Truth

Utica, NY

#78 Feb 1, 2014
Biig Willie wrote:
<quoted text> When corporations are allowed to operate without government regulation, we have a boom/ bust cycle. Tax cuts for the rich and deregulation led to the roaring twenties. and the the inevitable bust.. Roosevelt reined in big business ,:( Glass Steagle, act, etc.) tax rates at around 90%.. We created the greatest middle class in the world, ever! Ronald Regan and every president since reversed those policies. You can try to put all the blame on the unions but, but, even conservative economists : Greenspan, Bernanke etc. say it was deregulation and malfeasance that caused the latest crash.
I never said there should be NO regulation. Of course there has to be regulation but it has to be balanced against the realities of business and not based on emotion.

You are talking about different things all at once.
Manufacturing left the U.S. because the price of organized labor rose to point where it is more profitable(that's why businesses exist-to make a profit) to make things offshore and have them shipped back here than it is to pay the cost of U.S. labor. That's part of the global economy we live in. Labor unions either never saw it coming or refused to believe it would happen. It did and that's what happened to the middle class.

The catalyst for the latest crash was the housing market. You've no doubt heard the phrase "the housing bubble burst". It started with President Clinton's "ownership society". The idea that home ownership should be made more available to a wider range of people. That idea was wholeheartedly embraced by President Bush and he actually took it to new heights. At the urging and with the backing of the U.S. government, normal common sense rules for mortgage lending were suspended in order for more people to qualify. Banks invented all sorts things to accommodate this. Things like interest only loans came into being and made home ownership a reality for people who would never have qualified before. It was great for a while. Many more people could own a home. Supply and demand kicked in and property values went up because demand exceeded supply. When property values went up existing homeowners had more equity. They traded in that (false)equity for cash and went to Disney World and bought new cars and boats. That created a bubble and the bubble burst. When it burst millions of people were left with homes worth less than they owed, mortgages they couldn't afford so they defaulted. Yes, banks did many hings they should not have but they did them at the urging and full knowledge of the U/S. government.

Wanting everyone to be able to own a home in an admirable goal. It just doesn't make sense when you apply simple business principles. It's an emotional rather than logical thing. Wanting everyone to earn a wage where they can afford the better things in life is also an admirable goal but like the "ownership society" it's based on emotion and not on good business sense.
Hmmm

New Hartford, NY

#79 Feb 1, 2014
tools r fools wrote:
<quoted text>
oh now i get it. my bad. i didn't know the conversation had deteriorated to the totally abstract.
have at it but there's no point in arguing your fantasies. beyond that i can only comment that of course there will always be minimum wage earners. you call it "lowest wage class". how imperial of you....but whatever it is, it needs to be realistic, livable and not so low that that full time workers qualify for welfare benefits. get it?(didn't think so what with your bubble mentality)
I figured a similar reply, though how much of a fantasy is it? When someone proposes money should come out of your pocket to aid somenone get off of minimum raise it is a fantasy. However, when a Liberal suggests money should come out of the pocket of someone else (or a corporation) making a large sum of money then for some reason it is OK.... Just because someone works harder or has more money does not make it more right. Does it? What you are basically suggesting is this country should be more socialistic. Steal from the rich and give it to the poor so we all make similar wages regardless of the skills, education, or ambition each....
Truth

Utica, NY

#80 Feb 1, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text> Of course the Tea Party arguments are infantile, at best. What's notable here is the dialogue is all about minimum wage, food stamps, etc. No mention of bank C.E.Os, hedge fund managers, lobbyists, et al. No mention of the corporatization of America. No mention of the Mitt Romneys of the world. The guys who shipped millions of American jobs overseas. Without some protections American workers will be reduced to competing with Chinese coolies for wages. What these Tea party loons don't get is that their wages are being slowly, but surely dragged down too. Now they will run around in circles screaming "BEN GAHZI" .Whatever the hell that means?
These aren't Tea Party arguments. They are common sense business opinions. No mention of off-shoring jobs? There is plenty of mention. You just don't seem to like or agree with how and why it happened.

Just so you can know what you are saying here's a link to the Tea Party 'About Us' page. I'm not a member but I agree with a lot of what they stand for.
http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/
And here's what their core beliefs are:
1. Illegal aliens are here illegally.
2. Pro-domestic employment is indispensable.
3. A strong military is essential.
4. Special interests must be eliminated.
5. Gun ownership is sacred.
6. Government must be downsized.
7. The national budget must be balanced.
8. Deficit spending must end.
9. Bailout and stimulus plans are illegal.
10. Reducing personal income taxes is a must.
11. Reducing business income taxes is mandatory.
12. Political offices must be available to average citizens.
13. Intrusive government must be stopped.
14. English as our core language is required.
15. Traditional family values are encouraged.

