Say no to unions!
Truth

Utica, NY

#41 Aug 18, 2014
The-Adel wrote:
<quoted text>
Until congress enacts a minimum wage that allows full-time workers to earn a livable wage thus eliminating subsidies to employers by way of charitable support, food stamps, food banks and welfare grants to maintain life-support for workers there will always be a need for unions.
Minimum wage was never intended to be a "living wage" for a family of 4. That is what the proponents of an increase in the minimum wage want to use. Minimum wage jobs were meant to be entry level jobs for young, unskilled people.

With less middle class manufacturing jobs available thanks to labor unions, less skilled workers who would have had those jobs a are now forced into this lower end of the job market. That doesn't mean that we should raise the minimum wage for no other reason than they can't make ends meet. That punishes all consumers because prices go up and in the end jobs are lost. What happened to good old American work hard, educate yourself, strengthen you skillset....?

The compensation for any job should be controlled by the free market and not an index that represents someone's idea of what is "fair". That means that compensation should be the least amount that the most qualified job candidate will take.
union buster pinhead

Whitesboro, NY

#42 Aug 18, 2014
Ok Truth, let's bring back child labor if American business wants it. After all they do it in China & other 3rd world countries so it can't be all bad. Yes like the factory in China that makes Apple products where working conditions are so bad employees were jumping out windows committing suicide. That bother you? I doubt it. Hey, Apple makes multi millions in profits. They exist to make money for the stockholders. That's the price you pay, right? China has few labor laws. Tough shit, right? I'll bet Steve Jobs was your hero.
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#43 Aug 18, 2014
union buster pinhead wrote:
Ok Truth, let's bring back child labor if American business wants it. After all they do it in China & other 3rd world countries so it can't be all bad. Yes like the factory in China that makes Apple products where working conditions are so bad employees were jumping out windows committing suicide. That bother you? I doubt it. Hey, Apple makes multi millions in profits. They exist to make money for the stockholders. That's the price you pay, right? China has few labor laws. Tough shit, right? I'll bet Steve Jobs was your hero.
I guess they could always quit correct and work somewhere else?
General Mustard

Syracuse, NY

#44 Aug 18, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're going to acuse someone of being lazy and making a bunch of money I just want to know what you feel a bunch of money is?
What I said is he works about 6 hours a day. True story. A few minutes on Google and you'll find his salary. It's a bunch of money indeed, especially considering the work environment and morale and overall treatment of those who do the work a facility such as St. Joe's is intended to achieve. Have you ever had a family member in one and paid attention to the work those folks do? Have you ever did the work yourself?
General Mustard

Syracuse, NY

#45 Aug 18, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess they could always quit correct and work somewhere else?
Not fair to say Union Buster. Not fair at all. You must be management SOMEWHERE with that hooray for me to hell with you attitude. You know not what your future has in store and you might find yourself left vulnerable to those you have an apparent distaste for. Quit? Nice solution. Shame on you.
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#46 Aug 18, 2014
General Mustard wrote:
<quoted text>
What I said is he works about 6 hours a day. True story. A few minutes on Google and you'll find his salary. It's a bunch of money indeed, especially considering the work environment and morale and overall treatment of those who do the work a facility such as St. Joe's is intended to achieve. Have you ever had a family member in one and paid attention to the work those folks do? Have you ever did the work yourself?
I'm not interested in finding their salary. I was interested to find out what you think a bunch of money is?
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#47 Aug 18, 2014
General Mustard wrote:
<quoted text>
Not fair to say Union Buster. Not fair at all. You must be management SOMEWHERE with that hooray for me to hell with you attitude. You know not what your future has in store and you might find yourself left vulnerable to those you have an apparent distaste for. Quit? Nice solution. Shame on you.
You're right I am management in a salary/commission based job and not in a union. The salespeople I supervise are also salary/commission and not in a union. The service and parts department is also salary/commission based and not in unions.
The harder we work the more we earn. Notice I said "earn" not "make". The government makes money and I earn it. If I want to earn more I have two choices. Work harder or find employment somewhere I feel I can earn more.
General Mustard

Syracuse, NY

#48 Aug 19, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not interested in finding their salary. I was interested to find out what you think a bunch of money is?
I think a bunch of money differs greatly from a boatload of money.
General Mustard

Syracuse, NY

#49 Aug 19, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right I am management in a salary/commission based job and not in a union. The salespeople I supervise are also salary/commission and not in a union. The service and parts department is also salary/commission based and not in unions.
The harder we work the more we earn. Notice I said "earn" not "make". The government makes money and I earn it. If I want to earn more I have two choices. Work harder or find employment somewhere I feel I can earn more.
Ah! This explains a lot.

