems.
Truth

Utica, NY

#25 Dec 14, 2012
Honestly wrote:
@ "Truth". I'm married to a teacher. I know what she goes trough on a daily basis because I see it and I talk to her. I'm also the parent of school age children. It's really not that hard to see. You on the other hand are just spouting bullshit sans insight.
So you depend on the opinion of someone inside the system for your opinion rather than an objective viewing of the facts. How many Walmart workers are convinced that they could run the company better. Do you think that's true though? My insight comes from my experience and the reasearch I've done on this subject. I welcome you to post information that you feel would sway me. More bad language too I see. Are you able to present a coherent thought without vulgar language? Is that something you use at home and encourage your children to use? Just curious.

If you have school age children then maybe you should review the facts regarding educational outcome and the US's ranking in education when compared with the rest of the world. The days when a high school gradute could get a job at the factory where dad worked, work 40 years and get a pension are gone. Education is more important than ever in this competetive global economy. The truth is that countries that we once though inferior are having our lunch and the root of the problem is public education. Unlike the vast majority of other things, in education the compensation is not based on performance, merit and results. Instead teachers/administrators get tenure and are protected from the market forces that drive everything else. I don't tell anyone else what to say or think so I won't say you should be worried for your children's future. I'll just say that I worry about the future of mine.
reddit

Bedford, MA

#26 Dec 14, 2012
I saw somewhere that the statistics are skewed in terms of where the US ranks because we educated all our children. We don't ship those who can't succeed off to trade schools or directly into menial public works positions. Public support odd education plays a huge role in the success of students. In societies where education is valued those countries do much better. China, japan,india, and the nordic countries. It is people like you, Truth, who turn every discussion into teachers have it made. They are fairly compensated and should be ok when they retire. I don't think any teacher will say that they don't have it pretty good. I think their issue is the manatees set forth by the state and the lack of finding to fulfill those mandates. Utica is a mess. We have no infrastructure home ownership is down. The value of homes are down and as a result, the tax base is not what it once was. Our city cannot keep up with the costs of doing business but it is not all an Kassie of compensation taking too much out of the account. We are not getting the fair amount of finding that NYS was ordered to pay.
Truth

Utica, NY

#27 Dec 14, 2012
reddit wrote:
I saw somewhere that the statistics are skewed in terms of where the US ranks because we educated all our children. We don't ship those who can't succeed off to trade schools or directly into menial public works positions. Public support odd education plays a huge role in the success of students. In societies where education is valued those countries do much better. China, japan,india, and the nordic countries. It is people like you, Truth, who turn every discussion into teachers have it made. They are fairly compensated and should be ok when they retire. I don't think any teacher will say that they don't have it pretty good. I think their issue is the manatees set forth by the state and the lack of finding to fulfill those mandates. Utica is a mess. We have no infrastructure home ownership is down. The value of homes are down and as a result, the tax base is not what it once was. Our city cannot keep up with the costs of doing business but it is not all an Kassie of compensation taking too much out of the account. We are not getting the fair amount of finding that NYS was ordered to pay.
Where is it you read about the statistics being skewed? Was it a teacher or administrator newsletter or a study the commisioned? That is an excuse and not a reason.

All statistical studies use corrections that can bias the outcome. The goal is to evaluate and compare similar datasets. That results in the best analysis. The comparisons most often referred to on this subject without the corrections that bias the study show the US lagging further and further behind every year.

If you examine those countries you say value education you'll find that not all who study to be teachers become teachers. Many of those countries have strict standards and guidelines about who may become a teacher and the constant evaluation to see who will stay a teacher. Unlike the US where everybody gets a trophy and once a teacher gets tenure they are set for life pretty much.

I recently read a study. The headline was "Publc Schools outperform Private Schools". You can guess why that caught my eye. That seemed counterintuitive to me so I looked at the methodolgy. In order to come up with that conclusion the team analyzing the data made corrections for poverty, single parent households, whether the children ate breakfast and a whole host of things that stereotypically we equate with lower income students. They were excluded from the analysis supposedly to level the playing field for puproses of comparison. Of course when you employ methods like this you can pretty come up with any result you want.

