Tony Picente Negotiating with Oneidas

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Sick Of It

Auburn, NY

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#1
May 21, 2009
 

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Day 1

Our Tony: Pay your taxes
OIN: No

Day 2

Our Tony: Please pay your taxes
OIN: No

Day 3

Our Tony: Don't you want to pay your taxes?
OIN: No

Day 4

Our Tony: If I ask you nicely will you pay your taxes?
OIN: No

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Two years later ...

Our Tony: Well if you don't want to pay your taxes - what do you want?
OIN: We want you to leave us alone, we think County government is incompetent and corrupt and when we talk to you our head hurts.

Our Tony: Can't you give me something?
OIN: OK we'll pay you some money but we want you to give us a liquor license, let us build what we want, and never mention taxes to us again.

Our Tony: Anything else?
OIN: Yeah - bark like a dog for us.

Our Tony: Big or small?
OIN: Your call

Our Tony: Arf Arf
OIN: Attaboy, here's a milkbone now go tell everyone what a great job you're doing

Our Tony: Awesome I got a deal!!
BPS1

Auburn, NY

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#2
May 22, 2009
 
At least Tony tried. What about Roann Destito? She's become a wealthy woman while representing us against the very people that pay her! Nice work if you can get it!
fedup

Waltham, MA

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#3
May 22, 2009
 
Good job by the Rep Oneida County Legislators to go against their own party in shutting down this bad deal. This was truly both parties coming together for the people.
Just Sayin

Ithaca, NY

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#4
May 22, 2009
 
Yeah, give Picente an A for effort but this was the worst deal between the White man and the Red man since Manhattan Island went for $24 worth of beads.
Sick Of It

Auburn, NY

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#5
May 22, 2009
 

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BPS1 wrote:
At least Tony tried. What about Roann Destito? She's become a wealthy woman while representing us against the very people that pay her! Nice work if you can get it!
Don't you think Tony was pushing this to get some of that Oneida good will and for personal benefit? Why else sell out for such a flawed plan with only a near term benefit, no changes allowed and a quick vote approval. He needs to go along with Roanne and Joe G right behind him - they are less than useless.
sixty-six

Camillus, NY

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#6
May 22, 2009
 

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I'm voting my legislator out! Us seniors wanted that deal to go through. I didn't vote for Picente last time, but I will now.
Sixty Seven

New Castle, IN

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#7
May 22, 2009
 
Hey 66,

You might one of a very few people that thinks this was a good deal. Did you read it?
Answer

Boston, MA

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#8
May 22, 2009
 

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At least he did something. It's more than the grandstanding we see from Tanoury and Hennessy who do nothing more than criticize without offering any meaningful solutions.
The local share if the sales tax is the only thing the County Executive has any control over. It is the state government that is in charge of the bulk of the sales tax and it is the federal government that is in charge of the land into trust. The County Executive can NOT negotiate for them. He is only in control of so much. People who criticize him, like the person who started this thread, should educate themselves.
Look at where we are now. No aggreement, no negotiations and the OIN has issued a statement wishing the legislature good luck with their ongoing work and problems, minus $55 million that would have no doubt helped.
Congratulations to all of those who killed this agreement. You've won the battle but in the long run I think you'll find that you've lost the war.
Sick Of It

Auburn, NY

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#9
May 22, 2009
 
Answer wrote:
At least he did something. It's more than the grandstanding we see from Tanoury and Hennessy who do nothing more than criticize without offering any meaningful solutions.
The local share if the sales tax is the only thing the County Executive has any control over. It is the state government that is in charge of the bulk of the sales tax and it is the federal government that is in charge of the land into trust. The County Executive can NOT negotiate for them. He is only in control of so much. People who criticize him, like the person who started this thread, should educate themselves.
Look at where we are now. No aggreement, no negotiations and the OIN has issued a statement wishing the legislature good luck with their ongoing work and problems, minus $55 million that would have no doubt helped.
Congratulations to all of those who killed this agreement. You've won the battle but in the long run I think you'll find that you've lost the war.
I started this and an agreement would be good for all parties. The question remains "Is this that agreement??" Presented as a take it or leave it with little enforcement behind it this was taking a bad situation and compounding it with a Pandora's box of things the OIN could do to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.