Do you live in some sort of perfect little bubble as well? We're not discussing motivation as the topic. We were discussing one entity, the work they do, and the treatment that's driving them to feel that union representation is the answer.

All types of businesses have the "worker bees" if you will who keep the wheels spinning and then there's those who make sure those wheels spin correctly. I get that.

I also know that I've watched a CNA in a nursing home get 13 people ready for bed in three short hours and still manage to treat my grandmother kindly and with some degree of respect. Work harder??? That's funny. You should try it and I'll guarantee you'll never work so hard in your life.

Some of those actually like what they do and honestly feel that things will get better for them some day.

Union Buster, when you're done selling cars and being better than others, consider volunteering at one of the many area long-term nursing facilities and just try to get it.
Truth

Utica, NY

#50 Aug 19, 2014
union buster pinhead wrote:
Ok Truth, let's bring back child labor if American business wants it. After all they do it in China & other 3rd world countries so it can't be all bad. Yes like the factory in China that makes Apple products where working conditions are so bad employees were jumping out windows committing suicide. That bother you? I doubt it. Hey, Apple makes multi millions in profits. They exist to make money for the stockholders. That's the price you pay, right? China has few labor laws. Tough shit, right? I'll bet Steve Jobs was your hero.
Don't be ridiculous. It's not an all or none type of thing. No one is suggesting a return to the early 1900's. Entire agencies and volumes of labor laws have been created in order to ensure we never go back there.

Having won many important battles for better working conditions, institution of child labor laws and things like these, the unions evolved into the same kind of big businesses that they fought against. They now exist more to demand a greater and greater share of a company's profit than to really protect workers. That hurts consumers and job seekers.

The working conditions in other countries may bother me but I am realistic. There is nothing we can do to control the inner workings of another country nor should we be able to. I find it ironic that the same people who hate neo-conservative nation building are okay with wanting to force other countries to change the way they conduct business or treat their workers. I don't expect that you even have a clue what I'm talking about though. It is up to the citizens of those countries to stand up to employers the way that early labor unions did here in the U.S.

Whether you like the fact or not, businesses DO exist to make money for their stockholders. They do not exist to create jobs or to pay compensation in excess of what a job is worth. If you want a great example take a look at what happened at Hostess. I believe the same thing is happening right now At Remington Arms. 105 union jobs lost yesterday. 80 of those are going to non-union Huntsville. I don't think it's all about the Safe Act as union officials and some politicians would have us believe.

Labor unions do serve a purpose but there is no avoiding the fact that they drive up the cost of doing business. If Apple Computers could sell Apple products for what they would cost if manufactured in America the Apple Computers would be manufacturing in America. They can't so they don't and a lot of that has to do with the entitlement mentality of union workers.
Where

Syracuse, NY

#51 Aug 19, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess they could always quit correct and work somewhere else?
Where? All places are the same and there is no unemployment benefit or Medicaid in China. I don't believe unions need to be greedy but people that do the labor do deserve some basic rights like age and hour limits, mandatory 10 minute breaks, and a paid vacation. Argue all you want but I say everyone that works deserves a vacation at least once a year. That doesn't hurt the bottom line of a big company at all.
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#52 Aug 19, 2014
General Mustard wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah! This explains a lot.
Do you live in some sort of perfect little bubble as well? We're not discussing motivation as the topic. We were discussing one entity, the work they do, and the treatment that's driving them to feel that union representation is the answer.
All types of businesses have the "worker bees" if you will who keep the wheels spinning and then there's those who make sure those wheels spin correctly. I get that.
I also know that I've watched a CNA in a nursing home get 13 people ready for bed in three short hours and still manage to treat my grandmother kindly and with some degree of respect. Work harder??? That's funny. You should try it and I'll guarantee you'll never work so hard in your life.
Some of those actually like what they do and honestly feel that things will get better for them some day.
Union Buster, when you're done selling cars and being better than others, consider volunteering at one of the many area long-term nursing facilities and just try to get it.
How about volunteering at an animal hospital. They aren't unionized. How about a homeless shelter. They aren't unionized. Heck, my girlfriend is a psychiatrist. Guess what. No union. One of my best friends is an attorney. No union.