Is there anything here that would lead one to believe that they are either for or against a higher minimum wage?

Benghazi is about Americans being killed in a foreign land and the our government lying repeatedly about the who, what and why of the incident. The reality is that the right is blaming Hillary Clinton(presumed 2016 presidential candidate) so she looks bad. This is very much like the left's current campaign to make Gov Chris Christie(presumed 2016 presidential candidate) look bad for some lane closures. Neither is right but if I look at things in orders of magnitude I have to say that Americans being killed because they didn't get the help they asked for is much more serious than inconveniencing some people crossing a bridge to Fort Lee, New Jersey.
how wrong u are

Jamesville, NY

#81 Feb 1, 2014
u r a tool wrote:
<quoted text>
More than 700,000 American workers would be lifted out of poverty
More than 1 million retail workers and their family members live in or close to poverty. By raising the minimum wage of full-time workers to the equivalent of $12.25 per hour, 734,075 people would be lifted out of poverty and an additional 769,191 people living near the poverty line would see their incomes rise to more than 150 percent above the poverty line. I
GDP would rise by as much as $15.2 billion
A wage increase to $12.25 an hour would impact more than 5 million workers and their families. As these families have access to more money, they will spend more, translating to as much as $15.2 billion in new economic activity, according to Demos.
132,000 new jobs could be created
If the increase in economic activity reached $15.2 billion, retailers would need 132,000 new employees.
The wage increase would actually only cost retailers about 1 percent of total sales
Large retailers would need to absorb the higher labor cost for the 3.5 million workers earning less than $12.25 per hour. But according to Demos, most of this increase in costs would be returned to the firm in the form of productivity gains and increased revenues, amounting to only 1 percent of their total yearly sales.
It would generate as much as $5 billion in additional retail revenue
In fact, assuming that low-income families spend rather than save the money from the wage increase, retailers could expect at least 20 cents in new revenue for every additional payroll dollar. That would have added up to as much as $5 billion in 2012.
The average shopper would pay just 15 cents more per shopping trip at most
Even if the nation's largest retailers decided to pass off the cost of a $12.25 minimum wage increase entirely to customers, Demos found that an average household would spend just 7 to 15 cents more per shopping trip.
I own a small business which employs highschool students. They work 3 to 4hr a day and are PD minimum wage. They are not worth anything more. I am constantly telling them over and over again what to do and when I leave for even one hour I come back to a mess. Don't tell me to hire someone else because they are all the same. When I hire an adult then I have to deal with their families coming in thinking they can get things for free. Now I am told I have to give the m all a raise. So now I have to cut there hrs. To make up the difference. This is exactly what is going to happen all over you aren't helping anything. Your just putting sm businesses out of business. Go after the large companies. Not us. I work 16 hrs a day now. I can't continue at this pace and our government is making it worse.
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#82 Feb 1, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
These aren't Tea Party arguments. They are common sense business opinions. No mention of off-shoring jobs? There is plenty of mention. You just don't seem to like or agree with how and why it happened.
Just so you can know what you are saying here's a link to the Tea Party 'About Us' page. I'm not a member but I agree with a lot of what they stand for.
http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/
And here's what their core beliefs are:
1. Illegal aliens are here illegally.
2. Pro-domestic employment is indispensable.
3. A strong military is essential.
4. Special interests must be eliminated.
5. Gun ownership is sacred.
6. Government must be downsized.
7. The national budget must be balanced.
8. Deficit spending must end.
9. Bailout and stimulus plans are illegal.
10. Reducing personal income taxes is a must.
11. Reducing business income taxes is mandatory.
12. Political offices must be available to average citizens.
13. Intrusive government must be stopped.
14. English as our core language is required.
15. Traditional family values are encouraged.
Is there anything here that would lead one to believe that they are either for or against a higher minimum wage?
Benghazi is about Americans being killed in a foreign land and the our government lying repeatedly about the who, what and why of the incident. The reality is that the right is blaming Hillary Clinton(presumed 2016 presidential candidate) so she looks bad. This is very much like the left's current campaign to make Gov Chris Christie(presumed 2016 presidential candidate) look bad for some lane closures. Neither is right but if I look at things in orders of magnitude I have to say that Americans being killed because they didn't get the help they asked for is much more serious than inconveniencing some people crossing a bridge to Fort Lee, New Jersey.
Republicans stand for raw unbridled evil and greedand ignorance, smothered in balloons and ribbons. F.Z.
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#83 Feb 1, 2014
how wrong u are wrote:
<quoted text> I own a small business which employs highschool students. They work 3 to 4hr a day and are PD minimum wage. They are not worth anything more. I am constantly telling them over and over again what to do and when I leave for even one hour I come back to a mess. Don't tell me to hire someone else because they are all the same. When I hire an adult then I have to deal with their families coming in thinking they can get things for free. Now I am told I have to give the m all a raise. So now I have to cut there hrs. To make up the difference. This is exactly what is going to happen all over you aren't helping anything. Your just putting sm businesses out of business. Go after the large companies. Not us. I work 16 hrs a day now. I can't continue at this pace and our government is making it worse.
You are the most unimaginative , pathetic whiner,of a businessman ever. If the Minimum wage can get rid of you ,and your cheap skate ilk, it will be blessing.
tools r fools

