out of your head

New Hartford, NY

#21 Aug 19, 2014
Concerned wrote:
<quoted text>
I can promise that the above is absolutely untrue. Of course, my word means nothing on a site like this, so feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. While I have apparently succeeded in creating some controversy, that was absolutely not the point of this post. Furthermore, even though public schools often have unions, a teacher is not required to join a union at any type of school that I am presently aware of.
<quoted text>
Great idea. Go talk to them. Go ask how many teachers left this past year and ask why. Ask why they're bringing in several faculty members from Turkey. Ask why a current listing of the school's faculty is completely absent from their website. While you're at it, you might as well go for the full monty. Ask how they are related to the Islamic Gulen movement. But google the words utica academy gulen before you ask them and do a bit of your own research first. When you get their denial, when they state outright that they are not a Gulen school, then try to convince yourself "they have no reason to lie" about anything. This school is just like any otheróit has an agenda and reasons to lie when it suits them.
<quoted text>
I personally have no problem with charter schools. The point of my original post remains unchanged. That is to say that I am particularly concerned about this particular charter school due to the number of teachers jumping ship. My concern would be the same if it were a non-charter public school or a private school, Catholic or otherwise. Notre Dame and the other Utica-area schools don't seem to have nearly as high of a teacher turnover percentage.
Thanks for giving us all some greater insight into exactly who you are. The Gulen movement?? Seriously?? Exactly how many bath salts did you ingest?
Truth

Utica, NY

#22 Aug 19, 2014
Parent wrote:
<quoted text>
Read Truths answer- he states that charter schools are for profit. I guess you don't know what you are talking about !!!!!!
Charter schools are public schools funded with public taxpayer dollars but run independent of the local school system and board of education control. They get their funding from tax dollars and spend it the way they want. They are in essence publicly funded private schools.They may say they are not for profit but they are in reality private businesses.
Truth

Utica, NY

#23 Aug 19, 2014
Concerned wrote:
<quoted text>
I can promise that the above is absolutely untrue. Of course, my word means nothing on a site like this, so feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. While I have apparently succeeded in creating some controversy, that was absolutely not the point of this post. Furthermore, even though public schools often have unions, a teacher is not required to join a union at any type of school that I am presently aware of.
You're right. Teachers are not required to join the union but in New York but what about agency fees if they choose not to?
Regardez

New Hartford, NY

#24 Aug 19, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Charter schools are public schools funded with public taxpayer dollars but run independent of the local school system and board of education control. They get their funding from tax dollars and spend it the way they want. They are in essence publicly funded private schools.They may say they are not for profit but they are in reality private businesses.
Wrong as usual, untruth. Stop stating your lowly opinion as fact. They areNOT private at all. They are public and are not private businesses. You have your head up your ass again if you think anyone is going to swallow your shit without sources--- you know, the things you can never provide for your sweeping twisted statements. For anyone who is interested, this poster has twisted the truth to conform with his own will so many times, even he can' t keep his delusions straight.
Idea

Syracuse, NY

#25 Aug 19, 2014
Ok so if they accept public funds they should be subject to the same rules as the public schools. It's my opinion that they should also have to accept a student body that is demographically proportionally equal to the public school if they are to be seriously compared. You have to compare apples to apples and if say 60% of the charter school is made up of students who come from stable 2 parent homes as opposed to 10% in the public school (hypothetical math but you get my drift), how can you fairly compare the two?
elocution

New Hartford, NY

#26 Aug 19, 2014
Idea wrote:
Ok so if they accept public funds they should be subject to the same rules as the public schools. It's my opinion that they should also have to accept a student body that is demographically proportionally equal to the public school if they are to be seriously compared. You have to compare apples to apples and if say 60% of the charter school is made up of students who come from stable 2 parent homes as opposed to 10% in the public school (hypothetical math but you get my drift), how can you fairly compare the two?
Horseshit you say. They are chosen by lottery. Everyone has an equal chance. It does not get any more fair than that.
Jeezus

