Public hearing for proposed charter s...

Public hearing for proposed charter school is silent

There are 28 comments on the WKTV story from Apr 8, 2014, titled Public hearing for proposed charter school is silent. In it, WKTV reports that:

A public hearing to discuss the possibility of a second charter school in Utica didn't draw people from either side of the fence Tuesday night.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WKTV.

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jing

Utica, NY

#1 Apr 9, 2014
I don't blame anyone for not showing up. The dons of the school board are against it anyway. Who would want to go that rat hole and stare at their ugly butt faces. No one was under any obligation to show up at that meatball meeting. Glad no one did. The second charter school will open, much to their displeasure.

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#2 Apr 9, 2014
The public hearing was a state requirement not a school board request. If the charter school organizers didn't feel the need to share their ideas and visions with the public that is their prerogative. My question would be, what are they afraid of? Of course the school board is against the opening of another charter school. What amazes me is that the public is so anxious to see their tax dollars go to a private corporation with no state oversight. There are very few examples of the state giving taxpayers money to private entities where the state doesn't question how and where the money is spent. There are many examples of where charter schools have taken taxpayer money, not provided the services they promised and then shut their doors and walked away. Public schools are required by law to be audited every year. Not so for charter schools. The only time they are held responsible for anything is after they have failed. By then the money is gone, the kids have suffered and the public schools and taxpayers are left to pick up the pieces. I don't have a problem with charter schools per se. What I do have a problem with is taxpayer money being given away with no state oversight.
herbie

Utica, NY

#3 Apr 9, 2014
JusticeDefiled13501 wrote:
The public hearing was a state requirement not a school board request. If the charter school organizers didn't feel the need to share their ideas and visions with the public that is their prerogative. My question would be, what are they afraid of? Of course the school board is against the opening of another charter school. What amazes me is that the public is so anxious to see their tax dollars go to a private corporation with no state oversight. There are very few examples of the state giving taxpayers money to private entities where the state doesn't question how and where the money is spent. There are many examples of where charter schools have taken taxpayer money, not provided the services they promised and then shut their doors and walked away. Public schools are required by law to be audited every year. Not so for charter schools. The only time they are held responsible for anything is after they have failed. By then the money is gone, the kids have suffered and the public schools and taxpayers are left to pick up the pieces. I don't have a problem with charter schools per se. What I do have a problem with is taxpayer money being given away with no state oversight.
Well stated. Could you please post your source that says there is no state oversight? Thanks.
Barretta

Utica, NY

#4 Apr 9, 2014
What seperates a charter school from a public school? If the issue is Utica Schools aren't meeting state standards,how is taking taxpayer money from utica schools and giving it to a charter school going to improve the local schools? Then the charter school is only open to the chosen few. To me that makes the charter school a private school.

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#5 Apr 9, 2014
I will try to post the source when I get time to locate it. This has been a point of contention between the public schools and charter schools since their inception. I have heard rumor that there is some wording in the new state budget that allows auditing of charter schools but not by the state comptroller. I don't know who is going to do this auditing but I would prefer to see it done by the same people who are responsible for auditing public schools. Seems only fair.
Truth

Utica, NY

#6 Apr 9, 2014
JusticeDefiled13501 wrote:
The public hearing was a state requirement not a school board request. If the charter school organizers didn't feel the need to share their ideas and visions with the public that is their prerogative. My question would be, what are they afraid of? Of course the school board is against the opening of another charter school. What amazes me is that the public is so anxious to see their tax dollars go to a private corporation with no state oversight. There are very few examples of the state giving taxpayers money to private entities where the state doesn't question how and where the money is spent. There are many examples of where charter schools have taken taxpayer money, not provided the services they promised and then shut their doors and walked away. Public schools are required by law to be audited every year. Not so for charter schools. The only time they are held responsible for anything is after they have failed. By then the money is gone, the kids have suffered and the public schools and taxpayers are left to pick up the pieces. I don't have a problem with charter schools per se. What I do have a problem with is taxpayer money being given away with no state oversight.
No state oversight?
You need to do a little homework.
Charter schools are public schools. The charter is a contract. There are very specific criteria that need to be met. Accountability is one of the strong selling points of charter schools. It's the kind of accountability that isn't present in the public schools for the most part. That's mostly due to the influence of the teacher and administrator unions. The charter school is under the constant scrutiny of the New York State Board of Regents who are the authorizers of the charter.
Please see:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csregs.html
and in particular this:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csreg119.3.html
In part is says:
"No later than the first day of August of each year, each charter school shall submit to the Board of Regents and to the charter entity an annual report for the preceding school year, which shall include a charter school report card comprising the data set forth in subdivisions (a)-(c) of this section....."

