Wondering

Utica, NY

#106 Dec 4, 2013
NDFan wrote:
<quoted text>
It's an internal personnel matter at a private school. How is it you believe they owe an explanation to the general public? There have been meetings with and mass emails to parents on the subject. The people inside the ND community have access and have information. It's been my experience that ND doesn't comment publicly on any internal policy or personnel matters. They comment to the people who they are responsible to though.
Doubt your belief? Belief in what? That you are entitled to full disclosure about matters you are not involved with or affected by?
As most people with something to hide, you make the mistake that I am unaffected by what happens at NDHS. You may be one of the "elite" parents at ND, but most have the opinion that hiding behind "personnel matters" is not in the school's best interest.
The writing is on the wall for ND; the future is bleak, and their handling of this fiasco is making it worse.
NDFan

Utica, NY

#107 Dec 4, 2013
ND parent wrote:
<quoted text>
They has been no clear communication from the administration to the ND parents at all. One email saying he resigned. Thats it.
Whether you chose to believe it or not this has had a long lasting negative impact on the kids. This is not just about the football kids. Every kid in the school knows coach was fired because Gilroys kid didn't play in the game-everyone heard him at the game saying Coach was going to be fired for sitting his son. The only positive is that the ND kids have learned that special treatment is alive and well, even in a Christian school. They will be smarter now to how the world of people like Joseph, Gilroy and Anna Mae really works.
Now they know that even their principal, who is a nun, is unfair and unethical. Who can these kids trust within there school? Truth us, no one.
As far as the community, ND is the only real private school option around here. People that are considering to send children, nieces and nephews, grandkids etc deserve full information about their options. Also, local church donations are given to the school. Everyone has a right to have an ethical ND school in their community.
Have you ever been to a public school board meeting? Time Warner broadcasts the Utica City School District board meetings. Have you ever watched those? I don't think you've been exposed to any of this because if you had you would know that when personnel issues come up, and they often do, the board goes into executive session behind closed doors. When they come out of executive session they do not comment on what was discussed or what actions were or were not taken on any personnel matter. School employees are let go all of the time without comment or explanation. That's a very common policy. It does not mean there was wrongdoing or that the decision was unethical.

Another example is what has happened in two smaller school districts over the past year. Principals were let go and in both cases the local boards of education refused to comment about why. Parents were upset and wanted answers. In both cases no comment was given because it was the policy of each of those districts to not comment on personnel issues.

You may not like it but this is standard operating procedure. Your statment about Sister Anna Mae being unfair and unethical is your opinion. You feel that way because of what happened to Coach Abraham. Not everyone agrees with your assessment. The football people do. I get that.

Not every kid in the school knows or agrees with what you said about what happened to Coach Abraham. There are kids who know that an order was given and Coach Abraham, rather than questioning the order at the time, decided he would do what he wanted on game day. He did that. He got suspended for that insubordination and the after a time resigned. That's what many kids outside the ND football community know.
NDFan

Utica, NY

#108 Dec 4, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
As most people with something to hide, you make the mistake that I am unaffected by what happens at NDHS. You may be one of the "elite" parents at ND, but most have the opinion that hiding behind "personnel matters" is not in the school's best interest.
The writing is on the wall for ND; the future is bleak, and their handling of this fiasco is making it worse.
Schools more often than not do not comment on personnel matters. That doesn't mean they are hiding anything and it certainly doesn't mean they've done anything wrong. It's widely held policy. You can look that up.

You make it sound like there is some secret cabal of anti-football parents who plotted and then executed a plan for the resignation of Coach Abraham. There isn't. The guy arrogantly thought he was bigger than the school's authority. He was wrong. That's what this really comes down to.