Utica, NY

#27 Aug 19, 2014
Truth is an idiot! Charter schools educate everybody? Hardly. ESL, special ed., who teaches them? Public schools, do! I know teachers that are teaching in charter schools because regular public schools aren't hiring. As soon as they have an oppurtunity to leave, they leave.
Tests scores are better in charter schools because students are better students. In Utica, many charter school kids are Asian. Asian s value education. My son taught in Korea, for 3 years. They go to school basically from 8-4, then go to tutoring til 9. They are taught to pass rigid tests. If they fail they disgrace their family. Much pressure, high suicide rate among teens. This makes the Korean work force one of the worst. Why? They can't adapt well when facing problems on the job. They're like robots, to always do things the same way. In Vietnam, Truth, teens take a placement test, if they fail, do you you know what happens to them? They don't go to vocational schools, they become "beggars," that's right, BEGGARS! Living in shantys, begging for food. A Vietnamese student told me this when she went to Vietnam to visit her relatives. So Truth, answer me this? Why do "lily white suburban schools test a lot higher than Utica?
I hate to stereotype but many minorities don't value education. Is that why, Truth? You know it. Put the teachers from Proctor in New Hartford, and you'll get the same if not better results! So Truth, unions are the blame. Yea right. Fuck you, asshole.
Idea

Syracuse, NY

#28 Aug 20, 2014
elocution wrote:
<quoted text>
Horseshit you say. They are chosen by lottery. Everyone has an equal chance. It does not get any more fair than that.
No not horseshit. If one schools demographics is considerably different than the other you can't compare them. Ever do a science experiment? Ever heard of a control group? That's why inner city schools can't really be compared to suburban schools. The kids live in two entirely different worlds.

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#29 Aug 20, 2014
The students in the Utica charter school did not out-perform all of the Utica public schools. If you check the scores, one elementary school (Utica's largest) scored better and some other schools were about the same as the charter school. Considering the demographics of the schools and the longer school day, one would think the charter school would have done considerably better. I guess the charter schools don't have all the answers.
Truth

Utica, NY

#30 Aug 20, 2014
Regardez wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong as usual, untruth. Stop stating your lowly opinion as fact. They areNOT private at all. They are public and are not private businesses. You have your head up your ass again if you think anyone is going to swallow your shit without sources--- you know, the things you can never provide for your sweeping twisted statements. For anyone who is interested, this poster has twisted the truth to conform with his own will so many times, even he can' t keep his delusions straight.
Please read this from the Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-singer/cha...

It's a wide ranging criticism of charter schools financing. I don't agree with it in general but it does use facts in order to make the argument. In addition to all of the information they give to support their opinion that many are getting wealth off supposedly not for profit charter schools, it says this:
"In New York State, only 16 out of 209 charter schools are operated by for-profit companies. In other states, particularly Michigan, Florida, and Arizona, for-profit companies dominate the charter school movement. In Michigan, about 65% of the charter schools are run by for-profit educational management organizations"

Those facts speak volumes about the validity of you vile post . Charter schools are both private for-profit and not-for-profit. Look up "educational management organizations". Do I seem delusional? Anyone?
Truth

Utica, NY

#31 Aug 20, 2014
Jeezus wrote:
Truth is an idiot! Charter schools educate everybody? Hardly. ESL, special ed., who teaches them? Public schools, do! I know teachers that are teaching in charter schools because regular public schools aren't hiring. As soon as they have an oppurtunity to leave, they leave.
Tests scores are better in charter schools because students are better students. In Utica, many charter school kids are Asian. Asian s value education. My son taught in Korea, for 3 years. They go to school basically from 8-4, then go to tutoring til 9. They are taught to pass rigid tests. If they fail they disgrace their family. Much pressure, high suicide rate among teens. This makes the Korean work force one of the worst. Why? They can't adapt well when facing problems on the job. They're like robots, to always do things the same way. In Vietnam, Truth, teens take a placement test, if they fail, do you you know what happens to them? They don't go to vocational schools, they become "beggars," that's right, BEGGARS! Living in shantys, begging for food. A Vietnamese student told me this when she went to Vietnam to visit her relatives. So Truth, answer me this? Why do "lily white suburban schools test a lot higher than Utica?
I hate to stereotype but many minorities don't value education. Is that why, Truth? You know it. Put the teachers from Proctor in New Hartford, and you'll get the same if not better results! So Truth, unions are the blame. Yea right. Fuck you, asshole.
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strongest attribute. Are you actually comparing Korean schools to U.S. charter schools?

