Jeff Croop

Syracuse, NY

#43 Feb 27, 2013
Esche will be our modern day Skip Probst.....broke & broken before he turns 45.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#44 Feb 27, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow what?
Is what I said not true?
He moved the team because of the deal he received from the Albany ownership and the sweetheart deal he received from the then new knickerbocker arena actually.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#45 Feb 27, 2013
Jeff Croop wrote:
Esche will be our modern day Skip Probst.....broke & broken before he turns 45.
Hey Jeff. Have you paid any of your creditors yet? Lol
Truth

Utica, NY

#46 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
He moved the team because of the deal he received from the Albany ownership and the sweetheart deal he received from the then new knickerbocker arena actually.
The Utica Devils were hemorrhaging money the way I remember it. Low attendance and low season ticket sales led to the taking of that deal. If the fan base had been here to support the team I think history may have been written differently. Do you dispute the attendance figures?

It still makes no sense that an AHL team would come here with the knowledge that they would lose money.

The one thing Utica has going for it I suppose is proximity to other AHL teams. That could have the potential for setting up some rivalries. No guarantee it would put fannies in the seats though. When you look at the AHL attendance levels around the league, 2200-2400 a game isn't going to do it.
http://theahl.com/stats/schedule.php...
Truth

Utica, NY

#47 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Affiliations move all the time "Einstein" in the ahl. That's the nature of the beast "Eisenstein". Do you even realize "Einstein" that the Syracuse crunch are with their 5th NHL team already "Einstein".
If people support this team the affiliations may move but the team will be stable.
Yes, affiliations do change and it is part of the game. If people support this team ? How is Utica today different than Utica early 90's? Do you think the fan base for hockey has grown?

Syracuse draws over 5000 a game on average. The AUD can't hold 5000 for a game can they?

Too many holes in your story. Give us some facts or a credible source for what you're saying.
AHL GUY

Cortland, NY

#48 Feb 27, 2013
Sally Sunshine wrote:
<quoted text>
It is difficult to change someone's mind who has gone through several ownerships of pro hockey in this Utica area. I attended Clinton Comet Hockey Games in the Clinton Arena during the Eastern Hockey League Days. Indian Joe Nolan, Norm DeFelice, Ian Anderson, etc.
I held season tickets when the comets first moved to the Utica Aud, and right up through the Utica Devils. I enjoyed most of it, but as each enterprise leaves it takes its toll.
Therefore, I can see why some posters here are defensive of UC hockey,(I enjoy an occasional game).
They want hockey for families, but something they can afford. And, they want something they can cheer for each and every year.
I agree with your views but you have the same view as many others who are pessimistic in this area and with good reason giving the track record since the Comets left but with each new venture comes hope and opptomism so lets give this a chance!

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#49 Feb 27, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, affiliations do change and it is part of the game. If people support this team ? How is Utica today different than Utica early 90's? Do you think the fan base for hockey has grown?
Syracuse draws over 5000 a game on average. The AUD can't hold 5000 for a game can they?
Too many holes in your story. Give us some facts or a credible source for what you're saying.
I guess you have never heard the saying "a penny saved is a penny earned"? You have zero concept of how much money the abbottsford team has to spend on airline costs and hotels. Couple that with the fact they are in agreement to pay four other ahl teams travel costs when they visit abbotsford. Abbotsford is the only team in the western time zone. Every road game is a flight for them. Utica has an ahl almost ready arena smack dab in the middle of ahl country. All those flight become eliminated for the flames. This is not rocket science and this was the driving force behind the deal. Im not sure how many times i have to keep repeating myself. The ahl is downsizing thats a fact. Smaller venues equal smaller costs. Less travel means less money spent. Less travel also equals more practice and recovery time. Since the inception of the abbotford team, that team has been the most injured team in the league each season. Even if the flames make less revenue in utica which they may, when you take in the fact they are spending considerably less its actually a plus on their bottom line. Like I said. The deal is done. Check back in three weeks.
AHL GUY

Cortland, NY

#50 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you have never heard the saying "a penny saved is a penny earned"? You have zero concept of how much money the abbottsford team has to spend on airline costs and hotels. Couple that with the fact they are in agreement to pay four other ahl teams travel costs when they visit abbotsford. Abbotsford is the only team in the western time zone. Every road game is a flight for them. Utica has an ahl almost ready arena smack dab in the middle of ahl country. All those flight become eliminated for the flames. This is not rocket science and this was the driving force behind the deal. Im not sure how many times i have to keep repeating myself. The ahl is downsizing thats a fact. Smaller venues equal smaller costs. Less travel means less money spent. Less travel also equals more practice and recovery time. Since the inception of the abbotford team, that team has been the most injured team in the league each season. Even if the flames make less revenue in utica which they may, when you take in the fact they are spending considerably less its actually a plus on their bottom line. Like I said. The deal is done. Check back in three weeks.
Ahh why get frustrated "34"... just let them read it for themselves when it comes out !

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#51 Feb 27, 2013
The league is downsizing to trim costs. Here's an example.

In Albany the team plays out of the times union center which has a capacity of 14200 for hockey games. Average attendance in 2011 was 3114. In 2012 average attendance was 3435.

In adirondack the team plays out of the civic center which seats 4800. The average attendance in 2011 was 3575. In 2012 was 4611.