Chittenango, NY

#84 Feb 1, 2014
bottom line (no pun intended) is that we are one heluva polarized nation. "united" states? LOL there are states where i wouldn't set foot as their ways sicken me. we're not going to agree. to the winners of the coming elections will go the spoils. their agenda will move forward, the loser's will not. so it might be wise to objectively look at voter demographics and the plight of the the masses. it's gonna take alot of gerrymandering and outright voter suppression to alter the direction we're going which i support and some here do not. it's remarkable and amusing to me how the right wingers and t-baggers either don't seem to mind full time workers collecting welfare benefits ("social services") or don't have the ballz to say they want to take them away. which is it baggers?
so one more time with feeling:
WE'RE PAYING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. DECIDE!
tools r fools

Chittenango, NY

#85 Feb 1, 2014
how wrong u are wrote:
<quoted text> I own a small business which employs highschool students. They work 3 to 4hr a day and are PD minimum wage. They are not worth anything more. I am constantly telling them over and over again what to do and when I leave for even one hour I come back to a mess. Don't tell me to hire someone else because they are all the same. When I hire an adult then I have to deal with their families coming in thinking they can get things for free. Now I am told I have to give the m all a raise. So now I have to cut there hrs. To make up the difference. This is exactly what is going to happen all over you aren't helping anything. Your just putting sm businesses out of business. Go after the large companies. Not us. I work 16 hrs a day now. I can't continue at this pace and our government is making it worse.
i have to call BS on this one. kind of sad really.
Obviously

Herkimer, NY

#86 Feb 2, 2014
Truth, you have made a valiant attempt to explain simple economic principle. Some of us are with you. But as you can see, this is basically a union cronie blog. Maybe we should start talking about dues and how those increase. Maybe we should talk about how those increased dues have done zilch to prevent the movement of jobs overseas. Why don't we talk about how union bosses don't care, because they negotiate from the top step of the pay scale downward, so they are set for life while the newer people take the scraps. I am in a job where I am forced pay dues,but since I am a newbie, I get the crap end of the deal. I will never take a union job again and am trying to undo my mistake now by lookng elsewhere. I have many friends who have experienced the same. You just don't hear about it because the loud mouthed bosses are the ones who make the press, and because unions actively bully anyone who speaks out. Obamacare is likely going to result in my employer bailing on health insurance, so that need to bargain will be gone. Min wage will bring the wages of new people closer and closer to mine, plus I'm not "senior" enough in the food chain for anyone to care. So that need to bargain is gone, or not effective for people like me anyway. And most working conditions are protected by federal and state law, so who really needs a union for that in is day and age? All the while, work from my company is starting to be shipped out slowly, and union dues go up. Wake up people. This isn't 1952.

Sorry if this is too far off to min wage topic but I'm reading all of this and it's pissing me off. All of the crap we are talking about stems from unions spinning out of control with power in my opinion.
Sad

United States

#87 Feb 2, 2014
tools r fools wrote:
bottom line (no pun intended) is that we are one heluva polarized nation. "united" states? LOL there are states where i wouldn't set foot as their ways sicken me. we're not going to agree. to the winners of the coming elections will go the spoils. their agenda will move forward, the loser's will not. so it might be wise to objectively look at voter demographics and the plight of the the masses. it's gonna take alot of gerrymandering and outright voter suppression to alter the direction we're going which i support and some here do not. it's remarkable and amusing to me how the right wingers and t-baggers either don't seem to mind full time workers collecting welfare benefits ("social services") or don't have the ballz to say they want to take them away. which is it baggers?
so one more time with feeling:
WE'RE PAYING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. DECIDE!
It is sad when a portion of the people in this country have been brainwashed by their political beliefs so much to say they will not set foot in one of the states of our Union. I have been to most of the states in this country and must say they are all beautiful and have beautiful people. Now there are states I might not live in because of the taxes they charge (New York for one) though to say I would not set foot in a state is sad... You are correct. This country has really becoming divided...