As for the "grandstanding" yes it's bad - especially when you see that our side has barely the smarts for checkers and Ray Holbritter is a master chess player.

What it all comes down to is we need new leadership on both the Dem and Rep sides these guys (County, State and Fed) are clueless.

Tell me someone disagrees with that??
Answer

Boston, MA

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#10
May 22, 2009
 
Sick Of It wrote:
<quoted text>
I started this and an agreement would be good for all parties. The question remains "Is this that agreement??" Presented as a take it or leave it with little enforcement behind it this was taking a bad situation and compounding it with a Pandora's box of things the OIN could do to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else.
As for the "grandstanding" yes it's bad - especially when you see that our side has barely the smarts for checkers and Ray Holbritter is a master chess player.
What it all comes down to is we need new leadership on both the Dem and Rep sides these guys (County, State and Fed) are clueless.
Tell me someone disagrees with that??
You started this thread with sarcasm giving the impression the the County Executive was nothing more than a lap dog to the OIN and caving to their every demand. That is not true. First,$55 million is not exactly chump change even for a sucessful enterprise.
Second, this agreement represents two years of negotiation. Negotiation means that two sides sat together and came up with a compromise that benefited both parties. In that negotiation Mr. Picente can only negotiate with what he has power over. He has no power over the sales tax issue. That would be the state. He has no control over the land into trust issue. That would be the federal government.
The true measure of the agreement is "where are we now?" and "where will we be in the future?". Right now we are without any agreement therefore we are without any revenue from the OIN. The OIN has waved off any chance of a reopening of negotiations. Please tell me what impetus the OIN has to negotiate further at this point. None would be the answer. Yes, they want a liquor license but in the meantime they seem to be doing quite well without it.
Time will tell who is right. I just think that this will now drag on for years and years in the courts with no winners except the lawyers.
Sick Of It

Auburn, NY

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#11
May 22, 2009
 
Answer wrote:
<quoted text>
You started this thread with sarcasm giving the impression the the County Executive was nothing more than a lap dog to the OIN and caving to their every demand. That is not true. First,$55 million is not exactly chump change even for a sucessful enterprise.
Second, this agreement represents two years of negotiation. Negotiation means that two sides sat together and came up with a compromise that benefited both parties. In that negotiation Mr. Picente can only negotiate with what he has power over. He has no power over the sales tax issue. That would be the state. He has no control over the land into trust issue. That would be the federal government.
The true measure of the agreement is "where are we now?" and "where will we be in the future?". Right now we are without any agreement therefore we are without any revenue from the OIN. The OIN has waved off any chance of a reopening of negotiations. Please tell me what impetus the OIN has to negotiate further at this point. None would be the answer. Yes, they want a liquor license but in the meantime they seem to be doing quite well without it.
Time will tell who is right. I just think that this will now drag on for years and years in the courts with no winners except the lawyers.
You are making my point - the leaders we have now don't know what they're doing. Where is the School, State, Feds in all this?? How is it that this guy starts this without a coordinated solution from the major players as a goal?!?

Solving a small fraction of a problem can easily lead to more critical problems because negotiations between a County Exec and the OIN is a miss match from the start.

You ask where the motivation was for the OIN? It was that the OIN COULD treat him as a lapdog because there was no other group there pushing for full solutions and applying more pressure.

Why wasn't Roann there representing the State - because she represents the Savoy that's why.

Where was Rep Arcuri - cowering under his desk because he didn't want to risk his seat with a controversy?

So put simply the OIN was taking advantage of our County lead so they could divide and conquer whatever forces are against them. As I said the County plays checkers while the OIN plays chess and if he didn't recognize that he really is in way over his head.
Taxman

Oneonta, NY

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#12
May 22, 2009
 

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The entire premise of negotiations with the Oneidas is a farse.

#1- The agreement as written would rely on New York State changing its sales tax laws.( fat chance)

#2 - The agreement as written does not encumber the next Sheriff to abide by the deputization agreement. If the next Sheriff changes his/her mind the deal is off.

