Canucks wants Utica to guarantee revenue for AHL team

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Level 7

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#28
May 26, 2013
 

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Yay We Have A Fort wrote:
<quoted text>
100 percent true. And I love when people click the "nuts" or "disagree" buttons at the top of posts who have zero idea what they're talking about. These are all facts I've been repeating for months.
If things were so great here for the Devils, why, in 20 years, hasn't another AHL franchise set-up shop to play in such a great market? Please explain how a Utica team, playing in what will be the worst arena in the AHL, with a maximum capacity of 4,000 in a league which averages 5,600, possible succeed.

Here are the numbers: http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/ahl/20...

The lowest attended team averaged 3,500 a game. Does anyone think a Utica team would average much more than 2,000? The league averages 50% arena capacity. This is a joke. And again, if team wants to come here, great. Just don't take my tax money for something so obviously doomed to fail.

Good f.cking grief.
well

Rome, NY

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#31
May 27, 2013
 

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Yay We Have A Fort wrote:
<quoted text>
The team did not relocate because of poor fan support. I suggest you check the facts.
Well maybe not the sole reason but fan support certainly was a contributing factor with only a handful of games in the Devils tenure here drawing over 3,000....And unfortunately the same will repeat under this agreement if the Canucks are only "renting" Utica for a year or so you will see fan apathy at the turnstiles!!
well

Rome, NY

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#32
May 27, 2013
 

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Any guarantees should come from the investors and NOT the city or state!!
Bill

Utica, NY

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#34
May 27, 2013
 

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They wont average 1200 a game. Devils averaged under 2000 a game when Utica knew hockey. Now all blacks and immigrants could care less and seniors are to old. Chance of making it is 0%.
Disgusting

Utica, NY

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#37
May 27, 2013
 

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Bill wrote:
They wont average 1200 a game. Devils averaged under 2000 a game when Utica knew hockey. Now all blacks and immigrants could care less and seniors are to old. Chance of making it is 0%.
So other than you fabricating your average attendance figures where do you get them? Typical Utican who thinks they know everything. People like you are what keeps that area the crap hole it is.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_gr...
Level 3

Since: Jul 12

Bristol, CT

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#38
May 27, 2013
 

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Bill wrote:
They wont average 1200 a game. Devils averaged under 2000 a game when Utica knew hockey. Now all blacks and immigrants could care less and seniors are to old. Chance of making it is 0%.
the devils averaged between 2500 and 2700 each year they were here. if anything the base of hockey fans has expanded in this area with second and now third generations playing hockey in the area. whitesboros rink was built in the late 80s. i would guess there would be a even more devoted fan base now. question is can they average enough fans to keep the team viable. other cities have lost teams and gone several years without a team. the closest example is syracuse. they had no team while the devils were here, now they have a succesfull team. the fan base for this team is not utica, its the out lying areas like new hartford, clinton, whitesboro, rome and holland patent, herkimer frankfort illion. the aud is showing its age,and will need work, but even my 18 yr old helper is smart enough to figure out that a ahl team would be a asset to the area......
Dumb

Holland Patent, NY

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#39
May 27, 2013
 

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Stay safe and keep only UC there.
Good hockey,good ticket prices, raise them for a farm club and nobody will go.

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#40
May 27, 2013
 

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Disgusting wrote:
<quoted text>
So other than you fabricating your average attendance figures where do you get them? Typical Utican who thinks they know everything. People like you are what keeps that area the crap hole it is.
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_gr...
The 2,700 average attendance in 1993, when there was a huge push for people to come out and save the franchise for Utica, was (and is) HALF the league average. We lack the population base, income, and interest to support a team in this size league.

But again, I think even the biggest skeptics would love for it to work out. Just don't take my tax money to pursue some wildly unrealistic fantasy. Haven't we had enough of these scams, where rich, connected, insiders rob the impoverished taxpayers blind? If this is a great hockey town capable of supporting an AHL team, the owners don't need to reach into my pocket for tax money. The last thing this area can afford is corporate welfare for millionaire hockey team owners.

