Truth

Utica, NY

#263 Aug 20, 2014
Harvard Alum wrote:
I'm happy to see Teachers receiving huge pensions they deserve them!,If it wasn't for the teachers I had ,I wouldn't have received a great education that I needed to get accepted to Harvard?
Do you believe you would have gotten a lesser education if the same people who taught you had to contribute to fund their own retirement accounts rather than having the taxpayers fund most of it? If so you have a pretty low opinion of the work ethic of teachers.
A low life teacher

Utica, NY

#264 Aug 20, 2014
How can I explain a decline....many facets... One big one is that we were number 1 in math etc...But it wasn't good for politicians..so people changed what was working so they could get their name on something. The high ranking country's teach math like we used to. Look it up! Why in good sense would you change what is making you number 1? Politics. I know its dangerous to make assumptions, but I would bet that is what has happened to many other subjects...was working but lets put something "innovative" so that we can get our name on something.

Another reason for the decline is this bs that everyone is the same, no child left behind, every one should attain the same thing. BULL! I might not be spelling his name correctly but its Gardners Multiple intelligences. We are not the same, so don't put us in the same bubble. Once we started putting everyone in the same bubble we got mediocrity. You might concentrate on some of the highest level, the "middle level students" who could attain more get lost, and we focus so much on the low level. What ends up happening is the bar is set at the low level, and thats where students end up. If the bar is set low, majority will only reach the low level. These state tests...regents etc... are bull. You may put some more difficult level questions on them..but then you put such a curve people with a raw score of 33% end up passing! What The???????? Would you want someone working on your car, or someone giving you heart surgery to pass with 33%? Clearly not! Why such a big curve...so it makes people look better!!! People, teachers, schools, Governments etc.. need to start focusing on peoples strenghts...so we can have people with very strong skills (thats how it used to be)...instead of focusing on everyone "achieving" in everything and having low level skills. Thats one of the big problems. Do I agree everyone deserves the right to an education YESSSS! But does everyone truly have the ability to get it (at all levels)...NO!!!! Lifes not fair, I will never be a Basketball star. Should the expectation be lowered so that I can play in the NBA...clearly not.

We are missing the boat, because we are focusing on the wrong things instead of our strengths..

Plus I don't think anyone can disagree that the moral and ethical fabric of the USA has been in decline. Whats in the media is a disgrace. We have naked dating on T.V. People are glorified for being thugs. The more tatoos you have, the cooler, anything goes....

I believe we as a society are focusing on the wrong things. What about working hard, getting what you earned, being proud of what you earned yourself. What about focusing on mothers and fathers that are truly involved and supporting their childrend mentally, physically, spiritually. We use to have a sense that a father/ mother was something to look up to. That being faithful to a spouse, not stealing, cheating, doing well in school, competition, winning, family etc.... was whats great,......... now stealing, cheating, everyone wins, doing the minimum etc ...is what we focus on. We are in a decline!!! Where does that stop and end, Parents. Teaching your child right from wrong, teaching them to try their best, try to win!!! If they dont, don't then make that as good as winning. Its not...otherwise your kids become entitled. They get things no matter what. Dont make your kids entitled...the USA has so many entitled people its disgusting!

I know I rambled and but I think I got the point across.
Those are the reasons we are in decline.
A low life teacher

Utica, NY

#265 Aug 20, 2014
What I said was and is the Truth...but its not popular to speak it.
Truth

Utica, NY

#266 Aug 20, 2014
A low life teacher wrote:
What I said was and is the Truth...but its not popular to speak it.
I like what you wrote.
I don't necessarily agree with everything 100% but that long post certainly shows that you've given this some serious thought. Very nice.

Where we differ I guess is that I like the idea of a standard. All children getting the same information and taking the same tests. This as opposed to letting every teacher or school district set their own agenda and curriculum. In the 1970's it seemed like every enthusiastic young teacher thought they had the next best teaching or grading method. What we ended up with is a hodgepodge of this and that all over the place. If not for Regents exams I think we would have ended up much worse off. That's the way that the educational environment evolved. I'm not saying that a teacher's creativity should be stifled but come on. These aren't subjects in a science experiment. These are children who grow into the adults that we expect will run the country.

