Minimum Wage Increase?
ur no tool

Syracuse, NY

#24 Jan 28, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text> My background is almost exactly the same as yours. I also have an honorable discharge from The Marine Corp. I served in Viet Nam in 68/69.
I didn't fight in Viet Nam to support the greedy 1%,while they destroy the American middle class. It looks like socialism for the super rich and a brutal form of Capitalism for everyone else.
I would rather this country went broke feeding the hungry and healing the sick than making a handful of insanely greedy nut jobs become billionaires.
i missed the draft lottery by 1 year.(thankfully) but you have my utmost respect in that regard. my older bro was a marine then but luckily served stateside. prior to his assignment, while he was at PI my family attended 2 military funerals both were my bro's hunting buddies, both USMC. my mom was a basket case. your last sentence says it all: "I would rather this country went broke feeding the hungry and healing the sick than making a handful of insanely greedy nut jobs become billionaires". me too and i'm very proud that my sons share that sentiment.
Truth

Utica, NY

#25 Jan 28, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text>Mr. Truth is living in a world of right wing dogma.
I was living in Manhattan in the eighties. It was difficult to maneuver down the street without stepping on homeless people.. When Regan was asked about the homeless problem, he stated there was no homeless people in America. There was more than 90,000 in New York alone. He later back pedaled on that , stating that these folks sleeping on the sidewalks in February were just free spirits, and were there by choice. When asked about his personal philosophy, Regan stated , he was a Social Darwinist. This is a philosophy that advocates, among other things, grinding the poor out of existence. Between Regan and Bush 1, the minimum wage was kept at around 3.50/Hr. The homelessness and crime was becoming unbearable. When Clinton advocated raising it , there was the same outcry from the right wing as now,(nothings new). They said it would ruin the economy, raise inflation, blah, blah, etc,
It did one of the above. In fact, historically, the only result of raising the minimum wage has been to make life more tolerable for the workers. And yes, reducing crime and poverty.
Mr.Truth, I have some reading for you. Try Thom Hartman,( a progressive radio host, that I didn't know existed until recently. His newest book The Crash of 2016 gives a different view of American History and economics. You can google his lecture on the book on PBS/Frontline. Try leaving your comfort zone. Ilisten to rightwing blowhards all the time. They are facists. I will explain later. I am curious to see if you have any intellectual honesty. Have a good day.
Sorry to disappoint you but I know exactly who Thom Hartmann is and have listened to him speak both on internet radio and television a number of times. I'm also aware of the book. I've only read the synopsis on Amazon and from that I think his view of what got us to where we are is definitely biased by his liberal views. That leads me to doubt his conclusions(theories). It might surprise you but I do actually agree with some of what he says about other things though. I prefer his approach to debate over the shrill, abrasive name calling of Ed Shultz and Rachel Maddow. The reason I listen to Thom Hartmann and others is that I like to get both sides of any debate before coming to my own conclusion about who is right.
This is not the 80's. This is not 1996. This is 2014 and we are emerging form the most serious economic downturn since the Great Depression. Different times, different circumstances, whole different ballgame.
Let's get back to the discussion at hand. Minimum wage.
How about a compromise?
One of the problems I have with advocates for increasing the minimum wage is that they use the federal poverty line for a family of four. I just don't think that anyone should reasonably expect to support a family of four on a minimum skill, minimum wage job. How about we use the federal poverty rate for a family of two. I'm not suggesting we use a single rate even though I think that's the appropriate rate to use if we are going to have a minimum wage. The current poverty line for a couple is $15,510/year*. The accepted definition of a man year(used in budgeting) in business is 2080 hours(52 weeks x 40 hours). Let's divide. It comes out to $7.46 per hour. The current federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. How about if we bump that by the additional 21 cents per hour and then from now on increase that annually indexed for inflation. How's that for compromise? My guess is that you won't go for it.
Truth