#3 - The agreement as written would allow the Oneidas to ask for their money back if some court actually follows the laws as written and caps are denys land into trust.

With all that said, the agreement is a big roll of the dice which could come back and cost the County the 55 million dollars recieved it things go sour.

The legislature recognised the risk and deemed it too much to gamble on considering the track record of the Oneida's keeping their word.

Ask the Stockbridge school district about them keeping their word. I can also remember the Oneidas agreeing to collect 2% bed tax when the hotel opened.They did collect it and then decided to keep it.......

You cannot negotiate a deal unless you have the power to enforce its outcome

resident

United States

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#13
May 23, 2009
 
How about the fact that they make over 200 million in one year. The residents of this county are supposed to be happy with 55 million dollars over a 10 year period. This is an absolutely absurd deal and anyone who voted for it should be voted out. I voted for Picente and I think he has done nothing but sell everyone one out. I work for the county and he played a smooth one on the caseworkers making several of them think he was looking out for them and then turing the tables.

No if he was interested in brokering a real deal, he would have looked for reoccuring payments from the Nation, caps on land deals. The county loses what 10 to 12 million dollars a year just on taxes that we would have received from cigarettes. No I think he sold out and sold out big. I only hope he didn't spend the money he was getting already.
Answer wrote:
At least he did something. It's more than the grandstanding we see from Tanoury and Hennessy who do nothing more than criticize without offering any meaningful solutions.
The local share if the sales tax is the only thing the County Executive has any control over. It is the state government that is in charge of the bulk of the sales tax and it is the federal government that is in charge of the land into trust. The County Executive can NOT negotiate for them. He is only in control of so much. People who criticize him, like the person who started this thread, should educate themselves.
Look at where we are now. No aggreement, no negotiations and the OIN has issued a statement wishing the legislature good luck with their ongoing work and problems, minus $55 million that would have no doubt helped.
Congratulations to all of those who killed this agreement. You've won the battle but in the long run I think you'll find that you've lost the war.
Okay

Watertown, NY

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#14
May 24, 2009
 
Picente and Destito make their living from nepotism and inside deals. If anyone thinks these two are really there to represent us, think again. They promote what is best for their own interests first, and have proven it time and time again. I'm sorry, who's your brother-in-law? Oh, and whose husband has a deal with the Indians? I cannot believe how blind people around here really are to this crap.
Thinkaboutit

Rome, NY

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#15
May 24, 2009
 
Where does Oneida County stand now?
Is there any chance of any kind of agreement in the near term? No.
Won't this just continue at a snail's pace through the courts? Yes.
Even if there is a ruling in favor of collecting something doesn't it still have to be enforced? Fat chance.

Oneida County needs to take what it can get because it's obvious that the state and the feds are not interested in pursuing this in a way that will make the OIN want to negotiate a true settlement of everything. Killing this agreement is a mistake.
Not True

Shelbyville, IN

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#16
May 24, 2009
 
A bad settlement is worse than no settlement. If/when the land finally goes into trust, the Oneida's will have to pay all back taxes.

I bet they calculated it at 55 million.
Sick Of It

Auburn, NY

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#17
May 25, 2009
 
No doubt this is a mess and the biggest part of it is the State and our incredible lack of leadership in all parts of NYS government.

This is what we pay the highest taxes in the country for??
DOG

Astoria, NY

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#18
May 25, 2009
 
another goombah??!
save us

Williamson, NY

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#19
Oct 15, 2011
 
oh the state will chage the sales tax laws. they have already did teir studies.the only part is when and it won't involve the native nations.sometime 2012. uptick another 2 or 3 points state sales. and county's 1.5.this will save us from higher tax down the road.L.O.L.the anoucment will come in march or early april.
what goes around

Utica, NY

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#20
Oct 16, 2011
 
save us wrote:
oh the state will chage the sales tax laws. they have already did teir studies.the only part is when and it won't involve the native nations.sometime 2012. uptick another 2 or 3 points state sales. and county's 1.5.this will save us from higher tax down the road.L.O.L.the anoucment will come in march or early april.
Ummm, spell much???

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