Is bigger really better? Is the economic status of the fans determine how well a team can do? Wouldn't the devils with those numbers actually make more money by downsizing their costs? I guarantee you that if the Albany franchise could flip flop with adirondack they would do it in a heartbeat. The devils did actually leave albany in 06 but it seems that the city has a hard on to keep a team at the times union center and a hard on to keep an NYC metro team.
Hockey

Camillus, NY

#52 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
The league is downsizing to trim costs. Here's an example.
In Albany the team plays out of the times union center which has a capacity of 14200 for hockey games. Average attendance in 2011 was 3114. In 2012 average attendance was 3435.
In adirondack the team plays out of the civic center which seats 4800. The average attendance in 2011 was 3575. In 2012 was 4611.
Is bigger really better? Is the economic status of the fans determine how well a team can do? Wouldn't the devils with those numbers actually make more money by downsizing their costs? I guarantee you that if the Albany franchise could flip flop with adirondack they would do it in a heartbeat. The devils did actually leave albany in 06 but it seems that the city has a hard on to keep a team at the times union center and a hard on to keep an NYC metro team.
David, David, David.....

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#53 Feb 27, 2013
Hockey wrote:
<quoted text>
David, David, David.....
Huh?

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#54 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
The league is downsizing to trim costs. Here's an example.
In Albany the team plays out of the times union center which has a capacity of 14200 for hockey games. Average attendance in 2011 was 3114. In 2012 average attendance was 3435.
In adirondack the team plays out of the civic center which seats 4800. The average attendance in 2011 was 3575. In 2012 was 4611.
Is bigger really better? Is the economic status of the fans determine how well a team can do? Wouldn't the devils with those numbers actually make more money by downsizing their costs? I guarantee you that if the Albany franchise could flip flop with adirondack they would do it in a heartbeat. The devils did actually leave albany in 06 but it seems that the city has a hard on to keep a team at the times union center and a hard on to keep an NYC metro team.
It's psychological for the players. If the building looks full... Damn,put a team in Kennedy Arena in Rome.
Hockey

Camillus, NY

#55 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh?
:-)

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#56 Feb 27, 2013
KY WELLER wrote:
<quoted text>It's psychological for the players. If the building looks full... Damn,put a team in Kennedy Arena in Rome.
Players don't really care if the building is full. They are in the ahl for one reason...to make the parent team. That's it. Same as the parent club. They have farm teams to feed the NHL team. It blows my mind how many people miss this concept. Are the owners of the ahl franchises trying to turn a profit? Of course they are. Are the parent clubs caring if the team turns a profit? Absolutely not. With the current state of the ahl utica is a very desirable location. See you in the fall at the aud!

Little tidbit of info. Based on consensus numbers the utica/Rome area is close to 300,000 potential fans. The binghampton area is slightly over 50000 less than that. Binghampton does well and so will the new utica franchise.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#57 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Players don't really care if the building is full. They are in the ahl for one reason...to make the parent team. That's it. Same as the parent club. They have farm teams to feed the NHL team. It blows my mind how many people miss this concept. Are the owners of the ahl franchises trying to turn a profit? Of course they are. Are the parent clubs caring if the team turns a profit? Absolutely not. With the current state of the ahl utica is a very desirable location. See you in the fall at the aud!
Little tidbit of info. Based on consensus numbers the utica/Rome area is close to 300,000 potential fans. The binghampton area is slightly over 50000 less than that. Binghampton does well and so will the new utica franchise.
I am well aware of th farm team concept. Ask any player in any sport how they view an energetic crowd. Maybe you will understand what I meant.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#58 Feb 27, 2013
KY WELLER wrote:
<quoted text> I am well aware of th farm team concept. Ask any player in any sport how they view an energetic crowd. Maybe you will understand what I meant.
Sure an energetic crowd helps to some degree but there sole intention is to make the parent team. Their motivation is not based off of crowd size. Turning it around I guess...if you were a player would you rather play in front of 3000 fans at the now 4000 seat utica aud or 3000 fans at the 14200 seat times union center in Albany? Same fan number...but one building is probably rocking just a little better I would say.
taxpayer

Utica, NY

#59 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure an energetic crowd helps to some degree but there sole intention is to make the parent team. Their motivation is not based off of crowd size. Turning it around I guess...if you were a player would you rather play in front of 3000 fans at the now 4000 seat utica aud or 3000 fans at the 14200 seat times union center in Albany? Same fan number...but one building is probably rocking just a little better I would say.
If an AHL team comes here to play I hope they are very successful because I am really tired of subsidising other peoples' losses. Rich people don't lose money on these ventures; public money somehow always bails them out.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#60 Feb 27, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure an energetic crowd helps to some degree but there sole intention is to make the parent team. Their motivation is not based off of crowd size. Turning it around I guess...if you were a player would you rather play in front of 3000 fans at the now 4000 seat utica aud or 3000 fans at the 14200 seat times union center in Albany? Same fan number...but one building is probably rocking just a little better I would say.
I know they are trying to get to the NHL. Motivation is directly related to performance,performance = promotion.
Da Law

Ilion, NY

#61 Feb 28, 2013
taxpayer wrote:
<quoted text>
If an AHL team comes here to play I hope they are very successful because I am really tired of subsidising other peoples' losses. Rich people don't lose money on these ventures; public money somehow always bails them out.
And that's really the elephant in the room for most of this discussion. I don't think anyone is opposed to an AHL team coming to Utica. Who would be? If it's not your cup of tea you don't have to buy a ticket.

What they're against is a single dime of taxpayer's funds being spent on the team, effectively forcing them to subsidize a luxury when basic services are falling apart.
taxpayer

Utica, NY

#62 Feb 28, 2013
Da Law wrote:
<quoted text>
And that's really the elephant in the room for most of this discussion. I don't think anyone is opposed to an AHL team coming to Utica. Who would be? If it's not your cup of tea you don't have to buy a ticket.
What they're against is a single dime of taxpayer's funds being spent on the team, effectively forcing them to subsidize a luxury when basic services are falling apart.
Well said and Amen!
Utica 34, where do you come down on this thought? You seem to be the self-proclaimed "All-knowing" on the subJect of hockey?

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