Utica, NY

#26 Jan 28, 2014
truth the tool lies wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try swamee. I'm 100% self employed, owned my business since '83, and employ 3. Never taken a dime of assistance. raised 2. 1 who holds juris doctorate and the other MM. both extremely successful and respected in their chosen fields. my employees are talented craftsmen whom i would never insult by paying them the minimum. so evidently your right wing t-bagger intellect is lacking. not surprising. your views are consistent with your assumptions. misinformed, idiotic, drivel.
You run a business? Hard to believe. Even harder to believe that with your beliefs you are successful. Why do you run a business? Is it to create jobs? Is it to pay a wage above the skillset and experience of your employees? Or, at the end of the day do you do it so that you can earn a profit and therefore a better life for you and your family? Either way it doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that you believe you have the right to force your socialist views on all of American business. That's just wrong.

Your children are not you. I congratulate them on their success and thank you for your service to our country.

If you are a business owner then you are smart to take care of your employees who in turn may take care of you. That's a choice you made for those you termed "talented craftsmen". That does not give you the right to force other business people to pay their less skilled, less educated, less experienced employees an artificially high wage based on a government index.

Again with the name calling. Does that make you feel better? Does it make you feel superior? To me it signals a weak intellect and opinions based more on emotion than logic and fact.
dookie

New London, CT

#27 Jan 28, 2014
minimum wage isn't the problem.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hed...
ur no tool

Syracuse, NY

#28 Jan 28, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You run a business? Hard to believe. Even harder to believe that with your beliefs you are successful. Why do you run a business? Is it to create jobs? Is it to pay a wage above the skillset and experience of your employees? Or, at the end of the day do you do it so that you can earn a profit and therefore a better life for you and your family? Either way it doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that you believe you have the right to force your socialist views on all of American business. That's just wrong.
Your children are not you. I congratulate them on their success and thank you for your service to our country.
If you are a business owner then you are smart to take care of your employees who in turn may take care of you. That's a choice you made for those you termed "talented craftsmen". That does not give you the right to force other business people to pay their less skilled, less educated, less experienced employees an artificially high wage based on a government index.
Again with the name calling. Does that make you feel better? Does it make you feel superior? To me it signals a weak intellect and opinions based more on emotion than logic and fact.
So then you believe that ANY mandated minimum wage equals forced socialism? Great. Or is there a number? At what hourly wage does it become socialist? What you find "hard to believe " amuses me. I'm not an island unto myself nor is my business. My business was born from my vision and I am the final word on all issues but i know that my success depends those I hire as well. To me minimum wage says "I'd pay you even less if I could" and considering what it buys these days I'll not insult those who work for me. I don't want somebody that works for me collecting welfare. I'm not WalMart! My business which as hard as it is for you to believe is more than a bottom line. Of course the ledger has to show reasonable numbers but I can live with a little less so those who got me here may not have to receive food stamps. That's my foolish pride. I know, it's "hard for you to believe".
Raise Minimum Wage

United States

#29 Jan 28, 2014
I say raise minimum wage as it will create more jobs for the skilled such as engineers. We will be developing and selling more equipment to automate processes currently run by the unskilled. Stores will have more registers without cashiers, McDonalds and other fast food places will increase automation, and the list goes on. Minimum skill jobs will continue to decrease as minimum wage increases. Thank you Mr. Obama!! I can see how this policy will increase my bottom line..
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#30 Jan 28, 2014
ur no tool wrote:
<quoted text>So then you believe that ANY mandated minimum wage equals forced socialism? Great. Or is there a number? At what hourly wage does it become socialist? What you find "hard to believe " amuses me. I'm not an island unto myself nor is my business. My business was born from my vision and I am the final word on all issues but i know that my success depends those I hire as well. To me minimum wage says "I'd pay you even less if I could" and considering what it buys these days I'll not insult those who work for me. I don't want somebody that works for me collecting welfare. I'm not WalMart! My business which as hard as it is for you to believe is more than a bottom line. Of course the ledger has to show reasonable numbers but I can live with a little less so those who got me here may not have to receive food stamps. That's my foolish pride. I know, it's "hard for you to believe".
A banker, a union guy, and a private sector worker sat down with a dozen donuts. The banker quickly gobbled up eleven donuts, turned to the worker and said, "you better watch out for that union guy, he's after your donut."
True