Good f.cking grief.

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#41
May 27, 2013
 

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sticks35 wrote:
<quoted text> the devils averaged between 2500 and 2700 each year they were here. if anything the base of hockey fans has expanded in this area with second and now third generations playing hockey in the area. whitesboros rink was built in the late 80s. i would guess there would be a even more devoted fan base now. question is can they average enough fans to keep the team viable. other cities have lost teams and gone several years without a team. the closest example is syracuse. they had no team while the devils were here, now they have a succesfull team. the fan base for this team is not utica, its the out lying areas like new hartford, clinton, whitesboro, rome and holland patent, herkimer frankfort illion. the aud is showing its age,and will need work, but even my 18 yr old helper is smart enough to figure out that a ahl team would be a asset to the area......
This is total fantasy, delusional wishful thinking completely devoid of any substance. The proposition that more kids are playing hockey, thus an AHL team will benefit from higher attendance, is complete speculation. What isn't speculation is the decline in population of the county, our below average income, and the area's changing demographics.

20 years ago, the Devils left Utica because of low attendance and an old, outdated, relic of an arena which was piss poor by that day's standards. The arena is still small and hasn't received a serious upgrade in the 2 decades since the Devils left. It's even more outdated and inadequate today. There is simply no reason to believe that today's Oneida County is any better positioned to support an AHL team than it was 20 years ago. To the contrary, given the decline in population, the condition of the aud compared to other AHL arenas, and the area's economic condition, we are even less able to support such a team.

And the comparison to Syracuse is absurd. Onondaga County has double the population of Oneida County, higher median income, and have a history of supporting an AHL team for 20 years with DOUBLE the average attendance than the Utica Devils ever had.

If this was such a great idea, they wouldn't be looking for taxpayer funded corporate welfare to underwrite the whole thing. This type of delusional wishful thinking is what ends up getting us taxpayers screwed time and time again.

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#42
May 27, 2013
 

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Truth Dig wrote:
<quoted text>
If things were so great here for the Devils, why, in 20 years, hasn't another AHL franchise set-up shop to play in such a great market? Please explain how a Utica team, playing in what will be the worst arena in the AHL, with a maximum capacity of 4,000 in a league which averages 5,600, possible succeed.
Here are the numbers: http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/ahl/20...
The lowest attended team averaged 3,500 a game. Does anyone think a Utica team would average much more than 2,000? The league averages 50% arena capacity. This is a joke. And again, if team wants to come here, great. Just don't take my tax money for something so obviously doomed to fail.
Good f.cking grief.
Sounds like they would have high ticket prices if they were to succeed. Utica is just not ready to support a team. They seem to be geographically suited to the league,but that is the only fit I see.

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#43
May 27, 2013
 

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sticks35 wrote:
<quoted text> the devils averaged between 2500 and 2700 each year they were here. if anything the base of hockey fans has expanded in this area with second and now third generations playing hockey in the area. whitesboros rink was built in the late 80s. i would guess there would be a even more devoted fan base now. question is can they average enough fans to keep the team viable. other cities have lost teams and gone several years without a team. the closest example is syracuse. they had no team while the devils were here, now they have a succesfull team. the fan base for this team is not utica, its the out lying areas like new hartford, clinton, whitesboro, rome and holland patent, herkimer frankfort illion. the aud is showing its age,and will need work, but even my 18 yr old helper is smart enough to figure out that a ahl team would be a asset to the area......
I think most people believe that a team would be an asset. If the Aud had enough capacity and we could get more good paying jobs,the people here would support a team. The taxpayers cannot support a guarantee to the team.

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#46
May 27, 2013
 

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Utica Signs Prisons Forts wrote:
<quoted text>
The devils did not leave because of low attendance figures.
But they left. And I don't believe this area is capable of supporting a team at this time.