Teacher's unions are waging a public relations campaign against charter schools that is probably the envy of Madison Avenue ad agencies. Why? Because they have everything to lose if it is shown that privately run public schools can achieve the same or better educational outcomes than the current union dominated model.

What kind of welcome do you think charter school proponents would have gotten? The superintendent of the UCSD and the BOE president have been on a media blitz talking about how much the district would suffer if a second charter school were to open. Same old tactics and rhetoric from those who fell threatened and want to cling to the status quo. The next time you hear them say "it's for the children" understand that isn't true. It's for the money and to protect the power they've gathered for themselves.
Truth

Utica, NY

#7 Apr 9, 2014
Barretta wrote:
What seperates a charter school from a public school? If the issue is Utica Schools aren't meeting state standards,how is taking taxpayer money from utica schools and giving it to a charter school going to improve the local schools? Then the charter school is only open to the chosen few. To me that makes the charter school a private school.
The charter school is privately run and not subject to the power of the public school administrator and teacher unions. The issue is finding a way to better educate children. The charter school is a public school. The students are not chosen. Admission is based on a lottery of all interested students in the district.

Do they improve education?
Take a look at this assessment of NYS charter schools for 2012-13.
http://www.newyorkcharters.org/parentPerforma...
Barretta

Utica, NY

#8 Apr 9, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
No state oversight?
You need to do a little homework.
Charter schools are public schools. The charter is a contract. There are very specific criteria that need to be met. Accountability is one of the strong selling points of charter schools. It's the kind of accountability that isn't present in the public schools for the most part. That's mostly due to the influence of the teacher and administrator unions. The charter school is under the constant scrutiny of the New York State Board of Regents who are the authorizers of the charter.
Please see:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csregs.html
and in particular this:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csreg119.3.html
In part is says:
"No later than the first day of August of each year, each charter school shall submit to the Board of Regents and to the charter entity an annual report for the preceding school year, which shall include a charter school report card comprising the data set forth in subdivisions (a)-(c) of this section....."
Teacher's unions are waging a public relations campaign against charter schools that is probably the envy of Madison Avenue ad agencies. Why? Because they have everything to lose if it is shown that privately run public schools can achieve the same or better educational outcomes than the current union dominated model.
What kind of welcome do you think charter school proponents would have gotten? The superintendent of the UCSD and the BOE president have been on a media blitz talking about how much the district would suffer if a second charter school were to open. Same old tactics and rhetoric from those who fell threatened and want to cling to the status quo. The next time you hear them say "it's for the children" understand that isn't true. It's for the money and to protect the power they've gathered for themselves.
The public schools will suffer you idiot. Let the people who run the charter schools finance it.And of course the test scores should be higher because they select the students they want. Force feed them that immigrant trash our wonderful refugee center places in Utica and some of the Cornhill trash and see how well they do.
Truth

Utica, NY

#9 Apr 9, 2014
herbie wrote:
<quoted text>
Well stated. Could you please post your source that says there is no state oversight? Thanks.
Don't hold your breath for that cite. Charter schools are monitored by the New York Sate Department of Regents on a continual basis. Here's the rule and please take note that it is a New York State government website:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csreg119.3.html
Truth

Utica, NY

#10 Apr 9, 2014
JusticeDefiled13501 wrote:
I will try to post the source when I get time to locate it. This has been a point of contention between the public schools and charter schools since their inception. I have heard rumor that there is some wording in the new state budget that allows auditing of charter schools but not by the state comptroller. I don't know who is going to do this auditing but I would prefer to see it done by the same people who are responsible for auditing public schools. Seems only fair.
The charter is a contract.
New York State charter school law says this:
"(c) A charter school shall be subject to the financial audits, the
audit procedures, and the audit requirements set forth in the charter,
and shall be subject to audits of the comptroller of the city school
district of the city of New York for charter schools located in New York
city, and to the audits of the comptroller of the state of New York for
charter schools located in the rest of the state, at his or her
discretion, with respect to the school's financial operations. Such
procedures and standards shall be consistent with generally accepted
accounting and audit standards. Independent fiscal audits shall be
required at least once annually."

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cg... $$EDN2854$$@TXEDN02854+&LI ST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+ &TOKEN=09843019+&TARGE T=VIEW
Truth

Utica, NY

#11 Apr 9, 2014
Barretta wrote:
<quoted text>The public schools will suffer you idiot. Let the people who run the charter schools finance it.And of course the test scores should be higher because they select the students they want. Force feed them that immigrant trash our wonderful refugee center places in Utica and some of the Cornhill trash and see how well they do.
Public schools as currently constituted are failing to provide a satisfactory outcome. Colleges complain that high school graduates are unprepared for college level work. Employers complain that college graduates are unprepared for life n the working world. Charter schools offer a choice to the public schools as they've existed in the past. The important thing is the outcome and not the public school teacher and administrator pocketbooks.