United States

#31 Jan 28, 2014
Raise Minimum Wage wrote:
I say raise minimum wage as it will create more jobs for the skilled such as engineers. We will be developing and selling more equipment to automate processes currently run by the unskilled. Stores will have more registers without cashiers, McDonalds and other fast food places will increase automation, and the list goes on. Minimum skill jobs will continue to decrease as minimum wage increases. Thank you Mr. Obama!! I can see how this policy will increase my bottom line..
This is true.... Here is a article discussing this...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesdorn/2013/05...

"Employers have more flexibility in the long run and will find ways to economize on the higher-priced labor. New technology will be introduced along with labor-saving capital investment, and skilled workers will tend to replace unskilled workers. Those substitutions will occur even before an increase in the minimum wage, if employers believe such an increase is imminent. There will be fewer jobs for low-skilled workers and higher unemployment rates—especially for minorities—and participation rates will fall as workers affected by the minimum wage drop out of the formal labor market."
Truth

Utica, NY

#32 Jan 29, 2014
Amitaba wrote:
<quoted text>A banker, a union guy, and a private sector worker sat down with a dozen donuts. The banker quickly gobbled up eleven donuts, turned to the worker and said, "you better watch out for that union guy, he's after your donut."
There's a little more to it than that though.
Let's try this. Rather than banker let's use baker. In your scenario using baker is more realistic. The banker is the one who gives the baker the loan to finance the bakery. It is the baker above all others who is actually responsible for the production of the donuts.

A baker, a union guy and a private sector worker sat down with a dozen donuts. That dozen donuts was made in a shop opened by the baker, using machines bought(financed) by the baker, in a location researched by the baker, in compliance with all government regulations and made by the union guy who previously agreed to a particular amount of compensation to do the manual labor required in producing the donuts. When the donuts arrived at the table the baker took what his strategic planning and budgeting said he was entitled to after all of his costs were taken care of. Seeing that the baker was making a profit, the union worker immediately decided he was entitled to more compensation than he originally agreed to, threatened to strike and started an anti-baker publicity campaign to convince the private sector worker that the baker is greedy and evil.

That's a lot more in line with reality.
Common Cents

Utica, NY

#33 Jan 29, 2014
How many MILLIONS more people will be working for minimum wage after the minimum wage is lifted?

All those earning $9 and $10 hour now will now be in the category of "Minimum Wage Earners".

We are creating a larger pool of people earning a "Minimum Wage".

NO WAY this will not create inflation. If we create inflation, did we really do anything to help minimum wage earners??? NO!!!

Political and Social rhetoric.....all designed to appeal to the minorities who vote and don't have a work ethic or the intelligence to get themselves out of the minimum wage category.

INFLATION HERE WE COME!
Truth

Utica, NY

#34 Jan 29, 2014
ur no tool wrote:
<quoted text>So then you believe that ANY mandated minimum wage equals forced socialism? Great. Or is there a number? At what hourly wage does it become socialist? What you find "hard to believe " amuses me. I'm not an island unto myself nor is my business. My business was born from my vision and I am the final word on all issues but i know that my success depends those I hire as well. To me minimum wage says "I'd pay you even less if I could" and considering what it buys these days I'll not insult those who work for me. I don't want somebody that works for me collecting welfare. I'm not WalMart! My business which as hard as it is for you to believe is more than a bottom line. Of course the ledger has to show reasonable numbers but I can live with a little less so those who got me here may not have to receive food stamps. That's my foolish pride. I know, it's "hard for you to believe".
What you do with your business is your business. I'm not going to judge what you do with your business. It is none of my business unless your business interferes with my business. What you are trying to do is force all businesses to comply with rules that push your agenda and view of how you think things ought to be. If I believe what you are saying about your business then your hired labor has a skillset and experience that warrants the higher compensation you provide. It warrants higher compensation because the pool of applicants qualified to do that work is smaller than say the pool of qualified applicants for a Walmart cart retriever. Not demeaning Walmart cart retrievers but the pool of people qualified to do that job is very large by comparison so to my mind the compensation should be less. It's supply and demand. You as a businessman realize that if you don't pay a wage commensurate with the job, you will either not attract qualified applicants and/or you won't retain the ones you have. When you calculate how much you pay your help do you do that based on how much you can afford to pay and still stay in business or do you base it on what standard of living you think the employee is entitled to? If you pay $20 an hour then why not $30 or $40 or $100?