In a straight up comaprison of students who walk through the door, take the tests and hopefully advance, public schools lose to private schools and US schools in general lose to many around the world.
Really

Dover, DE

#28 Dec 14, 2012
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't steer the conversation in this direction. It was a poster called "Really" who gave an empassioned, what we initally thought was a first hand, account of how hard teachers work. The only link I posted on this thread was to the UCSD calander. I used it to do a fact based comaprison between teachers and other workers. It was in response to the assertions of the poster (who initailly posted as though he/she was a teacher) about how hard teachers have it and that they probably work more that other workers when you get right down to it. His/her assertion was false and I proved it. How exactly is that slanted and why not scold the poster who actually took the conversation in this direction.
...Emotional rants void of facts are just hot air meant to obscure the real problems.
First, I never said that I was a teacher in my original post. I did give a first hand account of what I have observed by being in a close relationship with a teacher for over a year now. She has been teaching for 24 years. In the last year, I have gained an understanding of the effort involved with teaching in this state. So basically, my observations of her working at my home nights and weekends and her working in her home nights and weekends, and over the summer, and yes, at times, during student breaks, do not make my statements less than factual.
With your UCSD link and numbers, all you have proven is that you can add and subtract. If you have worked at all in any professional career in your life, you know that professional people often work many hours OUTSIDE of their scheduled days to work. i.e. nights, weekends, holidays, etc.
Also, I was not necessarily trying to make a point that teachers work harder than anyone else, but that they do indeed work just as hard as others, despite the math that people do regarding the "time off".
I base my assertions on all I have observed in the last year. I'd also say that after 24 years of teaching, she is hardly doing what I would call "coasting" through these latter years of a career.
Basically, for myself and my observations, I've learned that it's a difficult profession that is closely monitored and attempted to be controlled by the government, sometimes in non-sensical ways. Just like any profession, there are some who are better at it than others. There are some who take it more seriously than others. As for the administrators compensation and benefits, you may be onto something there. I don't know enough about that. But I do know that teachers work hard for our kids.
The assertion on the part of some posters here that teaching is a part time job where hardly any effort is involved or that the people teaching barely require any intelligence or skill, or education for that matter....that's a bit insulting and offensive.
I'd posit that without these folks putting forth the efforts that many of them put forth, we would be no where as a country. Think about it. Most people couldn't afford to send their kids to a school with tuition, so public school is the only option for most people.
I just don't think we can paint this entire profession with such a broad brush stroke without having any insight into what effort they actually put into it.
Sorry for taking this back off topic again. I just didn't want to be mis-represented in my comments.
There

United States

#29 Dec 14, 2012
jealousy wrote:
will get you nowhere. Now this person who calls themself there,one has to feel sorry for a poor sole like that.This person actually has theignoranceto call a masters degree a 6 yr high school diploma. Only someoe who is JEALOUS would say something so ridiculous. Only someone who is JEALOUS would complain about teachers actually working for a living to put food on their table for their family. Can yu imagine that? Teachers earning a living so they could by groceries,cloth their children,support their spouses,pay national grid and oter utility bills,pay for college education and all other needsof their children and family.You mean to tell me teachers are not working to earn money to pay for your bills and households? HOW DARE THEM!YOU friggin moron get back under the rock you crawled out from under. ou need to get a backhand. You need to get a backhand in front of your kids,thats what you need you stupid tub of shit.
Funny with your grammar and sentence structure you can call me ignorant. I have a PhD in physics and I said a TEACHING MASTERS DEGREE is a six year high school education. Because it requires people to take out federal loans to essentially learn very little. And the unions require the masters so it can make all dependent on the federal government.