You think charter school students are hand picked. They are not. It's a lottery system. They take all students selected in that lottery including immigrants. Charter schools have been around for quite a while so there is some data that can be used to draw conclusions. One recent study showed that it was students whose first language isn't English benefited most from attending a charter school.

Calling me a name isn't going to change the facts. We should be looking at every viable plan for better preparing all of our children for life in the real world.

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#12 Apr 9, 2014
Barretta wrote:
What seperates a charter school from a public school? If the issue is Utica Schools aren't meeting state standards,how is taking taxpayer money from utica schools and giving it to a charter school going to improve the local schools? Then the charter school is only open to the chosen few. To me that makes the charter school a private school.
Students for charter schools are supposed to be chosen at random by a lottery. However, this process is done by the charter schools behind closed doors without oversight by the school district or anyone else. We just have to trust them that it is done fairly. Do you trust them. There is a lot of money at stake here. Your money and my money. I would prefer that my tax dollars are spent to educate ALL children and not the chosen few.

Most of the problems with inner-city public schools are socioeconomic and not educational. Until the economy of Utica can be improved the problems in our schools will continue. Utica is not unique. All urban school districts in New York State are suffering the same problems.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

#13 Apr 9, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The charter is a contract.
New York State charter school law says this:
"(c) A charter school shall be subject to the financial audits, the
audit procedures, and the audit requirements set forth in the charter,
and shall be subject to audits of the comptroller of the city school
district of the city of New York for charter schools located in New York
city, and to the audits of the comptroller of the state of New York for
charter schools located in the rest of the state, at his or her
discretion, with respect to the school's financial operations. Such
procedures and standards shall be consistent with generally accepted
accounting and audit standards. Independent fiscal audits shall be
required at least once annually."
http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cg... $$EDN2854$$@TXEDN02854+&LI ST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+ &TOKEN=09843019+&TARGE T=VIEW
key words being "at his or her
discretion, with respect to the school's financial operations." So unless an audit is mandated by the State Comptroller, none has to be done. As stated, Charter schools operate under very loose monitoring.
Truth

Utica, NY

#14 Apr 9, 2014
JusticeDefiled13501 wrote:
<quoted text>
Students for charter schools are supposed to be chosen at random by a lottery. However, this process is done by the charter schools behind closed doors without oversight by the school district or anyone else. We just have to trust them that it is done fairly. Do you trust them. There is a lot of money at stake here. Your money and my money. I would prefer that my tax dollars are spent to educate ALL children and not the chosen few.
Most of the problems with inner-city public schools are socioeconomic and not educational. Until the economy of Utica can be improved the problems in our schools will continue. Utica is not unique. All urban school districts in New York State are suffering the same problems.
You're long on opinion and supposition. Short on facts.

New York State charter school regulations say this:
"(2) The lottery shall be held in a space that is open and accessible to the public and capable of accommodating the anticipated number of attendees. If anticipated attendance exceeds capacity, separate grade level lotteries may be held in separate locations provided that each lottery is publicized in a manner consistent with the requirements of Public Officers Law section 104. Nothing herein shall be construed to require or exclude attendance at the lottery by parents, persons in parental relationships, guardians and/or students participating in the admissions process."

http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/CharterSchoolReg...
Truth

Utica, NY

#15 Apr 9, 2014
pretend to be smart wrote:
<quoted text>
key words being "at his or her
discretion, with respect to the school's financial operations." So unless an audit is mandated by the State Comptroller, none has to be done. As stated, Charter schools operate under very loose monitoring.
From an earlier post:
"Please see:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csregs.html
and in particular this:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csreg119.3.html
In part is says:
"No later than the first day of August of each year, each charter school shall submit to the Board of Regents and to the charter entity an annual report for the preceding school year, which shall include a charter school report card comprising the data set forth in subdivisions (a)-(c) of this section....."

It says "shall submit" not "may submit" or "at the discretion of..."

Section c says this about what is to be submitted:
"(c) Report of fiscal performance. Each charter school shall report the following data, in a format prescribed by the commissioner:

(1) Revenues.

(i) Revenues from State sources, which shall mean any State-funded grants or other apportionments paid directly to the charter school by the State of New York.

(ii) Revenues from Federal sources, which shall mean any federally funded grants or other apportionments paid directly to the charter school by the Federal government or by the State of New York.