Time will tell what the future of ND is. I hope it stays strong an continues to grow. It really is one of the only local alternatives to the public schools. I also hope that anyone considering ND for their children will see this episode for what it was and understand where all of the anger posted here is coming from and give it the right amount of consideration. People are smart and my guess is that they will.
johnny boy

New Hartford, NY

#109 Dec 4, 2013
Hahahahahbaba...NDfan...you keep saying he was ordered. This has been proven that he was not ordered to play kids. All you need to do is ask the assistant principal and the AD. Ask why he was suspened for 1 game and not the season. Ask why judge romano clark resigned from your board. Just stop with your nonsense. You have no argument. The suspension and dismisal was a sham...an elite board member had it out for him. You said he arrogantly thought he was bigger than the schools authority. ..shame on you...he was the only one concered about the safety of those boys. You have no idea about football .. that's obvious. Anna mae is the arrogant fool that's driving the school down the rch path. And people like you of course. I'm quite sure coach will have the last laugh
NDFan

Utica, NY

#110 Dec 5, 2013
johnny boy wrote:
Hahahahahbaba...NDfan...you keep saying he was ordered. This has been proven that he was not ordered to play kids. All you need to do is ask the assistant principal and the AD. Ask why he was suspened for 1 game and not the season. Ask why judge romano clark resigned from your board. Just stop with your nonsense. You have no argument. The suspension and dismisal was a sham...an elite board member had it out for him. You said he arrogantly thought he was bigger than the schools authority...shame on you...he was the only one concered about the safety of those boys. You have no idea about football .. that's obvious. Anna mae is the arrogant fool that's driving the school down the rch path. And people like you of course. I'm quite sure coach will have the last laugh
I never said she ordered anyone to play anyone. What she said was that no athlete would sit out of thier respective sport because they attended the ROTC boot camp. That's much different than ordering a coach to play certain players. This order went beyond football to other sports. Other sports complied, football did not.
That is what was proven.

For those who say no order was ever given, please explain how and why some football players quit the ROTC program before the boot camp in order to play that week's game. Coach Abraham's decision was well known among his players and others in the time prior to the boot camp trip.

Here is what happened.
Sister told everyone that no player would have to sit out of that week's sporting event if the only reason was that they attended the boot camp.

Coach Abraham disagreed with that and made it clear that players who went to boot camp would not play that following Saurday.

Some players went to boot camp and some chose to quit ROTC in order to play.

On Saturday those players who went to boot camp were not allowed to play.

Some parents were rightly upset about Coach Abraham's open defiance and insubordination. They complained and he was suspended.

You can make all of the arguments you want about preparation and safety but the time to make that argument was when the order was given and the responsibility for making that argument belonged to the coach. The question everyone should ask is if he made that opinion known to the administration at that time or, did he decide to just inject his judgement in open defiance of an order he was given. I think the suspension and eventual resignation answer that. This goes beyond football and you don't seem to understand that.
johnny boy

New Hartford, NY

#111 Dec 5, 2013
All the players knew. The admin knew. The kids were not to be penalized and they were not. They just were not prepared to play in the game. Coach didn't make them run or do any extra duties for missing an entire week of practice. Read the student handbook about playing time before you spout off. Its your own school rules. Your so wrong here and you keep beating a dead horse. ND was wrong..a influential parent complained and got his way. No kid quit ROTC...the event wasn't mantatory. Did you really expect kids to play a contact sport like football without a week of practice. Its not soccer lady ! Just ask the ROTC kid that broke his arm the following game. You have no idea NDfan. Just wait till the next coach is faced with the warped nun and MR JP GILROY ! Lol lol
ND Fan too

Utica, NY

#112 Dec 5, 2013
To the ND Fan - I'd suggest that you stop (immediately) your posts. You are not helping the situation at all by keeping this BS post alive. Enough already!
Wondering

Utica, NY

#113 Dec 5, 2013
NDFan wrote:
<quoted text>
Schools more often than not do not comment on personnel matters. That doesn't mean they are hiding anything and it certainly doesn't mean they've done anything wrong. It's widely held policy. You can look that up.
You make it sound like there is some secret cabal of anti-football parents who plotted and then executed a plan for the resignation of Coach Abraham. There isn't. The guy arrogantly thought he was bigger than the school's authority. He was wrong. That's what this really comes down to.
Time will tell what the future of ND is. I hope it stays strong an continues to grow. It really is one of the only local alternatives to the public schools. I also hope that anyone considering ND for their children will see this episode for what it was and understand where all of the anger posted here is coming from and give it the right amount of consideration. People are smart and my guess is that they will.
People are smart. You have that CORRECT. They see through the sham that this is a "personnel matter" and not to be discussed in public. WRONG!
This is all about special access of "elite parents" to the administration, not enjoyed by all parents. It is about the spoiled few who get their way because they have an inside track to decisions made that affect the whloe school. The sooner the administration admits the truth, the better it will be. ND is in a precarious position and this fiasco is making it worse. People are smart.