I am starting to see why those on the political right may actually be RIGHT...
tools r fools

Chittenango, NY

#88 Feb 2, 2014
Sad wrote:
<quoted text>
It is sad when a portion of the people in this country have been brainwashed by their political beliefs so much to say they will not set foot in one of the states of our Union. I have been to most of the states in this country and must say they are all beautiful and have beautiful people. Now there are states I might not live in because of the taxes they charge (New York for one) though to say I would not set foot in a state is sad... You are correct. This country has really becoming divided...
I am starting to see why those on the political right may actually be RIGHT...
what the, who the??? so a portion of the people have brainwashed themselves? that's quite a feat. LOL ...but contrary to the right wing extremist blabber our freedom is still intact. i'm free to never set foot in states where i believe the majority embraces hatred, inequality, racism, and greed and you're free to vacation there. of course there are all kinds of folks in every state but i see that some states just reek of long held ignorance and prejudice fueled by generations of lies, distortions and fear mongering so i dismiss them for what they are.

...and i've still yet to read/hear a single reply to the fact that WE'RE ALL PAYING THE WELFARE BENEFITS OF FULL TIME WORKERS!...how one way or another WE ALL PAY and how this is so much better for our own "bottom line". what's your plan? eliminate welfare altogether? put them in the streets? or as the t-baggers shouted out loud for all to hear during the last presidential primary debates: "LET 'EM DIE"! i couldn't agree more witH gov cuomo. it you're a right wing extremist don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out!
Clueless Liberals

United States

#89 Feb 2, 2014
tools r fools wrote:
<quoted text>
what the, who the??? so a portion of the people have brainwashed themselves? that's quite a feat. LOL ...but contrary to the right wing extremist blabber our freedom is still intact. i'm free to never set foot in states where i believe the majority embraces hatred, inequality, racism, and greed and you're free to vacation there. of course there are all kinds of folks in every state but i see that some states just reek of long held ignorance and prejudice fueled by generations of lies, distortions and fear mongering so i dismiss them for what they are.
...and i've still yet to read/hear a single reply to the fact that WE'RE ALL PAYING THE WELFARE BENEFITS OF FULL TIME WORKERS!...how one way or another WE ALL PAY and how this is so much better for our own "bottom line". what's your plan? eliminate welfare altogether? put them in the streets? or as the t-baggers shouted out loud for all to hear during the last presidential primary debates: "LET 'EM DIE"! i couldn't agree more witH gov cuomo. it you're a right wing extremist don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out!
Either way we all pay... If we pay by giving them welfare or by increasing their minimum wage we all pay in the end. However, if we raise minimum wage our buying power will be diminished through the inflation it will cause. Everyone's retirement savings will have less buying power and people will need to work longer. Also, jobs need to be available for all of the people who will need to work longer. However, an increase in minimum wage will result in more automation reducing jobs, more jobs being sent offshore, or companies requiring more out of the employees they have. Liberals are somewhat na´ve of the effects of there demands. People need to be given opportunities and training to better themselves so they can get off of minimum wage, not be given handouts. Continued handouts as you request do not solve the problem. Raising their wage to $15/hour may give them a living wage today but in the long run these people will be no better off....
tools r fools

