AHL returning?.....read Esche quote

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#244 Mar 7, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it that you believe this venture should qualify for public funding in any form? That's goes to the core of my opinion.
Not all communities scramble to get sports franchises. Perfect example. Los Angeles has had multiple NFL teams. They do not now nor are they lobbying for one. There is a point of diminished returns for any community that subsidizes sports teams. It comes down to whether the community will get bang for the buck. Given the histry of the AHL in Utica and the history of this franchise in particular, public funding of any kind doesn't seem wise.
I cited an article from NBC Sports. There is a comments section. Here's one from someone who seeems familiar with this teams history and current situation:
" Whatever multi-millionaire hockey team owners do, let them do it on their own dime.
This odious $5.7 million guarantee our mayor and council agreed to can only be called THEFT of our tax dollars.
City councils have no business dabbling in bringing big-name entertainment, nor professional sports.
Abbotsford council and staff wanted to play big-shot, with our money. Their only job should be to tend to running a clean, safe, functional city. Parks, rinks and pools for our locals, Yes!! Our taxes to the owners of the Calgary Flames, NO!
Leave professionals to tend to big glamour amusements. They have the expertise, and do not wade into money-losing propositions, unlike our foolish leaders in Abbotsford."
This is from someone who has experience with this type of thing. That tells me I am not at all off base in my opinion about publicly financing any part of this effort.
God luck to the Flames in Utica if this turns out to be true but they need to do it on their own dime. Don't pick my pocket or the pockets of any taxpayers.
First of all LA is lobbying extremely hard for an nfl franchise, I really don't know what planet you live on with that statement but whatever. Just because it hit a recent glitch doesn't mean they don't want one.

Secondly you can cut and paste all of the articles you want. The truth of the matter is the team is coming. Nothing you can do about it other than not attending games or voicing your opinion at the polls come election time. Personally I wish the announcement date would hurry up and get here so I can start 52 threads telling all the naysayers to suck it.
Truth

Utica, NY

#245 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all LA is lobbying extremely hard for an nfl franchise, I really don't know what planet you live on with that statement but whatever. Just because it hit a recent glitch doesn't mean they don't want one.
Secondly you can cut and paste all of the articles you want. The truth of the matter is the team is coming. Nothing you can do about it other than not attending games or voicing your opinion at the polls come election time. Personally I wish the announcement date would hurry up and get here so I can start 52 threads telling all the naysayers to suck it.
So the team is coming. If true that part doesn't matter to me at all. The part that matters is who is ultimately paying for it. I told you. Good luck to all involved. Just do it on your own dime.
Truth

Utica, NY

#246 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all LA is lobbying extremely hard for an nfl franchise, I really don't know what planet you live on with that statement but whatever. Just because it hit a recent glitch doesn't mean they don't want one.
Secondly you can cut and paste all of the articles you want. The truth of the matter is the team is coming. Nothing you can do about it other than not attending games or voicing your opinion at the polls come election time. Personally I wish the announcement date would hurry up and get here so I can start 52 threads telling all the naysayers to suck it.
Please have a look at this story about LA and the NFL
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1556550-nf...

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#247 Mar 7, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
So the team is coming. If true that part doesn't matter to me at all. The part that matters is who is ultimately paying for it. I told you. Good luck to all involved. Just do it on your own dime.
There's not a business in the world that would come to utica exclusively on their own dime. I don't care if your a hockey team or you sell Mexican food. You know it, I know it, and everyone knows it.
Really

Herkimer, NY

#248 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
There's not a business in the world that would come to utica exclusively on their own dime. I don't care if your a hockey team or you sell Mexican food. You know it, I know it, and everyone knows it.
Here's the difference, nimrod. Most businesses hire local employees and contribute to the community. Pro hockey has proven, time and again, that they take the public money and leave the area. It is history that you can't revise with your links.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#249 Mar 7, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the difference, nimrod. Most businesses hire local employees and contribute to the community. Pro hockey has proven, time and again, that they take the public money and leave the area. It is history that you can't revise with your links.
First of all I'm not a nimrod. I'm a realist...like you claim you are. The real situation is to outsiders the region blows to be quite frank. There's nothing there at all. There is no night life. Nothing. Until that image changes the region will NEVER get business' like a chip plant to set up shop there. Will not happen. Until the quality of life increases youre not going to get all of these high paying pipe dream businesses'.

I'm actually surprised at what esche did. The guy loves the area. His family lives there. His wives family lives here. Most people with his money would have packed up shop and split instead of trying to create something.
Truth

Utica, NY

#250 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
There's not a business in the world that would come to utica exclusively on their own dime. I don't care if your a hockey team or you sell Mexican food. You know it, I know it, and everyone knows it.
Not true. Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it simply is not true. I honestly believe you are part of a PR effort to make the idea some form of public financing of this effort more palatable to the public. Not buying and no one else should either. Not when our region is in the financial situation it's in.

Many businesses do not depend on government (taxpayer) handouts for startup. Many use private venture capital and loans. Not every business has their hand out. The problem is that these deals that our representatives make using our money have become so commonplace that you think they are normal and natural. They are not and they need to stop unless it can be proven that the profit in the end will exceed the investment. Locally none of the schemes aided with public funds ever seems to pan out.