By the way you write, I'm sure you have one of these Masters degrees LOL. Again, pathetic
reddit

Boston, MA

#30 Dec 14, 2012
the truth

Carthage, NY

#31 Dec 14, 2012
uses bias information. Anyone could use research favorable to their beliefs. ITs a fact that countries we compete with when comparing education is non comparable. Countries like China and Japan only use selected students in their studies,where the U.S. uses ALL students,incuding students with special needs. This person the truth is so anti teacher that,tha is a big part of the problem in chools today. It is people like the truth who convey this unwarranted,disrespectful attitude toward teachers to their children ,in turn these children display this attitude not only toward teachers,but to administrators and police as well.The truth hides behind all fictious research,but nothing he states applies to our local schools. Before one could actually opinionate one must thoroughly observe a situation,be directly involved before they can formulae an intelligent opinion. No different than a lay person opinionating on procedures that doctors,lawyes,engineers,const ruction issues etc. It is clearly eveident that the truth is a bit deranged and quite jealous of teachers. And,ifthats te case,which to him it is because he continuosly repeats how easy teachers have it their compensation,their work hours their work load etc. To put it quite clear,THen the truth should either shut up or become a teacher. Better yet,Why dont you state your name and run for the school board. The truth is a sorry little person. Hey truth,why dont you explain what teachers do,how they do it,when they do it,explain the new daily lesson plan tremplate,APPR in depth,curriculum,explain and describe all the meetings after school and for what purpose,when progress reports and grades are due writing IEPs ifyou are aspecial education teacher,IST referals,Program reviews Initial reviews,discipline refererals,and the regularly weekly parentcontact log.OH did I mention correcting papers and teasts,and of couse preparing for 10wk,mid term,30wk and finals,and last but not least nys tests. Explain in depth mr truth in strategic form how and when that is done regularly. Now if you provide any information than what was requested all te people on this thread KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE. AND YES,I KNOW WHO YOU ARE. A friend of mine walked by you the other day. Doint bash teachers and maybe,just maybe no one will BASH the truth. Just think about it!
Truth

Utica, NY

#32 Dec 14, 2012
reddit wrote:
http://greatschools.org/studen ts/academic-skills/1075-u-s-st udents-compare.gs
Http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-...
Thank you for the links. I'm familiar with goodschools.org but I've never seent the "Business Week" article. I look forward to reading both.

I really do mean the thank you.
Truth

Utica, NY

#33 Dec 14, 2012
the truth wrote:
uses bias information. Anyone could use research favorable to their beliefs. ITs a fact that countries we compete with when comparing education is non comparable. Countries like China and Japan only use selected students in their studies,where the U.S. uses ALL students,incuding students with special needs. This person the truth is so anti teacher that,tha is a big part of the problem in chools today. It is people like the truth who convey this unwarranted,disrespectful attitude toward teachers to their children ,in turn these children display this attitude not only toward teachers,but to administrators and police as well.The truth hides behind all fictious research,but nothing he states applies to our local schools. Before one could actually opinionate one must thoroughly observe a situation,be directly involved before they can formulae an intelligent opinion. No different than a lay person opinionating on procedures that doctors,lawyes,engineers,const ruction issues etc. It is clearly eveident that the truth is a bit deranged and quite jealous of teachers. And,ifthats te case,which to him it is because he continuosly repeats how easy teachers have it their compensation,their work hours their work load etc. To put it quite clear,THen the truth should either shut up or become a teacher. Better yet,Why dont you state your name and run for the school board. The truth is a sorry little person. Hey truth,why dont you explain what teachers do,how they do it,when they do it,explain the new daily lesson plan tremplate,APPR in depth,curriculum,explain and describe all the meetings after school and for what purpose,when progress reports and grades are due writing IEPs ifyou are aspecial education teacher,IST referals,Program reviews Initial reviews,discipline refererals,and the regularly weekly parentcontact log.OH did I mention correcting papers and teasts,and of couse preparing for 10wk,mid term,30wk and finals,and last but not least nys tests. Explain in depth mr truth in strategic form how and when that is done regularly. Now if you provide any information than what was requested all te people on this thread KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE. AND YES,I KNOW WHO YOU ARE. A friend of mine walked by you the other day. Doint bash teachers and maybe,just maybe no one will BASH the truth. Just think about it!
...and I thank you for this long run on sentence that is very difficult to read. I promise I will read it though.