Chittenango, NY

#90 Feb 2, 2014
Clueless Liberals wrote:
<quoted text>
Either way we all pay... If we pay by giving them welfare or by increasing their minimum wage we all pay in the end. However, if we raise minimum wage our buying power will be diminished through the inflation it will cause. Everyone's retirement savings will have less buying power and people will need to work longer. Also, jobs need to be available for all of the people who will need to work longer. However, an increase in minimum wage will result in more automation reducing jobs, more jobs being sent offshore, or companies requiring more out of the employees they have. Liberals are somewhat na´ve of the effects of there demands. People need to be given opportunities and training to better themselves so they can get off of minimum wage, not be given handouts. Continued handouts as you request do not solve the problem. Raising their wage to $15/hour may give them a living wage today but in the long run these people will be no better off....
well at least you made an attempt. you agree we all pay in the end. good for you. then you repeat the same right wing talking points that at the very least are highly arguable. i don't agree with your predictions. i much prefer getting full time workers off the welfare rolls but support a "living" wage as the minimum. not welfare, not free stuff, not even free healthcare, but enough to sustain minimum food, shelter, and well being. i've supplied alternatives or respected opposing views to every point you make in earlier posts. you don't agree. fine but you brought nothing new to the table.
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#91 Feb 2, 2014
tools r fools wrote:
<quoted text>well at least you made an attempt. you agree we all pay in the end. good for you. then you repeat the same right wing talking points that at the very least are highly arguable. i don't agree with your predictions. i much prefer getting full time workers off the welfare rolls but support a "living" wage as the minimum. not welfare, not free stuff, not even free healthcare, but enough to sustain minimum food, shelter, and well being. i've supplied alternatives or respected opposing views to every point you make in earlier posts. you don't agree. fine but you brought nothing new to the table.
Of course you are correct. I am old enough to have lived through this minimum wage debate numerous times. Historically, raising the minimum wage is economically neutral.. We must give people a reason to go to work. If not, why not just stay on welfare. Then you have medical access , food and shelter. At seven dollars an hour , one would have to choose between shelter and heat. These right wing stooges can only repeat what some psychotic shock jock on the A.M. radio tells them. Or Fox News. Which has been accurately described as "The super rich paying the rich to convince the ignorant to blame the poor for everything."

Since the collapse of 2008, the right wing has kept the dialogue on blaming the poor, migrant workers, teachers, single moms, etc. As if some poor guy picking apples for a living has brought down the world economy. The lack of comments about bankers, hedge fund managers, lobbyists, is chilling.
Truth

Utica, NY

#92 Feb 3, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text> Republicans stand for raw unbridled evil and greedand ignorance, smothered in balloons and ribbons. F.Z.
I guess when you can't defend your opinion with evidence you fall back to the same old tired left wing rhetoric.
Truth

Utica, NY

#93 Feb 3, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text> Of course you are correct. I am old enough to have lived through this minimum wage debate numerous times. Historically, raising the minimum wage is economically neutral.. We must give people a reason to go to work. If not, why not just stay on welfare. Then you have medical access , food and shelter. At seven dollars an hour , one would have to choose between shelter and heat. These right wing stooges can only repeat what some psychotic shock jock on the A.M. radio tells them. Or Fox News. Which has been accurately described as "The super rich paying the rich to convince the ignorant to blame the poor for everything."
Since the collapse of 2008, the right wing has kept the dialogue on blaming the poor, migrant workers, teachers, single moms, etc. As if some poor guy picking apples for a living has brought down the world economy. The lack of comments about bankers, hedge fund managers, lobbyists, is chilling.
There is plenty of blame to go around and there has been plenty of finger pointing on both sides. Here we are though. How do we climb out of the hole? Do we raise the cost of doing business and decrease everyone's buying power by raising the minimum wage for less that 2% of the working population? Does that seem prudent? I'm sure you'll say that the raise will put more money into the economy because those people will spend that money. You neglect to admit that it will also cost jobs and the people who lose those jobs will have less money to spend and be more dependent on big government.

You state emphatically:
"Historically, raising the minimum wage is economically neutral." as though it is a universally held truth. It's not. Please have a look at this, just one of many examples of a contrary view. Dr. Walter Williams holds a doctorate in economics and is a professor at George Mason University.
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliam...

Any number of time you've accused me and people who think as I do of being non-thinking Fox News drones while at the same time repeating the MSNBC talking points ad-nauseum. You do realize that you are doing that don't you?

You ask about the bankers, hedge fund managers and lobbyists. What about the unions that demand compensation based on nothing more than greed? What about their lobbyists who own the left wing of the Democrat Party? A 30 second commercial on yesterday's Super Bowl cost $4.5 million. Chevrolet(GM) was a big sponsor. The taxpayers of the United States recently divested themselves of the last of their GM stock. They(we) took a $10.5 billion loss. That bailout was an orchestrated union payback pure and simple. What about things like that? Like I said, there is plenty of blame to go around and if you can't see that you must be very na´ve.
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#94 Feb 3, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess when you can't defend your opinion with evidence you fall back to the same old tired left wing rhetoric.
You're doing your best to make right wingers look reasonable. But, even the Republican leadership is trying to get you idiots to stop all the hating. BTW, you said you don't like Glenn Beck. That's great. It puts you in the triple digit IQ range. How about the most powerful conservative leader. Rush Limbaugh? Do you like his take on things?
Truth

Utica, NY

#95 Feb 3, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text> You're doing your best to make right wingers look reasonable. But, even the Republican leadership is trying to get you idiots to stop all the hating. BTW, you said you don't like Glenn Beck. That's great. It puts you in the triple digit IQ range. How about the most powerful conservative leader. Rush Limbaugh? Do you like his take on things?
I don't like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Not fond of Ann Coulter either.