I didn't say make all schools charter schools. I said I would like to see all schools fixed. Facts don't lie. Public education in the United States has been in decline since teachers were given collective bargaining rights(unions). That decline accelerated as the flower children of the late sixties became the teachers of the seventies. They all seemed to think they had a better way to educate children. What we ended up with now are high school graduates unprepared for college and college graduates unprepared for the workforce. Volumes have been written in the subject. These are facts. They aren't just emotion based rants.

The unions have become a force of nature especially in New York. If you look up who spends the most money lobbying our representatives in Albany you find that teacher's unions are number two right behind healthcare and just above trail lawyers. Yes I do blame the power of the teacher's unions for a lot of the decline. My original point was that if the non-union charter schools outperform the traditional public schools the my hypothesis has to be looked at. Like I said, if non-union charter schools outperform traditional public schools then it's a nightmare scenario for the unions. The unions have a vested interest in seeing charter schools fail and enough money to fund the campaign to make that so. If you don't think that is happening then you are very naÔve.

The lottery system used to choose who may go to the charter schools is color blind. Any child(regardless of ethnicity) from the district may apply and cannot be rejected on the basis of race, creed, color or financial status. What does that say about your statement regarding Asian students in the Utica charter.

The filthy language is the sign of a weak point of view and an even weaker mind.
Truth

Utica, NY

#32 Aug 20, 2014
JusticeDefiled13501 wrote:
The students in the Utica charter school did not out-perform all of the Utica public schools. If you check the scores, one elementary school (Utica's largest) scored better and some other schools were about the same as the charter school. Considering the demographics of the schools and the longer school day, one would think the charter school would have done considerably better. I guess the charter schools don't have all the answers.
The jury is still out and just like in the example you've given, results are mixed.

The charter is only five years and can be revoked if the school doesn't meet specific goals spelled out in the charter. Give them time. The Utica charter has only ben open for a year. If they were performing worse than the rest of the Utica schools it would be cause for concern.

It is in the financial best interest of the educational management agencies who run the charters to see that these schools do outperform the traditional public schools. With profit as a motivator and the threat of revocation of the charter, they are going to work hard to make it happen. I think that if they are able to show that they can better educate their students when compared to traditional public schools then there will be a revolution in education. Parents(taxpayers) will demand it.
Yup

New Hartford, NY

#33 Aug 20, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Please read this from the Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-singer/cha...
It's a wide ranging criticism of charter schools financing. I don't agree with it in general but it does use facts in order to make the argument. In addition to all of the information they give to support their opinion that many are getting wealth off supposedly not for profit charter schools, it says this:
"In New York State, only 16 out of 209 charter schools are operated by for-profit companies. In other states, particularly Michigan, Florida, and Arizona, for-profit companies dominate the charter school movement. In Michigan, about 65% of the charter schools are run by for-profit educational management organizations"
Those facts speak volumes about the validity of you vile post . Charter schools are both private for-profit and not-for-profit. Look up "educational management organizations". Do I seem delusional? Anyone?
Yes, you do seem delusional. Whenever I see your moniker I either brush right past your post without reading it or, if I'm in a particularly whimsical mood, I will go out into the garage and put my hip boots on before I delve into your latest shit load.
Idea

Syracuse, NY

#34 Aug 20, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The jury is still out and just like in the example you've given, results are mixed.
The charter is only five years and can be revoked if the school doesn't meet specific goals spelled out in the charter. Give them time. The Utica charter has only ben open for a year. If they were performing worse than the rest of the Utica schools it would be cause for concern.
It is in the financial best interest of the educational management agencies who run the charters to see that these schools do outperform the traditional public schools. With profit as a motivator and the threat of revocation of the charter, they are going to work hard to make it happen. I think that if they are able to show that they can better educate their students when compared to traditional public schools then there will be a revolution in education. Parents(taxpayers) will demand it.
With money as a motivator ( or threat) for revocation of a charter and little or no oversight or accountability, these schools will cheat to get the results they need. This is exactly what happened in Washington DC. The pressure to make kids perform beyond their ability level was incredible so cheating was off the charts and DC scrapped the whole "reform" movement and Michelle Rhee along with it. You will never fix schools until you deal with the home life problems that kids live with. And that- contrary to what bleeding hearts believe- is not up to the school system. The schools job is to focus on educating. The family's job is to nurture and raise their child. The schools just can't do it all anymore.
Truth

