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homeowner

Utica, NY

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#62
Mar 24, 2014
 

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pretend to be smart wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that statement cannot be proven as factual. It would be 100% completely impossible for the ALL of them to want anything when a high majority of Utica taxpayers wouldn't even know what a State Control Board is.
And by your last sentence, you don't have a clue what a State Control Board does either.
I'll match my IQ with you any day and I'll win!!!!!!

I am VERY aware of what the Control Board will do - the only ones that are afraid of it coming into Utica and taking over are the politicians and all their "friends" that have been using the City's finances as their own personal "cash cow".

You would also be surprsed how many Utica taxpapers DO and WANT the Control Board to come here - and they also are well informed!

One of the first things a Control Board will do is void out ALL previous contracts made with the Unions for the majority of the City's employees.

Then, they will start making cuts in the employment - something they should have done years ago.

Then, they will start taking a look at all the "perks" our politicians are getting - paid by the City.

Just these 3 things would lowed the current Budget to at least a ZERO increase in taxes- if not a big negative!
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#63
Mar 24, 2014
 
homeowner wrote:
<quoted text>I'll match my IQ with you any day and I'll win!!!!!!
I am VERY aware of what the Control Board will do - the only ones that are afraid of it coming into Utica and taking over are the politicians and all their "friends" that have been using the City's finances as their own personal "cash cow".
You would also be surprsed how many Utica taxpapers DO and WANT the Control Board to come here - and they also are well informed!
One of the first things a Control Board will do is void out ALL previous contracts made with the Unions for the majority of the City's employees.
Then, they will start making cuts in the employment - something they should have done years ago.
Then, they will start taking a look at all the "perks" our politicians are getting - paid by the City.
Just these 3 things would lowed the current Budget to at least a ZERO increase in taxes- if not a big negative!
The first thing the Control Board does is remove city government, namely the mayor and common council. Voiding contracts is not automatic. Before they start making any cuts to employment, etc. they have to actually review if or where cuts can be made. Again, these cuts are not automatic as you imply them to be.

Your IQ is slowly diminishing.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#64
Mar 24, 2014
 
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't know that and I didn't find it in the charter. The charter does say that if the budget is amended and the mayor vetoes the amendment, the council has four days to override that veto with a two thirds vote. If they do not then the mayor's objections are adopted. Article VII, Section F. Is that what your are referring to?
http://ecode360.com/14003688
I also didn't know that the results of the audit won't be complete until probably September.
I heard Frank Vescera on the radio this morning talking about this and how frustrating it is to not have current information. He said that he and former councilman Zecca had been pushing for some kind of monthly(or so) accounting of where the city stood vs. the budget they were working from. he said they met with nothing but stonewalling from the comptroller's office. He said they were requesting just some kind of brief synopsis of what came in, what went out and how things compared year to date. That sounds like a reasonable request and one that allow the Common Council to make more informed decisions. It's how businesses run.
You didn't find it, yet you just posted it. Four days.

Some should get educated about Control Boards. Here is an article from 2012 and Utica is even mentioned. Buffalo either still is or was operating under a Control Board as well.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/07/us-...
Truth

Utica, NY

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#65
Mar 24, 2014
 
homeowner wrote:
<quoted text>The taxpapers of Utica ALL want the State Control Board to come to Utica and take control over the handling of the City's fiancial mess. What the hell does it take to get them to come and how much longer do the 31% of the citizens that are carrying the heavy load of these taxes, have to wait!!!!
The first thing the Control Board needs to do is get rid of EVERY Single Councilman!!!!!!
Before advocating for a state control board I think everyone should take a deep breath and understand what that means. A control board not only has the power to void union contracts that are hurting a city but they also have the power to raise taxes to any level they like with worrying about a tax cap.

When a control board takes over they don't get rid of anyone. They take all of their power away though and are able to dictate what local officials do and don't have power over. The theory of course is that for a city to get to a point where they require that kind of outside intervention, the people in charge of running the city aren't up to the task. I've read a lot of stories about elected officials who've been stripped of all of their decision making power and how they feel about that. In most cases they don't feel like they've done anything to deserve that type of treatment.

The best thing that can happen is for Utica city officials to understand where the current path leads. That should dictate what actions they take. If the problem is contractual obligations then they need to re-visit those and renegotiate if possible. Absent that they need to negotiate in future from a more realistic place. They have to know and have to let the unions know that the current state of affairs is unsustainable. Utica is a failing city. The producers/taxpayers are fleeing. Not only to other states but to suburbs where they can get a better deal tax-wise and their children can get a better education. It's common sense.