I applaud the "No Child Left Behind" program because it was an attempt to try to make sure that all children got at least the same basics. Before that we heard all kinds of horror stories about children who were passed from grade to grade and then graduated with basic math and reading skills. Common Core does the same type of thing. Is it perfect? Probably not. It is though an attempt at solving the problem of the decline in public education due to the lack of uniformity.

In a perfect world there would be enough money to have one teacher for every student so that every child could develop at their own pace. The reality is the opposite. That means that we have to concentrate our efforts in order to educate and give the same basics to as many children as we can. There is no room for in this effort for lazy teachers or teachers who want to experiment/explore alternative methods and material.
Educator

Canastota, NY

#267 Aug 20, 2014
One size doesant fit all! You have smart students and then you have slow students, so different strokes for different folks when it comes to teaching students!!,
FYI

Syracuse, NY

#268 Aug 20, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe you would have gotten a lesser education if the same people who taught you had to contribute to fund their own retirement accounts rather than having the taxpayers fund most of it? If so you have a pretty low opinion of the work ethic of teachers.
I am a teacher and so is my spouse. We are tier 4 but we also have our own private accounts too as we don't trust the system. Many teachers- more than you may think- do. We are not stupid. We know what happened in Detroit. I think if that were to happen here though you'd see the mother of all lawsuits as people are duly vested in their pension and deserve to receive it after at least 25 years of service. We'll see but I doubt you'll see teachers be denied their pension in NY. What you will, and are seeing, are changes in contribution rates and less benefit in the end as new tiers are added.
Educator

Canastota, NY

#269 Aug 21, 2014
Tier4 Pension is the best Pension Tier that employees will ever see, it has since been replaced by Tier 5 and 6, for prospective new employees who must now contribute towards their pension from the first day of work until the last day before they retire, previously employees only bad to contribute for the first 10 years!, also any overtime is no longer included in the pension, additionally, employees must now pay according to a sliding scale upwards to a total of 6 percent of their gross yearly salary, and the overall pension formula is now less than 2 percent a year ! I'm sure glad I'm in the old Tier 4 system?
A low life teacher

Utica, NY

#270 Aug 21, 2014
First a question for tier 4 teachers, as I am tier 4 as well. What about pension and overload. Does our pension take into account the overload as part of our pay for the highest 3 consecutive years...or is it our base pay? BTW I have a private account as well. I don't count on anything and I also want to make sure that I have more than enough.... Also I would love for people to read my original post....then my second post..........anyone who has been an educator would agree. I don't want any child left behind either...and the concept is good, however; when the majority gets slighted for the minority(STUDENTS THAT IS) then the system is not right. I also believe that each grade should have a basline of teaching the same thing. But I also believe children should not just be pushed to the next grade....by placing everyone on the same pedistal....we get no stand outs.....and again we get mediocrity. there's a new push to give more and more to the "at risk" students and less and less to the medium and high achieving students so that they all get to the same level. What?????? Sounds like a science fiction book I read where really good dancers had to wear chains around their body so they didn't dance better than others...they decided to brake the chains and dance beautifully on t.v and got shot and killed for making others feel bad. Is this what we are comming to....Do you get the similarity...get everone on the same level...well what is going to be the level everyone can achieve. One of the big reasons for the decline in education. So going back to my original post. I decided to become a teacher for many reasons. Love to teach and worked hard to get where I am. It is a tough field to get a job, there is a lot of competition....Don't we want that? With all the new mandates to keep your teaching cert, and all the new bogus paperwork for teacher evals and state tests....teaching is looking less and less like teaching. Get real...I really see it as those that arn't in the teaching field crying because they don't have a pension...or as good of one. If those same people worked their tail's off to get a teaching job, work with students and parents and admins and pricipals etc...They would be saying they deserve the pension. Again I am more than capable of going out in the private sector to get a job, not only did i graduate with numerous honors, I gave up a much much higher paying job to become a teacher. Yes I chose a lower paying job, because I wanted to teach. Though I was going to be getting paid less, I certainly did look at the fact that I would have a decent pension. It did help me make the decision to leave a much higher paying job. So in closing I would like to say....Think about it, do you really want those that passed with 33% teaching your children and the future of this country???
Capitalist

