Val Bialas new operator is trying to ...

Val Bialas new operator is trying to sell chairlift fora t-bar

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skiier

Rome, NY

#1 Jan 25, 2010
On his val-bialas page on facebook he has the chairlift for sale. He seems to think that a chairlift is to big for that hill. Plus a t-bar he would not have to pay as much for the electric. But how can him and the mayor decide to sell it without even getting feedback from anyone. Plenty of small ski area can operate a chairlift fine. Four seasons has one near Syracuse and its not even half of what the parkway is. I support a t-bar but not if to get it your going to sell the lift. Beginners will have a pain on it and then what if you do turn the place around and it starts getting busy again and now you don't have a lift. Hes already in a panic about not getting alot of people there it seems. Well when you do not make snow on the whole hill and your without a groomer because the city broke it last year then yeah you wont get many people back there this year. Put in pipe and get more than 1 gun and get someone to run the guns overnight someone who knows what they are doing. Making snow for an hour a day is not doing anything.

Level 2

Since: Jul 09

United States

#2 Jan 25, 2010
Tax payers just about a year or so ago had to flip the bill to replace the cables and chairs do to decay of the old items. Insurance would not cover the chair lift till these items were replaced.
This was done at a hefty price.
The parkway is the citizens and just because we allow a outside entity to operate it does not take away this fact. Any selling of taxpayer items needs to go before a citizens committee before these decisions are made.
Go away

United States

#3 Jan 25, 2010
Hey William... The citizens who pay taxes are not interested in your opinion. Go away! Your words are mean nothing.
Shippman

AOL

#4 Jan 25, 2010
NOTHING happens unless the City Administration and the Common Council approve. Right now we are looking, and looking is free. The chairlift will be placed for sale in the open market using a broker who has been told that the sale must cover all the expenses of puttin a Tbar back in place AND updating the lights. In fact, the replacement tbar will go uphill even further than the original one. This is not 1974, when a weekend would see 500 skiers. This is 2010, where we are lucky to see 50 on a weekend. 75% of my operating costs are the Chair lift. 90% of my customers are snow boarders who want to ski the features and jumps installed on the original Tbar hill. I didn't quite understand why they used that handle tow lift more than the chair lift, but now I see. They just want to stay on that hill and hit jumps, rails and boxes. The liability and tremendous operating costs go away when the chair lift goes away. AND I might add that this decision will be made within the walls of the city.

The shortest period of time we have kept the snow guy going is 6 hours. Including Friday, when we ran it overnight. It is true that the Piston Bully is out for repair, but even if it was back we couldn't have used it. Our base was never more than 4-6 inches and the groomer would have churned up dirt as well as snow. One more thing, I never panic or cry baby about things like is see here in the forums. I will leave that to others. Meanwhile, I continue to improve the situation there. Thanks to all who have supported me... Mark
Really

New York, NY

#5 Jan 25, 2010
This doesn't make sense a t-bar cost nowheres near as much as the lift
pop

East Syracuse, NY

#6 Jan 25, 2010
This whole thing is a joke.
really

Manlius, NY

#7 Jan 25, 2010
Can this fiasco take any more idiotic turns? Sell the chair lift and buy a T-bar? Are you freaking serious? Hello, City of Utica, the money you have wasted over the past two seasons to accomodate these fools and their "visions" could have been spent on snowmaking and employees to run the mountain the way it should have been all along. By the City, for the people, and to improve the quality of life here.
Just Wondering

Manlius, NY

#8 Jan 25, 2010
Why don't they just trade the chair lift for a rope tow? These people are fools. I hope that the City Council gets involved.
pssed off

