Piersma, you nailed it.

Posted in the Utica Forum

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UticaSucks

Utica, NY

#1 Mar 17, 2014
UPD,FD and DPW are so mis-managed in Utica. Brooks is a bully. Palmieri is a bully. They talk to people and degrade people so bad. USCD will not get paid either. This city is so broke, they are hiding 90% of debt. Bankrupt within 18 months.
vick

Meriden, CT

#4 Mar 17, 2014
irish wrote:
I had to pay an extra 3 bucks to get into a bar on varick street to pay about 25 cops to stand around. Either we are getting hosed by them or people are not trusted to drink and behave anymore.
the cops of today not all of them but a lot Dont have the position at heart. They are in it for the cash and benefits as the city has deep pockets at taxpayer expense.Many of then are midgets.There should be a height requirement.There used to be one years ago.
Truth

Utica, NY

#5 Mar 17, 2014
Everyone talks about Detroit and the problems they face for many of the same reasons that Utica will eventually face bankruptcy.

Have a look at what happens in a small city though. Google "Central Falls, Rhode Island". That's a small city that went bankrupt because of pension and benefit liability.
Truth

Utica, NY

#8 Mar 17, 2014
I don't understand the negotiating process I guess.

The OD article I read said that police contracts were negotiated and approved last year. the mayor said that neither side got everything they wanted in the negotiation.

Do they not realize(either side that is) that a day is coming when there will be no negotiating if we continue on this path? Utica is not growing economically and the situation deteriorates more each year. We are coming to a time when Utica will not be able to pay the bills or raise taxes any more. On that day a control board takes over and voids the existing labor contracts.

If I was negotiating with public safety I would make it clear that it would be better to have a smaller percentage of what they have now then to continue to pretend that there is a real problem caused by compensation and benefits.

I previously mentioned Central Falls, Rhode Island. When their day of reckoning came their public safety, especially retirees, ended up taking huge cuts. There are plenty of articles about that side of things with public safety, both active and retired, complaining about how they got screwed over. One has to ask though if they weren't their own worst enemy in the years leading up to the bankruptcy just like Utica's public safety is now.

The facts are that Utica can't just keep raising taxes and expecting bailouts. The well is just about dry.
Popo

Albany, NY

#9 Mar 17, 2014
Guys this all sounds great. Just give the memo to the 700 drug dealers in cornhill and east utica, the 800 sex offenders and 1200 guys straling metal and going three cars every night. We will cut starting now. Also advise the refugee center to stop bringing 900 poeple who pay nothing to your city a year. Remember the same size house as yours in clinton would be 2 to 3 grand a mknth more
High Taxes and Riggies

Clifton Park, NY

#10 Mar 17, 2014
Popo wrote:
Guys this all sounds great. Just give the memo to the 700 drug dealers in cornhill and east utica, the 800 sex offenders and 1200 guys straling metal and going three cars every night. We will cut starting now. Also advise the refugee center to stop bringing 900 poeple who pay nothing to your city a year. Remember the same size house as yours in clinton would be 2 to 3 grand a mknth more
UPD. Always selling fear.
Truth

Utica, NY

#11 Mar 17, 2014
Popo wrote:
Guys this all sounds great. Just give the memo to the 700 drug dealers in cornhill and east utica, the 800 sex offenders and 1200 guys straling metal and going three cars every night. We will cut starting now. Also advise the refugee center to stop bringing 900 poeple who pay nothing to your city a year. Remember the same size house as yours in clinton would be 2 to 3 grand a mknth more
Not talking personnel so as much as cutting benefits and things like show up pay.

Has anyone ever thought of bringing in a consultant to look at how these departments are run? Someone with no alliances and not beholding to the city or the unions. In the private sector when businesses are in trouble they will sometimes bring in experts(management consultants) to look at how the business is being run. They look at everything from expenses to scheduling. Based on their findings they make recommendations. It's good to have a fresh, unbiased set of eyes on things.

There should be someone like that who can look at public safety(maybe the whole city) and tell if it is the right size, if the salaries and benefits are in line for a city the size of Utica, if the ambulance really makes money, if policies regarding overtime are in line and on and on. That way everyone can have an objective view of where everything stands. Seems to me that the results of something like that should be the foundation for any negotiation going forward. It's certainly the only way for the taxpaying public to make any sense of it and form an educated opinion. The way it is now the fox is in charge of the chicken coop.
High Taxes and Riggies

Clifton Park, NY

#12 Mar 17, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Not talking personnel so as much as cutting benefits and things like show up pay.
Has anyone ever thought of bringing in a consultant to look at how these departments are run? Someone with no alliances and not beholding to the city or the unions. In the private sector when businesses are in trouble they will sometimes bring in experts(management consultants) to look at how the business is being run. They look at everything from expenses to scheduling. Based on their findings they make recommendations. It's good to have a fresh, unbiased set of eyes on things.
There should be someone like that who can look at public safety(maybe the whole city) and tell if it is the right size, if the salaries and benefits are in line for a city the size of Utica, if the ambulance really makes money, if policies regarding overtime are in line and on and on. That way everyone can have an objective view of where everything stands. Seems to me that the results of something like that should be the foundation for any negotiation going forward. It's certainly the only way for the taxpaying public to make any sense of it and form an educated opinion. The way it is now the fox is in charge of the chicken coop.
In theory this is great. In reality would you really expect the city of utica to open their books? It will never happen until the city is bankrupt and the state moves in.
Lol

Albany, NY

#13 Mar 17, 2014
If its as great as people say to be on upd then why cant they get anyone to transfer from other departments? Because the salery is the same as anywhere else and they didnt want to have to be locked in to live here. But if the money is way more then anywhere else you would think they would have a ton of people. They couldnt even get 10
Truth