Kirkville, NY

#271 Aug 21, 2014
Although I like teaching I also like to have a great pension, benefits, and salary? After all, I believe I deserve it, so I I really don't care what people say about working for less so that they can make a difference, I for one want to be well compensated just like any other professional!!
Educator

Rome, NY

#272 Aug 22, 2014
Government Pensions are sure better than 401k plans!!
civil service

Kirkville, NY

#273 Aug 23, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish I could show you how wrong you are. I've never expected anyone to take care of me in my retirement so I've planned for taking care of myself. I've had the help of some profit sharing and other employer contributions along the way but for the most part I've done the funding. I just never adopted that entitlement attitude so prevalent in the public sector.
In your world though anyone who doesn't have the union entitlement attitude and disagrees with you must be a failure. I can assure you, that is not the case for me or millions of other private sector producers who foot most of the bill for your demands and lifestyle.
You are just a big cry baby, whining and whining, get a life! nobody cares what you did or didnt do!believe me, nobody cares.
jealous failure

Kirkville, NY

#274 Aug 23, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I like what you wrote.
I don't necessarily agree with everything 100% but that long post certainly shows that you've given this some serious thought. Very nice.
Where we differ I guess is that I like the idea of a standard. All children getting the same information and taking the same tests. This as opposed to letting every teacher or school district set their own agenda and curriculum. In the 1970's it seemed like every enthusiastic young teacher thought they had the next best teaching or grading method. What we ended up with is a hodgepodge of this and that all over the place. If not for Regents exams I think we would have ended up much worse off. That's the way that the educational environment evolved. I'm not saying that a teacher's creativity should be stifled but come on. These aren't subjects in a science experiment. These are children who grow into the adults that we expect will run the country.
I applaud the "No Child Left Behind" program because it was an attempt to try to make sure that all children got at least the same basics. Before that we heard all kinds of horror stories about children who were passed from grade to grade and then graduated with basic math and reading skills. Common Core does the same type of thing. Is it perfect? Probably not. It is though an attempt at solving the problem of the decline in public education due to the lack of uniformity.
In a perfect world there would be enough money to have one teacher for every student so that every child could develop at their own pace. The reality is the opposite. That means that we have to concentrate our efforts in order to educate and give the same basics to as many children as we can. There is no room for in this effort for lazy teachers or teachers who want to experiment/explore alternative methods and material.
It must suck to be so jealous of other people! poor you! lol
Teacher

Rome, NY

#275 Aug 23, 2014
People shouldn't get envious of other people just because they have better pensions!!
Norm Stamboly

Rome, NY

#276 Aug 23, 2014
Public Pensions are Terrific!!
Big Dave

Rome, NY

#277 Aug 23, 2014
I believe the public should pick up the tab on Teacher Pensions!!!
High school teacher

Rome, NY

#278 Aug 24, 2014
Hey! One of the reasons I went into teaching was for the guaranteed lifetime pension?
inferior products

Kirkville, NY

#279 Aug 25, 2014
I dont care about the pensions teachers get, what bothers me is the product they turn out! pretty bad! Just imagine for instance auto workers turning out a product like that!
Bill Gates

Nedrow, NY

#280 Aug 25, 2014
Public Pensions is one of the caveats of attracting great employees!
Truth

Utica, NY

#281 Aug 25, 2014
inferior products wrote:
I dont care about the pensions teachers get, what bothers me is the product they turn out! pretty bad! Just imagine for instance auto workers turning out a product like that!
Automakers do. Have you been following the record number of GM recalls?
inferior products

Kirkville, NY

#282 Aug 26, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Automakers do. Have you been following the record number of GM recalls?
Yes, but I think the teachers still have a much worse record, just look around, especially in Utica.

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