Again, bring a hockey team but bring it without and taxpayer subsidy.
Really

Herkimer, NY

#251 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all I'm not a nimrod. I'm a realist...like you claim you are. The real situation is to outsiders the region blows to be quite frank. There's nothing there at all. There is no night life. Nothing. Until that image changes the region will NEVER get business' like a chip plant to set up shop there. Will not happen. Until the quality of life increases youre not going to get all of these high paying pipe dream businesses'.
I'm actually surprised at what esche did. The guy loves the area. His family lives there. His wives family lives here. Most people with his money would have packed up shop and split instead of trying to create something.
So, answer the big question. Is he investing his money in this venture, or just using his name as front for some less than successful 'movers' who are positioning for public financing?

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#252 Mar 7, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true. Doesn't matter how many times you say it, it simply is not true. I honestly believe you are part of a PR effort to make the idea some form of public financing of this effort more palatable to the public. Not buying and no one else should either. Not when our region is in the financial situation it's in.
Many businesses do not depend on government (taxpayer) handouts for startup. Many use private venture capital and loans. Not every business has their hand out. The problem is that these deals that our representatives make using our money have become so commonplace that you think they are normal and natural. They are not and they need to stop unless it can be proven that the profit in the end will exceed the investment. Locally none of the schemes aided with public funds ever seems to pan out.
Again, bring a hockey team but bring it without and taxpayer subsidy.
What I stated is 100 percent true actually.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#253 Mar 7, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So, answer the big question. Is he investing his money in this venture, or just using his name as front for some less than successful 'movers' who are positioning for public financing?
Yes he is investing his own money. Others are investing their own money as well.
Really

Herkimer, NY

#254 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes he is investing his own money. Others are investing their own money as well.
Two questions: what portion of the total investment is private as oppossed to public? and;
Why do you keep refering to Utica Devils as if they were the only pro hockey team to leave Utica? You conveniently omit: MV Comets, MV Stars, MV Prowlers, Utica Blizzard, etc.
Really

Herkimer, NY

#255 Mar 7, 2013
Utica 34.......are you stumped or looking for a link?
Hey roseyglasses

United States

#256 Mar 7, 2013
And after that he can explain away all my points.
sensible guy

Sherburne, NY

#257 Mar 7, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Please have a look at this story about LA and the NFL
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1556550-nf...
The "truth is that the NFL desperately wants a team in LA more so than the fans oddly enough! In perhaps the biggest market what sports league wouldn't want a team there.........

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#258 Mar 7, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Two questions: what portion of the total investment is private as oppossed to public? and;
Why do you keep refering to Utica Devils as if they were the only pro hockey team to leave Utica? You conveniently omit: MV Comets, MV Stars, MV Prowlers, Utica Blizzard, etc.
Not stumped at all. The stars morphed into the comets, same ownership...same team...different name, then the league was put into suspended operations when the utica devils put their affiliation here. From 1981 to 1993 utica had professional hockey at the aud and was successful.

The bulldogs, prowlers, and blizzard were teams all run buy underfunded and under financed owners in extremely sub par leagues and depended solely on attendance to make payroll. Those teams garnered zero support from the public in my opinion because of being soiled by ahl quality hockey.

Any other questions?
Really

Herkimer, NY

#259 Mar 7, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not stumped at all. The stars morphed into the comets, same ownership...same team...different name, then the league was put into suspended operations when the utica devils put their affiliation here. From 1981 to 1993 utica had professional hockey at the aud and was successful.
The bulldogs, prowlers, and blizzard were teams all run buy underfunded and under financed owners in extremely sub par leagues and depended solely on attendance to make payroll. Those teams garnered zero support from the public in my opinion because of being soiled by ahl quality hockey.
Any other questions?
No; no further questions. It is time for me to withdraw from this sparring match with you. We are truly on different planes here. Our understanding of the word "successful" differs vastly. I cannot seem to bring you out of your rope-a-dope tactic in dealing with the question of public financing. So, for now, I must be content until someone with the courage to answer presents himself.

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#260 Mar 7, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
No; no further questions. It is time for me to withdraw from this sparring match with you. We are truly on different planes here. Our understanding of the word "successful" differs vastly. I cannot seem to bring you out of your rope-a-dope tactic in dealing with the question of public financing. So, for now, I must be content until someone with the courage to answer presents himself.
I answered all of your questions. A successful team is a team that is profitable and up until the bulldogs and the two other ridiculous debacles that took the ice in utica they were.

As far as the public financing...stay tuned.
The Cretin

Gouverneur, NY

#261 Mar 8, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
No; no further questions. It is time for me to withdraw from this sparring match with you. We are truly on different planes here. Our understanding of the word "successful" differs vastly. I cannot seem to bring you out of your rope-a-dope tactic in dealing with the question of public financing. So, for now, I must be content until someone with the courage to answer presents himself.
What's like nailing a jelly fish to the wall.......talking with the imbecile..........Cretin!

Utica34
Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Albany, NY

#262 Mar 8, 2013
The Cretin wrote:
<quoted text>
What's like nailing a jelly fish to the wall.......talking with the imbecile..........Cretin!
I wish under the judge it tab there was a symbol for idiot.
The Cretin

Gouverneur, NY

#263 Mar 8, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish under the judge it tab there was a symbol for idiot.
It would be a picture of you..........Cretin!

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