United States

#9 Jan 25, 2010
Mr. Newell is right, this needs to be stopped.
This idea of farming out Public Parks to outside entities that are living in a fantasy land.
This is our park, we the citizens have over the years put many tax dollars to keep the park updated and open to the public, and operated by the Parks Department as a opportunity to keep the Parks Department workers employed full time.
These workers operated the facility as the City ordered, and did a great job.
Give the park back to the people of this city and return operations to the City Parks Dept.
Keeping equipment functional and updated is the responsibility of the City. We had a t bar and a rope tow and everyone who is in authority made wrong decisions and that is why we are left with only one lift, a Citizens Committee needs to be established and decisions made as a whole.
to pssed off

Rome, NY

#10 Jan 25, 2010
Having the city run it worked out real well. Trails overgrown. putting tons of dirt on the hill and calling it a half-pipe. Letting all the equipment get run down. Not really caring if they even opened or not yea lets let them run it again. They are the reason that place is in as rough of shape as it is. I just hope this guy this year realizes he needs to make snow not wait for snow. I bought my son a season pass and I will not be doing that next year since there no guarantee they can stay open with a little warm up. Hopefully those guns will be on this week to open that hill back up for the kids.
groomer

Rome, NY

#12 Jan 25, 2010
Where do you get this idea that a groomer needs more snow than you had? Woods Valley makes less then that and they are out there grooming when they first open. The guys last year were groomer around the hill with like 4 inches of soft snow. So saying it would turn up dirt and mud is just crazy
Shippman

AOL

#13 Jan 25, 2010
In 2007-2008 season, the city collected $7400 in total revenue. Why didnt you complainers all go skiing then? Obviously, you did not. I spent more than that on smoothing out the hill, filling a huge groove in the middle of the main hill, chopping vegetation to widen the trails in the woods and creating a downhill path after getting off the chair lift so you can ski over to the old Tbar hill. Here is what the chair lift turned into over the years with the city running it... http://mvny.org/entertainment/utica/val-biala... Notice that there are NO SKIERS/BOARDERS. Only sledders. This is an old web page that has been left up. The city also paid $750000 to some idiot that went up the chair lift hill with a tobaggan and slid down and lost some fingers. The man who bought the seasons pass for his kid need not worry. More snow is coming and the odds of good skiing are in our favor. When it cools down, the snow guns will go back on and the lifts opened up. It is easy to post in this forum. It is harder to show up there and talk to me about your ideas and suggestions. Mark
Shippman

East Syracuse, NY

#14 Jan 26, 2010
On Selling the Chair Lift... a few days back I posted "For Sale-Chair Lift" on the Val Bialas Facebook page. I have removed that post because people were actually calling city hall and accusing the mayor and others of trying to make a back door deal and pocket the money and move to Tahiti. It was posted there to foster debate, and we only got 2 nice posts there. Here, the debate was more vigorous, but seems to have immediately gone negative. I will continue to push to sell the chair lift, but everyone should understand that it is a decision to be made by the city administration and commmon council. My part of this is to look into it and report findings. In the end it is not my decision. I would be interested to see how many of the complainers show up for the public debate on this.... Thanks Mark
No Snow At Big Val

United States

#15 Jan 26, 2010
Shippman wrote:
NOTHING happens unless the City Administration and the Common Council approve. Right now we are looking, and looking is free. The chairlift will be placed for sale in the open market using a broker who has been told that the sale must cover all the expenses of puttin a Tbar back in place AND updating the lights. In fact, the replacement tbar will go uphill even further than the original one. This is not 1974, when a weekend would see 500 skiers. This is 2010, where we are lucky to see 50 on a weekend. 75% of my operating costs are the Chair lift. 90% of my customers are snow boarders who want to ski the features and jumps installed on the original Tbar hill. I didn't quite understand why they used that handle tow lift more than the chair lift, but now I see. They just want to stay on that hill and hit jumps, rails and boxes. The liability and tremendous operating costs go away when the chair lift goes away. AND I might add that this decision will be made within the walls of the city.
The shortest period of time we have kept the snow guy going is 6 hours. Including Friday, when we ran it overnight. It is true that the Piston Bully is out for repair, but even if it was back we couldn't have used it. Our base was never more than 4-6 inches and the groomer would have churned up dirt as well as snow. One more thing, I never panic or cry baby about things like is see here in the forums. I will leave that to others. Meanwhile, I continue to improve the situation there. Thanks to all who have supported me... Mark
That's fine except that from the beginning the business plan was poor. If you had carefully reviewed weather patterns for the area over the years that you were away, you would have noticed one glaring fact - cold weather and snow can not be counted on to cover the area or ground for extended periods of time even though the calendar proclaims that it is winter. Having a cannon to shoot skiers to the top of the hill won't make the lack of snow and cold temperatures make the season any better. Just a week ago, I observed individuals playing tennis instead of skiing or skating. Don't blame the equipment for the fact that snow and cold temps are not as dependable as poor politics in Utica.
lifetime skiier