The one thing I will say is that if you know who I am then please say hello.
sorry

Carthage, NY

#34 Dec 14, 2012
my keyboard is on the blink. The errors are nt intentional.Oh and by the way i did gesture a hello to you. Next time I will make sure you will know for certain that it is I when we cross paths.Keep bashing teachers!Im sure you will EVENTUALL LEARN from YOR MISTAKES! Whats the matter,no bashing of those poor teachers from Sandy Creek? ITS MORONS LIKE YOU WHO ARE PURPETRATORS OF CRIMES LIKE THAT. For all those in sady Creek,the most deepest sympathies and God sent prayers
I hope you dont teach

Syracuse, NY

#35 Dec 14, 2012
sorry wrote:
my keyboard is on the blink. The errors are nt intentional.Oh and by the way i did gesture a hello to you. Next time I will make sure you will know for certain that it is I when we cross paths.Keep bashing teachers!Im sure you will EVENTUALL LEARN from YOR MISTAKES! Whats the matter,no bashing of those poor teachers from Sandy Creek? ITS MORONS LIKE YOU WHO ARE PURPETRATORS OF CRIMES LIKE THAT. For all those in sady Creek,the most deepest sympathies and God sent prayers
Ok, blame it on the keyboard. TRUTH is so "dead-on" with his numbers. I was in the process of doing the same, but he beat me to it. It's a PART TIME job. P E R I O D. No need to argue, no discussion needed. Again, if you are taking work home, you have poor time-management skills. Oh, let's not hear the crap about changing lesson plans. They use the same ones, year in, year out. I had two children in school, two years apart. Went to one of the "better" schools in Utica. In third grade and fifth, the had the same teachers. They did the EXACT same crap, just two years later. So, there was no change in the lesson plans. And, Ill give the teachers some credit.....They were both great teachers. So let's not hear about working all night, correcting tests, enhancing lessons plans, it doesnt need to happen.

I think what really needs to happen is the same direction more and more Colleges and Universities are leaning towards. A technology based education where "real world" solutions to "real world" problems are found. Teachers need to think outside of the box and make our students competitive with those from other countries.

Unions need to look out for our kids and stop listening to the crybaby teachers who think they work too hard and need more time off every day. High school kids get out at what....2:30 ? So, if a teacher started teaching at 8:00 they'd have a SOLID 6.5 hours of teaching in. Half hour lunch, 2 fifteen min breaks get us to 7.5 hours. So I guess they start teaching at 7:30 and get NO free periods during the day. That makes 8 hours. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Like that happens. Reality is its like 8:30 to 2:30 free periods for what ? 183 days a year ? That's a PART TIME job with FULL TIME benefits.
OMG

United States

#36 Dec 14, 2012
Hey truth, go to China in September, live there, then take a test in Chinese in January. Now, being the educated person that you portray, you might not do that bad because you might immerse yourself in the language. Now, take our refugee population at Proctor, particularly the Karen kids from Burma. Most if not all lived in the jungle hiding from getting excecuted by the dictatorship that was hunting them down. They have to take the NYS Regents exams. Their results are those you talk about that are used to compare us to other countries. How about the kids from the Sudan, who were basically nomads, or the Somalians, also hiding from being murdered by the civil war that exists there. I haven't even mentioned the special ed students required to take these state tests. In America, our kids are free to choose to go to Boces to learn a trade. Many who should, don't. Most foreign countries use tests when these kids enter what we call high school, to see who will basically go on to what we call college prep programs. Most of our students at Proctor get free or reduced lunch. This, and the numbers back this, don't equal academic success. I'm sorry but many minorities don't value education. How could they when they face a bleak outlook on what they see every day in their own lives. Not knowing where their next meal is coming from, or where they're going to sleep, or if they even have a bed, or a winter coat, they don't have to share. Yes, I'm a Utica teacher and I will never complain about the kids I teach. Now, shut the fuck up, asshole! You don't have clue.
Clown