Utica, NY

#36 Aug 21, 2014
Yup wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you do seem delusional. Whenever I see your moniker I either brush right past your post without reading it or, if I'm in a particularly whimsical mood, I will go out into the garage and put my hip boots on before I delve into your latest shit load.
Did I or did I not prove what I said was true? You don't need boots to wade through facts, juts the ability to read and comprehend. An open mind willing to admit when you are wrong is helpful as well.

If you don't like the things I post then by all means move along. If you can prove me wrong or teach me something I honestly welcome that. Emotional rants void of facts and full of bad language and name calling are what one should brush right past as they reflect the intelligence of the post and the poster.
Truth

Utica, NY

#37 Aug 21, 2014
Idea wrote:
<quoted text>
With money as a motivator ( or threat) for revocation of a charter and little or no oversight or accountability, these schools will cheat to get the results they need. This is exactly what happened in Washington DC. The pressure to make kids perform beyond their ability level was incredible so cheating was off the charts and DC scrapped the whole "reform" movement and Michelle Rhee along with it. You will never fix schools until you deal with the home life problems that kids live with. And that- contrary to what bleeding hearts believe- is not up to the school system. The schools job is to focus on educating. The family's job is to nurture and raise their child. The schools just can't do it all anymore.
Cheating in D.C. schools was an allegation that was never completely proven. At least three investigations held after Rhee left found no evidence of widespread cheating. What did come out in the investigation though was that in the cases where cheating was found it was the teachers in D.C. that were facilitating the cheating in order to get test scores up. This, an obvious effort to keep the focus off of teacher accountability and avoid the consequences for failure.

Michelle Rhee fired a lot of under-performing teachers and administrators during here time as chancellor of the D.C. schools and that made here a target of the powerful unions. As a result of a pressure brought about by a massive smear campaign she resigned. Money and teacher tenure were the motivators in that effort.
Jeezus

Seattle, WA

#38 Aug 21, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strongest attribute. Are you actually comparing Korean schools to U.S. charter schools?
I didn't say make all schools charter schools. I said I would like to see all schools fixed. Facts don't lie. Public education in the United States has been in decline since teachers were given collective bargaining rights(unions). That decline accelerated as the flower children of the late sixties became the teachers of the seventies. They all seemed to think they had a better way to educate children. What we ended up with now are high school graduates unprepared for college and college graduates unprepared for the workforce. Volumes have been written in the subject. These are facts. They aren't just emotion based rants.
The unions have become a force of nature especially in New York. If you look up who spends the most money lobbying our representatives in Albany you find that teacher's unions are number two right behind healthcare and just above trail lawyers. Yes I do blame the power of the teacher's unions for a lot of the decline. My original point was that if the non-union charter schools outperform the traditional public schools the my hypothesis has to be looked at. Like I said, if non-union charter schools outperform traditional public schools then it's a nightmare scenario for the unions. The unions have a vested interest in seeing charter schools fail and enough money to fund the campaign to make that so. If you don't think that is happening then you are very naÔve.
The lottery system used to choose who may go to the charter schools is color blind. Any child(regardless of ethnicity) from the district may apply and cannot be rejected on the basis of race, creed, color or financial status. What does that say about your statement regarding Asian students in the Utica charter.
The filthy language is the sign of a weak point of view and an even weaker mind.
Duh, I a retahd! Educated in public schools, taught by union teachers. Who taught you? You still don't get it, do you? To me you're just jealous of teachers, but couldn't become one. Teachers. are underpaid professionals, unions gave them perks instead of higher deserved pay. You have no idea what it's like to teach in a school like Proctor. You wouldn't last past taking attendance.
Oh yeah