I hope that it never comes to a control board but if that is the only way to break this cycle then it has to be done before all of the producers leave and there is nothing left but government employees and social service clients.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#66
Mar 24, 2014
 

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http://nymuniblog.com/everything-you-ever-wan...

And to be honest, not arguing whether they should or should not nullify many of those union contracts because ABSOLUTELY they should. Just pointing out this does not happen automatically. Public safety is the biggest item on Utica's expenses by far. That alone beckons to be cut.
Truth

Utica, NY

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#67
Mar 24, 2014
 
pretend to be smart wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that statement cannot be proven as factual. It would be 100% completely impossible for the ALL of them to want anything when a high majority of Utica taxpayers wouldn't even know what a State Control Board is.
And by your last sentence, you don't have a clue what a State Control Board does either.
You need to understand that people often lash out in frustration and it's not hard to get that way given the politics of Utica.

Many people I talk to have the same opinion about having a control board just come in and take over. The general feeling is that no matter what it is, it will be better than what we have and eventually put the city's finances back on track. Given the history of Utica politics who can honestly fault them for believing that the only way things will get better is if someone from outside the friends and family plan has the say so?

I recently watched a rebroadcast of a Utica Common Council Meeting on public access. Have you ever done that or been at a recent council meeting? It was unbelievable. It was like a bunch of sixth graders learning about "Robert's Rule of Order" without a teacher present. When I watched it I remember thinking that I hoped no one from outside Utica was watching from their hotel because it was so embarrassing.

Again, how can you blame anyone for wanting something different for Utica?
homeowner

Utica, NY

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#68
Mar 24, 2014
 
pretend to be smart wrote:
<quoted text>
The first thing the Control Board does is remove city government, namely the mayor and common council. Voiding contracts is not automatic. Before they start making any cuts to employment, etc. they have to actually review if or where cuts can be made. Again, these cuts are not automatic as you imply them to be.
Your IQ is slowly diminishing.
So is yours!
homeowner

Utica, NY

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#69
Mar 24, 2014
 

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to understand that people often lash out in frustration and it's not hard to get that way given the politics of Utica.
Many people I talk to have the same opinion about having a control board just come in and take over. The general feeling is that no matter what it is, it will be better than what we have and eventually put the city's finances back on track. Given the history of Utica politics who can honestly fault them for believing that the only way things will get better is if someone from outside the friends and family plan has the say so?
I recently watched a rebroadcast of a Utica Common Council Meeting on public access. Have you ever done that or been at a recent council meeting? It was unbelievable. It was like a bunch of sixth graders learning about "Robert's Rule of Order" without a teacher present. When I watched it I remember thinking that I hoped no one from outside Utica was watching from their hotel because it was so embarrassing.
Again, how can you blame anyone for wanting something different for Utica?
YES!!!

I have been to many Common Council Meetings (especially when it concerned the Budget) and I walked away from when the meeting was over utterly amazed at the LACK of common sense, business ethics and rules of Parliament for conducting a Meeting, and especially the language and lack of intelligence shown by the people who had been elected by the taxpapers to represent them. Then there were a few that never spoke up - just sat there like a log so they could earn their $15,800 Part-time salary for being there!!!!

I've attended at least 6 Common Council Meetings and got so disgusted, I don't even bother to go anymore. It is nothing more than a waste of my time as nothing positive gets done or accomplished by these uneducated parasites.

I'm not going to mention this person's name, but I tried and tried to get him to run for Councilman in the District where I live as he is exactly the type of person that has the knowledge and experience to work with the taxpapers to help turn this City into what it use to be many years ago. He is self-employed, very successful, famiily man, owns his own home in Utica,- BUT- he has recently put his house up For Sale!!!! His reasoning for doing so is that he does NOT want his children to be going to Proctor and be exposed to the large majority of gutter trash and hoodlum gangs that also attend this school.

As long as Utica continues to bring in the NYC Black population, and all these immigrants, both of which have no marketable skills and are very content to sell drugs and live off the Welfare System that the taxpapers are paying for, Utica will continue on the path it is now - DOWNWARD.