As for Glenn Beck I don't like his emotional delivery style. I know that's his shtick and he's made millions off it but I think if you have the facts on your side you don't have to resort to that kind of thing. Maybe he's just an emotional guy. Whatever. I just don't like it and don't think it does anything to help us come to an agreement on anything.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity to me are two sides of the same coin. Both are shrill and combative(just like the MSNBC primetime lineup). Both make jokes using name calling and other techniques I don't agree with or like. As with Glen Beck, I think if you have the facts on your side you don't have to lower yourself to that level. Here's an example. The last time I Iistened to Rush(it was quite a while ago) a caller talked about how the stock market had tanked since President Obama took over. It was an obviously wrong statement but rather than correcting the caller Rush sort of chimed in in agreement. Facts are important.

I don't think Rush Limbaugh is the most powerful conservative leader. I think that thinking people recognize what he's doing for what it is. He's a showman throwing red meat to an audience that loves him. Again, just like Ed Shultz, Rachel Maddow, Reverend Sharpton and the rest.
Nope

Philadelphia, PA

#96 Feb 3, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess when you can't defend your opinion with evidence you fall back to the same old tired left wing rhetoric.
Truth.
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#97 Feb 3, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
There is plenty of blame to go around and there has been plenty of finger pointing on both sides. Here we are though. How do we climb out of the hole? Do we raise the cost of doing business and decrease everyone's buying power by raising the minimum wage for less that 2% of the working population? Does that seem prudent? I'm sure you'll say that the raise will put more money into the economy because those people will spend that money. You neglect to admit that it will also cost jobs and the people who lose those jobs will have less money to spend and be more dependent on big government.
You state emphatically:
"Historically, raising the minimum wage is economically neutral." as though it is a universally held truth. It's not. Please have a look at this, just one of many examples of a contrary view. Dr. Walter Williams holds a doctorate in economics and is a professor at George Mason University.
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliam...
Any number of time you've accused me and people who think as I do of being non-thinking Fox News drones while at the same time repeating the MSNBC talking points ad-nauseum. You do realize that you are doing that don't you?
You ask about the bankers, hedge fund managers and lobbyists. What about the unions that demand compensation based on nothing more than greed? What about their lobbyists who own the left wing of the Democrat Party? A 30 second commercial on yesterday's Super Bowl cost $4.5 million. Chevrolet(GM) was a big sponsor. The taxpayers of the United States recently divested themselves of the last of their GM stock. They(we) took a $10.5 billion loss. That bailout was an orchestrated union payback pure and simple. What about things like that? Like I said, there is plenty of blame to go around and if you can't see that you must be very na´ve.
I have always stated that there is plenty of blame to go around. I think Bill Clinton did just as much, if not more, that any of the Republicans to sell the American middle class down the river. Obama gave the same bank presidents that were responsible for tanking the world economy, hundreds of billions of dollars, with no strings attached. They should have been thrown in jail. Like they did in Iceland. Now here's why I think you are an imbecile. And a right wing hack. All you do is focus on the poorest of the poor, and unions. Of course the unions became greedy and are partly to blame. But, you make no mention of the uber rich, who have bought off Washington, and made untold billions by ruining America. You mindlessly repeat Libertarian talking points. Never mentioning that it was deregulation and banking malfeasance that caused this recession. You are either very rich or, what's more likely, a trust fund baby, slopping at the family trough. And your constant repeating of the mission statement of the Tea Party is absurd. I could list the mission statement of the K.K.K. or the Communist Party, and it would sound equally as benign, I can't figure out if your a shill for the banking industry or just stupid. I'll go with the latter. You are just as insulting as anyone else on here. You just do it in a sneaky, girlish way. So stop whining.
, you Libertarian stooge. I don't like you. You are way too phony. You pretend to be an honest intellectual, while incessantly regurgitating right wing dogma. Now I will watch my alma matter, Syracuse, stomp on Notre Dame. You're starting to bore the sh#t out of me.

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NBC Sports 3:10AM
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ESPN11:45 AM
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