Syracuse, NY

#37 Dec 14, 2012
OMG wrote:
Hey truth, go to China in September, live there, then take a test in Chinese in January. Now, being the educated person that you portray, you might not do that bad because you might immerse yourself in the language. Now, take our refugee population at Proctor, particularly the Karen kids from Burma. Most if not all lived in the jungle hiding from getting excecuted by the dictatorship that was hunting them down. They have to take the NYS Regents exams. Their results are those you talk about that are used to compare us to other countries. How about the kids from the Sudan, who were basically nomads, or the Somalians, also hiding from being murdered by the civil war that exists there. I haven't even mentioned the special ed students required to take these state tests. In America, our kids are free to choose to go to Boces to learn a trade. Many who should, don't. Most foreign countries use tests when these kids enter what we call high school, to see who will basically go on to what we call college prep programs. Most of our students at Proctor get free or reduced lunch. This, and the numbers back this, don't equal academic success. I'm sorry but many minorities don't value education. How could they when they face a bleak outlook on what they see every day in their own lives. Not knowing where their next meal is coming from, or where they're going to sleep, or if they even have a bed, or a winter coat, they don't have to share. Yes, I'm a Utica teacher and I will never complain about the kids I teach. Now, shut the fuck up, asshole! You don't have clue.
Typical Utica teacher. "Shut up and don't let anyone know how good we have it !!!"

So, it seems to me that you think the kids don't care to learn. That makes your job even EASIER...dummy.
hey chittenango

Carthage, NY

#38 Dec 14, 2012
You have the I.Q. of a salad bar You know nothing about education,let alone the teaching profession. New lesson plans,new evaluaton system,etc. But you , you ignoramas jst blows smoke on this site.you and your boy friend the truth.Only shit comes out of your mouth,and bull shit out of the truths mouth. The truth sites biasedresearch. But when it comes to the actual truth and is asked how things actually operate in shools especially the teachers responsibility he answers nothing. That is because the both of you have no knowledge o the education system.Bth of yo are friggin LOSERS.
Waste waste waste

Syracuse, NY

#39 Dec 15, 2012
hey chittenango wrote:
You have the I.Q. of a salad bar You know nothing about education,let alone the teaching profession. New lesson plans,new evaluaton system,etc. But you , you ignoramas jst blows smoke on this site.you and your boy friend the truth.Only shit comes out of your mouth,and bull shit out of the truths mouth. The truth sites biasedresearch. But when it comes to the actual truth and is asked how things actually operate in shools especially the teachers responsibility he answers nothing. That is because the both of you have no knowledge o the education system.Bth of yo are friggin LOSERS.
Typical Utica "tough guy." Too ignorant to engage in meaningful banter. Its just easier to scream and yell, and not see what most of the public sees, bloat and waste. No yelling hear...but Im the dummy. Btw, Im 52' been retired from private sector for four years now, invested wisely right out of college, Utica college at that, and now can sit here and enjoy your tirades, knowing full well that you are scared, very scared that your gravy train will come to an end...Yell some more....I welcome it.
ha ha ha

Carthage, NY

#40 Dec 15, 2012
okay donny friggin trump im sure everyone believes that. yo are a dead give away. Stop telling everyone your pipe dreams. Hows that broom that you push. While you push that broom just think of all the teaches who enjoys their pensions,and the ones that will enjoy them in the future. But knowing you and your fruit friend the truth CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Hey hows it feel to be totally ineffective. Go play hide the salami with your fudge packing friend the truth.

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