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#114 Dec 5, 2013
NDFan wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said she ordered anyone to play anyone. What she said was that no athlete would sit out of thier respective sport because they attended the ROTC boot camp. That's much different than ordering a coach to play certain players.
You are contradicting yourself here. If she said "no athlete would sit out" isn't that the same as saying the players WILL play? It seems to me that she was "ordering the coach to play certain players" (the players who went to ROTC camp).

The coach made it very clear that he did not support the decision that was made by the administration to play these kids. He made it very clear to his team and anyone else who listened. He made the right decision and lost his job because of it. I give him credit for having the courage of his convictions. I think this sends a valuable lesson to all concerned. There are consequences to your choices. If you miss practice, you don't play. Also, if you stand your ground against orders from management that you disagree with (for whatever reason), you may be fired. I believe the only ones who have to rationalize there choices are Sister Anna Mae and the parents who caused this to happen. I'm guessing if they had it to do over it is their decisions that would have changed.
NDFan

Utica, NY

#115 Dec 5, 2013
JusticeDefiled13501 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are contradicting yourself here. If she said "no athlete would sit out" isn't that the same as saying the players WILL play? It seems to me that she was "ordering the coach to play certain players" (the players who went to ROTC camp).
The coach made it very clear that he did not support the decision that was made by the administration to play these kids. He made it very clear to his team and anyone else who listened. He made the right decision and lost his job because of it. I give him credit for having the courage of his convictions. I think this sends a valuable lesson to all concerned. There are consequences to your choices. If you miss practice, you don't play. Also, if you stand your ground against orders from management that you disagree with (for whatever reason), you may be fired. I believe the only ones who have to rationalize there choices are Sister Anna Mae and the parents who caused this to happen. I'm guessing if they had it to do over it is their decisions that would have changed.
No contradiction.
If a player was a starter then they would be a starter if they attended boot camp. If they were a bench rider they would be a bench rider if they attended boot camp. The point is that there were to be no sanctions against those players who chose to go to the boot camp.

Did he make his case to the administration at the time the order was given or did he just tell his team what he was going to do regardless what anyone said?

The only lesson being taught to the children here is that if you are given an order by your boss it's okay to ignore it because you don't agree with it. And you are right about consequences. Coach Abraham made his choices and now lives with the consequences of those choices.

I have another question. In the history of football at Notre Dame High School has it ever happened that a player missed practices due to illness, doctor/dentist appointments, family obligations, work obligations or anything else and still played in that week's game?
NDFan

Utica, NY

#116 Dec 5, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
People are smart. You have that CORRECT. They see through the sham that this is a "personnel matter" and not to be discussed in public. WRONG!
This is all about special access of "elite parents" to the administration, not enjoyed by all parents. It is about the spoiled few who get their way because they have an inside track to decisions made that affect the whloe school. The sooner the administration admits the truth, the better it will be. ND is in a precarious position and this fiasco is making it worse. People are smart.
There is a story in the news today about the Oppenheim Ephratah St. Johnsville Central School district. It's about their board of education dismissing the superintendant. It's on point here because it is also a personnel issue with the board refusing to comment to the public. Schools all over routinely refuse to comment on personnel issues. It doesn't mean that they've done anything wrong and it doesn't mean what happened was a sham.
NDFan

Utica, NY

#117 Dec 5, 2013
ND Fan too wrote:
To the ND Fan - I'd suggest that you stop (immediately) your posts. You are not helping the situation at all by keeping this BS post alive. Enough already!
Agreed.
It's just that the stubborn refusal on the part of so many to see their hypocrisy bothers me.
former ND parent

Utica, NY

#118 Dec 5, 2013
NDFan, just so you know I am not responding to your idiocy any further. Everyone knows the truth, but you are interested in spreading lies. Anyone who reads this from beginning to end will know what the real story is, a set up to get rid of the Coach.