(iii) Basic operating revenues received from public school districts, which shall mean payments received by the charter school from public school districts based on the product of the adjusted expense per pupil and the current year resident enrollment in the charter school for all public school districts with resident pupils attending the charter school as such product is defined in section 119.1(d)(3)(i) of this Part, or based on any such reduced amounts payable to the charter school by a public school district pursuant to an agreement between the charter school and the charter entity as set forth in the charter.........
.......(iii) Expenditures per pupil, which shall mean the quotient of total expenditures divided by enrollment, rounded to the next highest whole dollar."

You can read the rest from the website but what it describes is an audit of finances to be submitted for scrutiny.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

#16 Apr 9, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You're long on opinion and supposition. Short on facts.
New York State charter school regulations say this:
"(2) The lottery shall be held in a space that is open and accessible to the public and capable of accommodating the anticipated number of attendees. If anticipated attendance exceeds capacity, separate grade level lotteries may be held in separate locations provided that each lottery is publicized in a manner consistent with the requirements of Public Officers Law section 104. Nothing herein shall be construed to require or exclude attendance at the lottery by parents, persons in parental relationships, guardians and/or students participating in the admissions process."
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/CharterSchoolReg...
Ah yes, but prior to the actual drawing, who picks what names are placed into that drawing and when? They are pre-screened.
herbie

Utica, NY

#17 Apr 9, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't hold your breath for that cite. Charter schools are monitored by the New York Sate Department of Regents on a continual basis. Here's the rule and please take note that it is a New York State government website:
http://www.p12.nysed.gov/psc/csreg119.3.html
Thank you for the source!!
Truth

Utica, NY

#18 Apr 9, 2014
pretend to be smart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah yes, but prior to the actual drawing, who picks what names are placed into that drawing and when? They are pre-screened.
What about online applications vs. written/mailed applications? Where do you draw the line and start trusting the laws that have been created and the oversight they mandate?

New York State regulations governing the charter school lottery says this:

"(1) The person(s) conducting the selection of lottery applicants or acting as an impartial observer of the selection of lottery applicants shall not be a board member or employee of the school, or a parent, person in parental relationship, grandparent, sibling, aunt, uncle or first cousin of any applicant to the school or of any pupil enrolled in the school."

Are you saying that someone form the Utica Charter School is or has been breaking the law?

All applicants are put in the lottery. Even those from outside the district even though those who live in the district are given preference over them.
educated and amused

Utica, NY

#19 Apr 9, 2014
Some things never change.
Once again, "Truth" conveniently distorts/ ignores facts to continue his tirade against public employee unions.
Charter schools may or may not choose their students by lottery. Some do, some don't. But-ALL of them have the right to return a nonperforming child to the public school. How do you consider that fair? They appeal to the "low hanging fruit", the students whose parents want the best for their child. Those are the overwhelming majority of the applicants, and of course, the most likely to succeed.(Although there is ample evidence to suggest the difference is not as dramatic as you would have everyone believe.) They take the cream of the crop, then have the luxury of sending the child back if he/she causes problems in the charter school. Public schools have no such option. Charter schools are nothing more than private schools running on public money. If they want the right to throw students out, then they should not take public money to operate. The problem is not with the public schools or the teachers. Most, if not all, charter school teachers are certified teachers who were unable to obtain a job elsewhere. The problem is with parents. Let the public schools decide who stays and who goes; then watch their performance skyrocket. You're an intellectual poser, an educational wanna-be. Quite possibly a disgruntled and unsuccessful teacher. Stick to picking wings off of flies and save your pseudo sophisticated posts for the restaurant reviews on topix.
Barretta

Utica, NY

#20 Apr 9, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Public schools as currently constituted are failing to provide a satisfactory outcome. Colleges complain that high school graduates are unprepared for college level work. Employers complain that college graduates are unprepared for life n the working world. Charter schools offer a choice to the public schools as they've existed in the past. The important thing is the outcome and not the public school teacher and administrator pocketbooks.
You think charter school students are hand picked. They are not. It's a lottery system. They take all students selected in that lottery including immigrants. Charter schools have been around for quite a while so there is some data that can be used to draw conclusions. One recent study showed that it was students whose first language isn't English benefited most from attending a charter school.
Calling me a name isn't going to change the facts. We should be looking at every viable plan for better preparing all of our children for life in the real world.
So taking money from the public schools and giving it to charter schools is a way to fix the problem. As a Utica homeowner with a child in the Utica District it is bullshit that my money pays for this charter school with a small group of students while my child is stuck with increasing class sizes. Let the charters finance themselves like a private school.

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