New Hartford, NY

#39 Aug 21, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I or did I not prove what I said was true? You don't need boots to wade through facts, juts the ability to read and comprehend. An open mind willing to admit when you are wrong is helpful as well.
If you don't like the things I post then by all means move along. If you can prove me wrong or teach me something I honestly welcome that. Emotional rants void of facts and full of bad language and name calling are what one should brush right past as they reflect the intelligence of the post and the poster.
YOU Posed the question. The poster answered it. There was no rant, only a refreshingly honest answer to YOUR question. If you are not prepared for the answers to your own questions, then don't ask them. You are a sore head upset at someone who got the better of you after you set yourself up. Grow up, whiner.

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#40 Aug 21, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess reading comprehension isn't your strongest attribute. Are you actually comparing Korean schools to U.S. charter schools?
I didn't say make all schools charter schools. I said I would like to see all schools fixed. Facts don't lie. Public education in the United States has been in decline since teachers were given collective bargaining rights(unions). That decline accelerated as the flower children of the late sixties became the teachers of the seventies. They all seemed to think they had a better way to educate children. What we ended up with now are high school graduates unprepared for college and college graduates unprepared for the workforce. Volumes have been written in the subject. These are facts. They aren't just emotion based rants.
The unions have become a force of nature especially in New York. If you look up who spends the most money lobbying our representatives in Albany you find that teacher's unions are number two right behind healthcare and just above trail lawyers. Yes I do blame the power of the teacher's unions for a lot of the decline. My original point was that if the non-union charter schools outperform the traditional public schools the my hypothesis has to be looked at. Like I said, if non-union charter schools outperform traditional public schools then it's a nightmare scenario for the unions. The unions have a vested interest in seeing charter schools fail and enough money to fund the campaign to make that so. If you don't think that is happening then you are very naÔve.
The lottery system used to choose who may go to the charter schools is color blind. Any child(regardless of ethnicity) from the district may apply and cannot be rejected on the basis of race, creed, color or financial status. What does that say about your statement regarding Asian students in the Utica charter.
The filthy language is the sign of a weak point of view and an even weaker mind.
There are a few flaws to your argument; the first being the assumption that there is a problem with public schools in this country. When ALL public schools are compared to schools in other countries we surely donít look good. However, when large urban schools are removed from the mix we stack up quite well in the comparison. This would negate your accusation that teachers unions are to blame for our education problems. In reality it would indicate that poverty, parental education levels and other social problems seem to have a greater impact on student achievement. Considering that urban districts have the highest percentage of English Language Learners (ELL) and Students with Disabilities (SWD) then these factors would carry some weight also. Another flaws is that charter schools out-perform public schools. The jury is still out on this. There are some charter schools, especially in New York City that have been performing spectacularly. But there have also been charter schools throughout the country that have been miserable failures.

Saying the lottery system used by charter schools is fair leaves one thinking that all variables have been taken into account. That is not always the case. A student can only be chosen from the lottery if their name was included. Since not all students applied for the charters, the ones whose parents didnít care didnít have a chance to get in. This would mean that the students who were chosen were the ones whose parents decided that education was important to them. I would guess that the kids who needed it the most, the ones whose parents donít take an active interest in their future, werenít included in the lottery at all.

There are many problems with education in the U.S. To try and find the ONE cause is senseless. If we remove all the teachers unions in America the problem would not be solved. The problems are complex and the solutions will be equally complex. We need to stop placing blame and start finding solutions.
Parent

Cheshire, CT

#41 Aug 21, 2014
Regardez wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong as usual, untruth. Stop stating your lowly opinion as fact. They areNOT private at all. They are public and are not private businesses. You have your head up your ass again if you think anyone is going to swallow your shit without sources--- you know, the things you can never provide for your sweeping twisted statements. For anyone who is interested, this poster has twisted the truth to conform with his own will so many times, even he can' t keep his delusions straight.
Most charter schools are private for profit schools.. The ones that say they are public do so to get tax dollars-but they are run by boards that are paid out of those public funds. There are many articles available on line- please read them

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