Business exist to make money for their owners. They do not exist to create jobs. They do not exist to pay taxes. They do not exist to provide a particular standard of living for workers. They do not exist to be an ATM machine for financing a social agenda. They exist to make money for their owners and there is nothing wrong with that. If they don't then why bother being in business?

The amount of compensation any job is truly worth is the least amount that the most qualified applicant is willing to take to do that job. It should not be an inflated rate based on a government index. If I offer too little I won't get qualified applicants and I will have to raise my offer. Supply and demand. Given the mountains of applications and resumes that most employers have on file today I know I'm right about this.
Truth

Utica, NY

#37 Jan 29, 2014
Nono Technology wrote:
The higher the minimum wage goes the cost of goods will just rise appropriately. Who does that hurt ultimately? The ever shrinking middle class.
Worse than that it hurts those who are truly in need and unable to work. They are the ones least likely to be able to absorb the increases. Those are the people who really need the help much more than the 2% of the working population currently making the federal minimum wage.
Truth

Utica, NY

#39 Jan 29, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>

A baker, a union guy and a private sector worker sat down with a dozen donuts. That dozen donuts was made in a shop opened by the baker, using machines bought(financed) by the baker, in a location researched by the baker, in compliance with all government regulations and made by the union guy who previously agreed to a particular amount of compensation to do the manual labor required in producing the donuts. When the donuts arrived at the table the baker took what his strategic planning and budgeting said he was entitled to after all of his costs were taken care of. Seeing that the baker was making a profit, the union worker immediately decided he was entitled to more compensation than he originally agreed to, threatened to strike and started an anti-baker publicity campaign to convince the private sector worker that the baker is greedy and evil.
That's a lot more in line with reality.
How can someone put clueless and disagree icons up for this comment?

It's funny that the original comment had to do with donuts. Think Hostess and what happened to them in late 2012.
retire the tool

Syracuse, NY

#41 Jan 29, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
What you do with your business is your business. I'm not going to judge what you do with your business. It is none of my business unless your business interferes with my business....
They do not exist to provide a particular standard of living for workers...
I know I'm right about this...
Gee thanks godfather. LOL
Mine most certainly exists in part to provide at least a minimum "living wage" for those whom I employ.
Well then there's nothing to debate oh learned one!
... but I'm with the pres. "Give America a raise"!
Truth

Utica, NY

#43 Jan 29, 2014
retire the tool wrote:
<quoted text>
Gee thanks godfather. LOL
Mine most certainly exists in part to provide at least a minimum "living wage" for those whom I employ.
Well then there's nothing to debate oh learned one!
... but I'm with the pres. "Give America a raise"!
What does the name calling do for you? Do you think it's funny? Do you think I'm offended? I honestly could care less what you think of me. I'm trying to understand how someone can think the way you do. I think I've tried to be cordial here even though I think in a way that is probably 180 degrees from the way you do.

Your business only exists in part to provide at least a minimum "living wage" for those you employ because people will pay what you ask for the goods/services you provide. That allows you to pass along the amount you want to pay to your employees. Isn't that true?