Save your feel good story for yourself.
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#53 Aug 19, 2014
Where wrote:
<quoted text>
Where? All places are the same and there is no unemployment benefit or Medicaid in China. I don't believe unions need to be greedy but people that do the labor do deserve some basic rights like age and hour limits, mandatory 10 minute breaks, and a paid vacation. Argue all you want but I say everyone that works deserves a vacation at least once a year. That doesn't hurt the bottom line of a big company at all.
Who cares about china?
General Mustard

Bronx, NY

#54 Aug 19, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
How about volunteering at an animal hospital. They aren't unionized. How about a homeless shelter. They aren't unionized. Heck, my girlfriend is a psychiatrist. Guess what. No union. One of my best friends is an attorney. No union.
Save your feel good story for yourself.
So what's your point?

Either you missed mine or you're too much of a prick to get it.

Your girlfriend is a psychiatrist? Bet she sees right through your superficial cynical self.

Enjoy management at the used car lot. You've proved yourself to be a real disappointment Union Buster.
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#55 Aug 19, 2014
General Mustard wrote:
<quoted text>
So what's your point?
Either you missed mine or you're too much of a prick to get it.
Your girlfriend is a psychiatrist? Bet she sees right through your superficial cynical self.
Enjoy management at the used car lot. You've proved yourself to be a real disappointment Union Buster.
You have no point. You somehow want to play on people's emotions to justify a union. If you or someone else is unhappy with their compensation work harder or find employment somewhere else. It's really that simple.
General Mustard

Syracuse, NY

#56 Aug 19, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no point. You somehow want to play on people's emotions to justify a union. If you or someone else is unhappy with their compensation work harder or find employment somewhere else. It's really that simple.
My question remains: Why do these folks feel like they've no alternative? And I'm not playing on anyone's emotions. Ask your psychiatrist girlfriend. What I'm doing is speaking of an industry you know nothing about.

It's fascinating how you attempt to come across as so smart but present the most illogical solutions that are in essence simple. Simple. Simple. Simple.

I could pick you out at a dinner party within 15 minutes.
Union Buster

Clifton Park, NY

#57 Aug 19, 2014
General Mustard wrote:
<quoted text>
My question remains: Why do these folks feel like they've no alternative? And I'm not playing on anyone's emotions. Ask your psychiatrist girlfriend. What I'm doing is speaking of an industry you know nothing about.
It's fascinating how you attempt to come across as so smart but present the most illogical solutions that are in essence simple. Simple. Simple. Simple.
I could pick you out at a dinner party within 15 minutes.
So working harder or seeking employment somewhere else is illogical to you? Paying third party union dues to speak for you is logical to you? Please continue on because you're only digging yourself into a deeper hole.
Diane Pakmer

Utica, NY

#58 Aug 19, 2014
Chikld Molesters
Truth

Utica, NY

#59 Aug 20, 2014
Union Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no point. You somehow want to play on people's emotions to justify a union. If you or someone else is unhappy with their compensation work harder or find employment somewhere else. It's really that simple.
Well said.
What you just said used to be the definition of the "American Dream".
Work hard, educate yourself, develop the skills needed to make enough money to fulfill your dreams.

That is one of the biggest things that made the United States the greatest country that's ever existed.
The Real Truth

Buffalo, NY

#60 Aug 20, 2014
All this talk of work harder or find a different job....is just plain idiotic. Having a union just is not about pay, but benefits. Health Care, vacation, working conditions, and respect. In a union, the workers have a voice. Yes company's intentions are to make money, but they cannot do that without the their labor force. It's this simple: without the workers, no company in America would exist. Therefore, all workers, if WISE, would want a say in their pay and benefits. Company's will not pay more for harder work, anyone that believes they do in just plain stupid. Companies want the highest profit possible, if you work harder, that means more money for the company, not you.

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