Did you read about the "pistol Wipping" incident at Noon on a beautiful Sunday afternoon at the Hampton Inn's Parking Lot - all over Heroin. One person (a 22 year old white drug dealer)was arrested; the other one got away. All took place in N. Utica which, so far, has limited the growth of the black loctus that have ruined all the other neighborhoods in Utica. BUT - with all the "new" businesses being built on N. Genesee St., it is only a matter of time before the ENTIRE City of Utica turns into nothing more than a mini Detroit.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#70
Mar 24, 2014
 

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homeowner wrote:
<quoted text> So is yours!
Typical small minded rebuttal. In three simple words, you proved my point regarding your intelligence.

Run along now. It is not polite to interrupt adults when they are conversing...
Early

Whitesboro, NY

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#71
Mar 24, 2014
 
When I cant find Seinfeld on TV, I watch The Common Council Meetings for my laughs.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#72
Mar 24, 2014
 

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homeowner wrote:
<quoted text>YES!!!

As long as Utica continues to bring in the NYC Black population, and all these immigrants, both of which have no marketable skills and are very content to sell drugs and live off the Welfare System that the taxpapers are paying for, Utica will continue on the path it is now - DOWNWARD.
Did you read about the "pistol Wipping" incident at Noon on a beautiful Sunday afternoon at the Hampton Inn's Parking Lot - all over Heroin. One person (a 22 year old white drug dealer)was arrested; the other one got away. All took place in N. Utica which, so far, has limited the growth of the black loctus that have ruined all the other neighborhoods in Utica. BUT - with all the "new" businesses being built on N. Genesee St., it is only a matter of time before the ENTIRE City of Utica turns into nothing more than a mini Detroit.
Racist and ignorant. Par for the course as they say.
Truth

Utica, NY

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#73
Mar 24, 2014
 
pretend to be smart wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't find it, yet you just posted it. Four days.
Some should get educated about Control Boards. Here is an article from 2012 and Utica is even mentioned. Buffalo either still is or was operating under a Control Board as well.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/07/us-...
The charter doesn't say they couldn't have delayed the vote which is what I was speaking to previously. It says that if the council makes changes(amendments) and the mayor vetoes those changes(amendments), then the council has 4 days to override the veto by a two-thirds vote or the budget stands as submitted originally by the mayor. It does not say that the council cannot delay the vote.

I agree that people should educate themselves regarding control boards. I've read quite a lot about control boards both here in New York and other parts of the country thinking that may end up being the only option left for Utica if things continue the way they have been going. Each one seems to be slightly different in scope but my take away is that one thing they all have in common is that they "de-nut" the current government. Democracy and politics are suspended in favor of making sound business-like decisions at least in the short term. Detroit is probably the most well known but have you ever heard of Central Falls, RI?
http://www.governing.com/blogs/fedwatch/What-...

Control boards don't just look at union contracts. They look at everything. They close libraries, pools and parks too.

Buffalo is still active:
http://www.bfsa.state.ny.us/
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#74
Mar 24, 2014
 
The Control Board for Buffalo stepped down in May of 2012 from from active oversight to an advisory role, as stated in the Reuters article I referenced above. What you've referenced is probably the Authority that was formed by the Control Board that operates on its own now.

BTW, the Utica Public Library receives no funding from the City of Utica, and therefore, would be unaffected. Just to clear the air for those who think otherwise.

As far as the budget vote goes, there does not appear to be any mechanism to delay it that I can see in the Charter. Just trying to amend it seems to be their recourse. In any event, the CC's "no" vote may have been symbolic in their eyes, but it was empty and meaningless, and the public should be made aware of that. Many, if not all of them, knew that, without putting up any of their own changes, would result in a legal default to the Mayor's budget as is. Their empty "no" votes equates to a pouting child who didn't get their way.
Utica is da best ever

Utica, NY

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#76
Mar 24, 2014
 
Control board is inevitable, the whole purpose of the control board is to avoid bankruptcy when a city is on the brink as utica is. It needs to get worse to get better is the problem and the political climate keep it right on the edge so they can maximize the benefits. Ultimately one unforeseen event will tip it over and then it will be a done deal.
Personal, town, city, state, country budgets are all based on the same fact, you can only spend what you have coming in. You can borrow short term to fill NEEDS not wants. If you borrow for wants and spend excessively you go bankrupt although it does not happen overnight.
A control board will chop the corruption with a chainsaw within a short time and probably raise taxes to near the consitutional limit in the short term to increSe a buffer fund.
Yes taxes might go up but as we are not far off the constitutional limit they will be no worse than these constant, ridiculous and unsustainable ten percent raises. Also that would likely be short term as even a fool would realise at this point that property taxes being low is NOT the problem.
So in the short term yes they might go up but that would actually be a savings over the longer term.
The importaint thing is despite any short term pain the union contracts would be chopped right down as would the fire department and the bloated friends and family plan.
That is why so many taxpayers want it to happen and also why the mayor and council are so against it.
aurelio bianco