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#48
May 27, 2013
 

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Utica Signs Prisons Forts wrote:
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They left because they were presented with the opportunity to pay less rent in a bigger arena and a bigger population. Utica lost the devils because of poor management of the auditorium.
Utica doesn't need to be used as a steppingstone again. When this area gets on its feet , then we will be able to support a franchise. Good idea , wrong time. Now if we are needed for a temporary home,that is a different story. We should not be guaranteeing any money to make them profitable,that is their job.

Level 7

Since: Apr 13

Utica, NY

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#49
May 27, 2013
 
I think so
Fhcbmkfffg

Whitesboro, NY

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#50
May 28, 2013
 
Haha
beer pong

New Hartford, NY

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#52
May 28, 2013
 

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Taxpayer wrote:
Hold on to your wallets
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/05/24/canuc...
The real concern when the Canucks sign on with Utica for their AHL affiliate should be in Abbotsford.
When it comes to the Heat, it could get worse before it gets better for ratepayers.
Unfortunately, there was a chance for it to be different. Itís not rocket engineering. If the Canucks had their farm club in Abby, theyíd finally have a shot at sustained financial success.
But that didnít happen, and thatís because
the Calgary Flames have six more years on a sweetheart deal in which the city guarantees that the team will receive $5.7 million a year in revenue.
If itís short, they dig into the taxpayersí wallets. Some bargain.
The Canucks are looking for some similar guarantees in the shorter deal theyíre negotiating with Utica.
Ya, who wouldnít be?
Utica wants a team and is willing to talk guaranteed revenue because they donít have much else to sell. They have an old, beaten up facility, which seats 4,000 and needs major refurbishing to get up to AHL standards.
If the Canucks go in there for a couple of years, itís a sure money pit if they donít have the city willing to offer up the public trough.
The deal is expected to be announced next week. If it falls apart, the Canucks have until June 13 to work something out. If they donít, their AHL team goes dormant, and their prospects will be spread around the AHL and ECHL. Itís a disastrous situation and one the 2009-10 Anaheim Ducks dealt with.
Another local-depression Complaint...

That article outta Vancouver is shit. They're not asking us for $$. Whoever is in on bringing a team here CAN'T be that stupid. If so then I'll reply to this saying I was wrong and ashamed.

The Vancouver media is just hyped up and pissed of at the Canucks at the moment. With high expectations and a 1st-round sweep you can't blame them. Calm down people. They know the tax-payers would frown on this so I'm sure it's a hoax. But if so, again, I'll admit I was DEAD WRONG.
True

Fulton, NY

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#53
May 28, 2013
 

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I agree with beer pong. They will not give this team a deal like Abbotsford,can't be done, we are broke. They are also pissed out there because they wanted the Cannucks close by in Abbotsford. If the state is putting 2 million or more into the building to get this done then good why not. The building needs the upgrades hockey team or not.
Truth

Utica, NY

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#55
May 28, 2013
 

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Utica Signs Prisons Forts wrote:
<quoted text>
And there are several people in the utica area that think you're wrong and using there own money.
A) How much as a percentage of the whole are the private investors kicking in do you suppose? B) How does that number compare to the taxpayer money being used? C) When/if there is a profit turned who will get those profits?

Here are my guesses
A) A very small percentage of the whole (if any at all)
B) See my guees for A
C) The private investors will see any profit. The taxpayer will see the same thing the taxpayers saw from the Hotel Utica, the City Center, Piers & Blake, the Stanley backstage renovation, GroWest..........
beer pong

New Hartford, NY

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#56
May 28, 2013
 
All opinions aside, does anyone have a statues on the "when" this could be "possibly" announced here locally?
Truth

Utica, NY

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#59
May 28, 2013
 
Utica Signs Prisons Forts wrote:
<quoted text>
Deal with it.
I think any local politician who puts their fingerprints on this is going to have to "deal with it" on election day.

You haven't answered the questions.

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