What happens when there is a forced rise in your costs, you try to pass that along and people are no longer willing to pay the price you want to charge for your goods/services? I'm guessing that if you are so concerned with the welfare and living standard of your employees that you offer them healthcare right? What happens when those costs increase year after year. Do you share the pain of that as well?

I saw the highlights of the SOTU this morning. I threw up in my mouth a little.
It's easy to say "Give America a raise".
It's easy to say a lot of things when you're spending other people's money.

I say give all working Americans a raise. Reform the tax system. Lower the taxes on all working Americans and on business. Let them decide how to spend their money(or not). Stop spending so much on social engineering and big government. Start taxing the 50% of Americans that pay no federal income tax at all.

Shouldn't everyone have some skin in the game? Seems fair and equitable to me.
retire the tool

Syracuse, NY

#44 Jan 29, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm trying to understand how someone can think the way you do.
No you're not but that's ok. I expect nothing more. I'd agree we're one heluva divided country but one just needs to objectively observe the demographics to see the direction we're going. I'm ok with it. You're not. Whatever... and I understand fully "how someone can think the way you do" but still I reject it.
Amitaba

Utica, NY

#46 Jan 29, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
What does the name calling do for you? Do you think it's funny? Do you think I'm offended? I honestly could care less what you think of me. I'm trying to understand how someone can think the way you do. I think I've tried to be cordial here even though I think in a way that is probably 180 degrees from the way you do.
Your business only exists in part to provide at least a minimum "living wage" for those you employ because people will pay what you ask for the goods/services you provide. That allows you to pass along the amount you want to pay to your employees. Isn't that true?
What happens when there is a forced rise in your costs, you try to pass that along and people are no longer willing to pay the price you want to charge for your goods/services? I'm guessing that if you are so concerned with the welfare and living standard of your employees that you offer them healthcare right? What happens when those costs increase year after year. Do you share the pain of that as well?
I saw the highlights of the SOTU this morning. I threw up in my mouth a little.
It's easy to say "Give America a raise".
It's easy to say a lot of things when you're spending other people's money.
I say give all working Americans a raise. Reform the tax system. Lower the taxes on all working Americans and on business. Let them decide how to spend their money(or not). Stop spending so much on social engineering and big government. Start taxing the 50% of Americans that pay no federal income tax at all.
Shouldn't everyone have some skin in the game? Seems fair and equitable to me.
You insult this guy, Read your own posts) Then whine like a school girl about name calling. Like all right wing stooges, you have zero self awareness, zero, empathy, and boat loads of self righteousness. You latch unto every crack brained right wing theory that justifies your own greed and pompousness.You have no problem with the idea of millions of Americans being destitute , so long as the price of your Whopper stays the same.
Millions of Americans lost their jobs, through no fault of their own. Many of these folks worked for twenty years or more. And paid taxes. Now they need help .
That vomit in your mouth is your meanness and ignorance rising to the surface.
Yep

Clinton, NY

#47 Jan 29, 2014
The average person making the 7.25 federal minimum wage or less tend to be young, female, single and lacking a high school diploma.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/27/news/economy/...

"Lacking a High School Diploma". People need to apply themselves and get an education if they expect to be paid a living wage.
NY Voter

Charlotte, NC

#49 Jan 29, 2014
The Federal Minimum wage can be raised by individual States. A few States have pumped it up above $7.25 somewhat.

What the Liberal media fails to do is "put the shoe on the other foot".

Would you rather live in The United States and work fast food for $7.25 an hour or would you rather live in China and make Christmas decorations that get exported to the United States for $0.50 an hour?

The Liberal media fails to mention that shit. Liberal media just loves these TV rallies for "raise the minimum wage"!!!!

Who's going to pay $5 for a Big Mac? Because that's what it'll cost if the minimum wage is $15.00.
mlk

Earlville, NY

#50 Jan 30, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain to me how raising the minimum wage will help the economy and be an overall benefit for all Americans. A great place to start would be to explain where the money will come from to facilitate the increase.
Maybe,the owners/CEOs could have one less cocktail while vacationing in the islands.

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