Syracuse, NY

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#77
Mar 24, 2014
 

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The UFD claims the ambulance service is bringing in $2M/year. Ask the UFD (Chief Brooks) lets see where in the budget is the $2M. What will he say??????????
one who knows

Utica, NY

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#78
Mar 24, 2014
 

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aurelio bianco wrote:
The UFD claims the ambulance service is bringing in $2M/year. Ask the UFD (Chief Brooks) lets see where in the budget is the $2M. What will he say??????????
It is NOT reported or listed in the Budget!!!!!
Truth

Utica, NY

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#79
Mar 25, 2014
 

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pretend to be smart wrote:
The Control Board for Buffalo stepped down in May of 2012 from from active oversight to an advisory role, as stated in the Reuters article I referenced above. What you've referenced is probably the Authority that was formed by the Control Board that operates on its own now.
BTW, the Utica Public Library receives no funding from the City of Utica, and therefore, would be unaffected. Just to clear the air for those who think otherwise.
As far as the budget vote goes, there does not appear to be any mechanism to delay it that I can see in the Charter. Just trying to amend it seems to be their recourse. In any event, the CC's "no" vote may have been symbolic in their eyes, but it was empty and meaningless, and the public should be made aware of that. Many, if not all of them, knew that, without putting up any of their own changes, would result in a legal default to the Mayor's budget as is. Their empty "no" votes equates to a pouting child who didn't get their way.
The Buffalo Control Board is still active and will be for another 25 years. It is the same control board but it has moved from a "hard" oversight to a "soft" advisory status and that's described in the article I'm citing. It can be changed back to a hard control status in the event of mismanagement on the part of the city. It is the same board and it is still active.
http://news.wbfo.org/post/buffalo-control-boa...

While the Utica library does not currently receive funding from the city of Utica, libraries in other cities currently under control boards do. That was my point. Most people think a control board just comes in and voids union contracts. That's not true. They look at everything. The Utica Zoo is owned by the city of Utica, The Val Bialis ski area is owned by the city of Utica. Proctor Park and most of the neighborhood parks around town are owned by the city of Utica and maintained by the Parks Department. While other entities may run some of these, a control board I would guess will look at these contracts to ensure they are in the best interest of the city taxpayers.

My thought on the delay was this. The US Congress, in the absence of a budget, is able to pass continuing resolutions to fund the government, freezing spending at current levels in many cases. Is the Utica Common Council able to do the same thing? I didn't see anything in the charter one way or another. It would keep everything going until they got the information they felt they needed to pass a meaningful budget. They are a legislative body. They should legislate to the extent they are able rather than copping out which is what they did with their no vote.
pretend to be smart

Utica, NY

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#80
Mar 25, 2014
 

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aurelio bianco wrote:
The UFD claims the ambulance service is bringing in $2M/year. Ask the UFD (Chief Brooks) lets see where in the budget is the $2M. What will he say??????????
Funny thing is, based on NYS law and case history, the City of Utica is only allowed to charge for ambulance service an amount to cover their expenses. They cannot charge more to make a profit. To this day, they still have not given the public a full accounting of that service. Those books are more than cooked....
Hahaha

Rushville, NY

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#81
Mar 25, 2014
 

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homeowner wrote:
<quoted text>I'll match my IQ with you any day and I'll win!!!!!!
I am VERY aware of what the Control Board will do - the only ones that are afraid of it coming into Utica and taking over are the politicians and all their "friends" that have been using the City's finances as their own personal "cash cow".
You would also be surprsed how many Utica taxpapers DO and WANT the Control Board to come here - and they also are well informed!
One of the first things a Control Board will do is void out ALL previous contracts made with the Unions for the majority of the City's employees.
Then, they will start making cuts in the employment - something they should have done years ago.
Then, they will start taking a look at all the "perks" our politicians are getting - paid by the City.
Just these 3 things would lowed the current Budget to at least a ZERO increase in taxes- if not a big negative!
Joan Murphy you are the biggest loser in this city please get off topix you racist troll
Yup

Honeoye Falls, NY

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#82
Mar 25, 2014
 
Yup

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