Utica, NY

#14 Mar 17, 2014
High Taxes and Riggies wrote:
<quoted text>
In theory this is great. In reality would you really expect the city of utica to open their books? It will never happen until the city is bankrupt and the state moves in.
Unfortunately I think you are right. It will happen only when it is forced on them. There are just too many alliances and the friends and family network is just too entrenched. When it does finally happen you'll hear all about how they think they are getting screwed by the state control board when the real truth is that they will have brought the whole thing down on their own heads and it could've been avoided.
High Taxes and Riggies

Clifton Park, NY

#15 Mar 17, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately I think you are right. It will happen only when it is forced on them. There are just too many alliances and the friends and family network is just too entrenched. When it does finally happen you'll hear all about how they think they are getting screwed by the state control board when the real truth is that they will have brought the whole thing down on their own heads and it could've been avoided.
I agree. They are like the thieves in a movie who get caught by the police while they are arguing over how the loot is divided up.
Sadly

Utica, NY

#16 Mar 17, 2014
You nailed it.
Keeler

Utica, NY

#17 Mar 17, 2014
The only thing Piersma nails is his fist every night!!
Parkway Riggies

Clifton Park, NY

#18 Mar 17, 2014
Keeler wrote:
The only thing Piersma nails is his fist every night!!
Pay your bills Bill.
Larry SREGGIN

New York, NY

#21 Mar 17, 2014
High Taxes and Riggies wrote:
<quoted text>
UPD. Always selling fear.
And "race blame".

They have a full-time troll here they call "AnalCretinTalker" who spends his days and shift online starting race baits and hate posts. He's been doing it for about 4 years now.

Selling fear and race hate on behalf of the "Oneida County Phony Leo Community" is Job#1.
Rachel Ray Riggies

Clifton Park, NY

#22 Mar 17, 2014
Larry SREGGIN wrote:
<quoted text>And "race blame".
They have a full-time troll here they call "AnalCretinTalker" who spends his days and shift online starting race baits and hate posts. He's been doing it for about 4 years now.
Selling fear and race hate on behalf of the "Oneida County Phony Leo Community" is Job#1.
I don't know if it's their job but they certainly act like it is.
Truth

Utica, NY

#23 Mar 18, 2014
fat and lazy on pension wrote:
<quoted text>Hate to discourage you but New York state PENSION fund has so much money in it it can buy the whole state of Rhode Island. Active PENSION boys are in SAFE mode ,only new ones after a certain date are possibly screwed.
You don't have to look any further than back to 2008 to understand how the New York State pension fund works. I will grant that there are laws in place that mandate 100% funding for that system making it different than many state pension systems but it certainly not self sustaining. The NYS pension fund depends partially on investments for revenue to sustain itself. After the crash of 2008 when their investments tanked(along with most every one else's), the pension system still needed funds to sustain itself. Because the law says that the system must be 100% funded they went where they always go - to the taxpayers. Taxpayers had to make up the difference between what was required to sustain and the non-return on investments.

In the event of another economic downturn the NYS Pension system will have to once again look to taxpayers for a bailout. This time though I think more taxpayers will revolt against the idea of supporting this bloated system that benefits only some. That is when current retirees could feel the pinch. If I were a pensioner I would be praying for a strong and sustained economic recovery. Don't believe for a minute that current benefits aren't at risk. Politicians may say it and public sector union newsletters might print it but plain common sense and simple math should tell you otherwise.
Riggie Riggies

Clifton Park, NY

#25 Mar 18, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have to look any further than back to 2008 to understand how the New York State pension fund works. I will grant that there are laws in place that mandate 100% funding for that system making it different than many state pension systems but it certainly not self sustaining. The NYS pension fund depends partially on investments for revenue to sustain itself. After the crash of 2008 when their investments tanked(along with most every one else's), the pension system still needed funds to sustain itself. Because the law says that the system must be 100% funded they went where they always go - to the taxpayers. Taxpayers had to make up the difference between what was required to sustain and the non-return on investments.
In the event of another economic downturn the NYS Pension system will have to once again look to taxpayers for a bailout. This time though I think more taxpayers will revolt against the idea of supporting this bloated system that benefits only some. That is when current retirees could feel the pinch. If I were a pensioner I would be praying for a strong and sustained economic recovery. Don't believe for a minute that current benefits aren't at risk. Politicians may say it and public sector union newsletters might print it but plain common sense and simple math should tell you otherwise.
It would be nice if my retirement accounts were protected by the taxpayer.
Truth

Utica, NY

#26 Mar 18, 2014
fat and lazy again wrote:
<quoted text>You sem to have forgotten when PATAKI was trying to suck some of the state pension monies out a few years back . All I am saying is that before the money grab or so called bailout is needed most of the older pensioners will be long gone off this earth and like I said the younger ones will have to deal with it. Right now with the stock market bloated with hungry investors like a casino things are looking great for the NYS pension system. And to make matters even better the comtroller also makes investments with the monies that cover the short side.
If we use what has happened in other places as a template for what would happen here then you are wrong. When the math catches up, the fund can no longer meet its' financial goals for sustainability and the taxpayers don't come up with the difference then all in the fund suffer. That includes current and future retirees.

You don't really think that if backed into a corner like this that the pension fund would just keep paying existing retirees at their current rate do you?

Google what happened in Central Falls, RI or about what is being proposed in Detroit. Existing retirees are paying the price for the mistakes of the past and are having their benefits cut. Like I said, if we use what has happened in other places as a template for what could happen in New York then all will suffer.

Eventually Tier 5 and Tier 6 will alleviate some of the problem but that is a generation or two away.
Upd

Utica, NY

#27 Mar 18, 2014
Ask tom lindsey how is pension is doing. If its so great then take the exam

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