You are just a bad person who doesn't want truth or to listen to reason.

It is people like you that have ruined ND. Good luck until JP graduates Vin. We are so over this issue and moving on. Later
Wondering

Utica, NY

#120 Dec 5, 2013
NDFan wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a story in the news today about the Oppenheim Ephratah St. Johnsville Central School district. It's about their board of education dismissing the superintendant. It's on point here because it is also a personnel issue with the board refusing to comment to the public. Schools all over routinely refuse to comment on personnel issues. It doesn't mean that they've done anything wrong and it doesn't mean what happened was a sham.
You can continue to make yourself the fool by claiming "personnel matters". For the last time: it is not about "personnel matters".
It is all about special access to the ND administration and their actions. "There are none so blind, as those who will not see".
ND future is in the balance. You are not helping.
Sama

United States

#121 Dec 5, 2013
ND parent wrote:
<quoted text>
They has been no clear communication from the administration to the ND parents at all. One email saying he resigned. Thats it.
Whether you chose to believe it or not this has had a long lasting negative impact on the kids. This is not just about the football kids. Every kid in the school knows coach was fired because Gilroys kid didn't play in the game-everyone heard him at the game saying Coach was going to be fired for sitting his son. The only positive is that the ND kids have learned that special treatment is alive and well, even in a Christian school. They will be smarter now to how the world of people like Joseph, Gilroy and Anna Mae really works.
Now they know that even their principal, who is a nun, is unfair and unethical. Who can these kids trust within there school? Truth us, no one.
As far as the community, ND is the only real private school option around here. People that are considering to send children, nieces and nephews, grandkids etc deserve full information about their options. Also, local church donations are given to the school. Everyone has a right to have an ethical ND school in their community.
I call bullsh*t on your nonsense. I have 2 kids at ND. I asked them what they thought about this whole situation the other day the answer I got from both was "who cares?". I said are your friends upset and they both said "no mom no one cares, no one is upset". So maybe you and the 5 other whack job parents that you talk to are upset but don't believe for a second that the majority of the kids in the school give 2 sh*ts about Abraham. Easy solution, if you don't like the school- you're child's attendance is optional. Take your kids to Proctor and don't let the door hit you in the way out.
wow

New Hartford, NY

#122 Dec 5, 2013
Look at the basketball team. Warmack brabham sulljvan and loconti. Abraham brought them to ND. Imagine the team without those 4 lol . Abraham brought over a dozen football players and a few baseball players as well. Add up the tuition dollars of the 20 kids he brought there. And you pay him what ? And he wins ? The real effect will be in a year when those kids aren't there
Really

Utica, NY

#123 Dec 5, 2013
What has abraham won. He has no sectional title to speak of. You are correct. He brings in all these kids and still csnt ein a championship he should be fired!
bobby B

Jamesville, NY

#124 Dec 5, 2013
Therein lies the problem. Why do you think Gilroy wants abraham out ? If those kids aren't at ND his kid is playing and starting on the hoop team. He wants those kids to leave so his kid can play. Is it just me or has anyone else seen this guy on the sidelines or at baseball or basketball games...all he does is tear up all the coaches and how they suck for not playing his kid. I can't wait until baseball and when he flips cuz his kid can't catch a fly ball. Hard to believe this idiot is on the school board
bobby B

Jamesville, NY

#125 Dec 5, 2013
By the way Sama. Of course your kids and kids friends don't care. They don't play sports. But ask the 24 football kids and modified kids. Ask the 35 parents that showed up to the meeting. Open your eyes. Nd jumped in bed with the devil. Nd enrollement is already down and wait until next year.
Wow

Utica, NY

#126 Dec 5, 2013
All of you who think this is about football are sadly mistaken.
You have been led down the path of misinformation to obfuscate the reality at hand.
Simply stated, ND administration has buckled in to perceived elite parental persuasion.
Those who believe that ND is a viable alternative for education in this community better demand a change in the leadership before it is too late. It may already be so.

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