Fayetteville, NY

#16 Jan 26, 2010
i would ski val bialis if there were enough snow to cover the trails, especially through the woods to get to the main trail. i dont want to worry about wrecking my skis from skiing on roots and rocks! But i will never ski anywhere without a chairlift, unless you just plan on catering to young snowboarders, selling the lift is a huge step in the wrong direction! Take it from a 35 yr old skiier who learned at val, and would teach my kids to ski there if we had the proper facilities! NO Chair, No Ski! Give me snow and reasonable lift tix price and we will come, until then its woods valley for my family!
master plan

Camillus, NY

#17 Jan 26, 2010
maybe selling the chairlift is part of the Master Plan the mayors been working on
WAIT

New York, NY

#18 Jan 26, 2010
I have skied at the parkway for 30 years. I went as a kid and am now taking my son there as well. He is 9 years old and in his first year of skiing and doesn't know how to use the T-bar. We ski mostly at woods valley because it is well taken care of. The parkway is icy and isn't groomed. I understand it cant be groomed because the groomer is down, IT NEEDS SNOW !!!

If the chairlift is closed the parkway wont be useful for learning how to ski anymore. It is still city owned and the supported by my tax dollars.

This isnt a post to rag on you or anyone in the city government but just to let you know that i have paid for that hill for years and now that i NEED the chairlift for my son to ski I want it there
Shippman

AOL

#19 Jan 26, 2010
First of all, this string should be called 'Val Bialas operator has found a way to save the City of Utica a Ton of Money'. We had good snow coverage for about 2 weeks AND the chair lift was operating. Lifetime Skier, where were you and all the other chair lift lovers during that time? You complain about the ticket prices. Do you even know what the ticket prices are? And Mr. No Sno at Big Val, you complain about the business plan. Did you even see the business plan? What specific parts of the business plan were bad? What are the specific improvements that should be made that were overlooked? When this proposal gets to the public comment phase, I expect to see you all there. By the way "I like a chair lift" is not going to be good enough.

Since: Jan 10

Rome, NY

#20 Jan 26, 2010
Better off with just a t-bar everyone who complains is never even there the ones who go there would rather there be a t-bar because its faster and would benefit the hill more by having the extra money for new lights and other improvements
Are You Nuts

Manlius, NY

#21 Jan 26, 2010
WAIT wrote:
I have skied at the parkway for 30 years. I went as a kid and am now taking my son there as well. He is 9 years old and in his first year of skiing and doesn't know how to use the T-bar. We ski mostly at woods valley because it is well taken care of. The parkway is icy and isn't groomed. I understand it cant be groomed because the groomer is down, IT NEEDS SNOW !!!
If the chairlift is closed the parkway wont be useful for learning how to ski anymore. It is still city owned and the supported by my tax dollars.
This isnt a post to rag on you or anyone in the city government but just to let you know that i have paid for that hill for years and now that i NEED the chairlift for my son to ski I want it there
Why do you care? You just stated that you go to Woods Valley because the skiing conditions are bad at Big Val. It also seems to me that the first thing that you should teach your son, is how to use a T Bar, you moron! I suppose that you also demand elevators where ever you go because your son doesn't know how to climb stairs. But I personally think that you are full of crap anyway.

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