Uticahockeyfanat ic

Utica, NY

#183 Mar 2, 2013
Utica 34, I give you alot of credit going back and forth with some of these people on here..I for one am excited, its sad to see how many people jump on the bandwagon and knock something good before it even starts. And people wonder why this area is so depressed, look at some of the ridiculous comments on here from people who are worried about wasting taxpayer dollars. I have to laugh because theres alot bigger waste of taxpayer dollars going on everyday in Utica...some examples, hmmm maybe the arterial (12) mess, oh and lets plant grass on Gnessee Street and create median in the middle, oh and how about some of the backroom deals for contractors that do work for the utica School District! Look, bottom line, I hope this deal goes through, I hope we get an AHL team back. Not everyone has to like it, or support it, but give it a chance. Common Utica, lets get excited about this. Lets support the Flames...Lets Make this team a success!
yeah

Utica, NY

#184 Mar 2, 2013
Uticahockeyfanatic wrote:
Utica 34, I give you alot of credit going back and forth with some of these people on here..I for one am excited, its sad to see how many people jump on the bandwagon and knock something good before it even starts. And people wonder why this area is so depressed, look at some of the ridiculous comments on here from people who are worried about wasting taxpayer dollars. I have to laugh because theres alot bigger waste of taxpayer dollars going on everyday in Utica...some examples, hmmm maybe the arterial (12) mess, oh and lets plant grass on Gnessee Street and create median in the middle, oh and how about some of the backroom deals for contractors that do work for the utica School District! Look, bottom line, I hope this deal goes through, I hope we get an AHL team back. Not everyone has to like it, or support it, but give it a chance. Common Utica, lets get excited about this. Lets support the Flames...Lets Make this team a success!
Let's hope the investors put up their money and make a big profit. Let's hope it doesn't take a king's ransom in tax dollars for another pro hockey boondoggle that stays only until the public funds run out.
Da Law

Ilion, NY

#185 Mar 2, 2013
Uticahockeyfanatic wrote:
Utica 34, I give you alot of credit going back and forth with some of these people on here..I for one am excited, its sad to see how many people jump on the bandwagon and knock something good before it even starts.
I don't think anyone is knocking the idea of having a hockey team. What they're objecting to is spending piles of tax dollars for it.
And people wonder why this area is so depressed...
Yes, obviously our biggest problem in attracting business to the area is our lack of a hockey team. It has nothing to do with the decrepit sewer system leaking into the rivers, the goat paths that pass for roads, or one of the highest tax loads in the nation.
I have to laugh because theres alot bigger waste of taxpayer dollars going on everyday in Utica...some examples, hmmm maybe the arterial (12) mess, oh and lets plant grass on Gnessee Street and create median in the middle, oh and how about some of the backroom deals for contractors that do work for the utica School District!
So you're well aware of the area's history of graft and corruption, but this particular backroom deal filled with millions in potential graft and corruption is great because...Hockey!
Common Utica, lets get excited about this. Lets support the Flames...Lets Make this team a success!
Couldn't the owners make the team a success without, you know, public money?

This whole thing is eerily reminiscent of the arena football debacle at the Aud. How'd that work out?
Da Law

Ilion, NY

#186 Mar 2, 2013
yeah wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's hope the investors put up their money and make a big profit. Let's hope it doesn't take a king's ransom in tax dollars for another pro hockey boondoggle that stays only until the public funds run out.
See, that's the thing that gets me. If this truly is a fantastic idea, why can't it be done with the investor's own money? If they were doing it solely out of their own pockets I'd be right on board the rah-rah train. Yeah, team! Who wouldn't want it to be successful?

The fact that they're not willing to do it without a huge public payout raises understandable doubts. If they're not convinced it's a sure thing, how can anyone else be?
Level 3

Since: Jul 12

Seymour, CT

#187 Mar 2, 2013
everyones flipping out and there has been absolutly no official anouncment of a ahl team coming. until that time and the facts are revealed why dosnt everyone calm down and go on about their lives like normal?? i hope a ahl team comes, do i want the public to pay for it?? no i dont. who will it benefit?? local hotels, resturants and the fans who attend the games. from my experiance with teams in utica, the biggest problem has been underfunded owners and the lack of ability to draw fans on weeknights. this team like all the rest will draw fans in droves if it wins on the ice. the devils were more a development team than about winning like some other ahl franchises such as hershey and chicago. if the team wins it will make it, if it looses its gonna be in trouble.abbotsford current record is 27-22 and 62 points.
Flames Facebook

Camillus, NY

#189 Mar 2, 2013
Another place to comment on the new Utica Flames Hockey Team:
https://www.facebook.com/UticaFlamesFanClub
Truth

Utica, NY

#190 Mar 3, 2013
Uticahockeyfanatic wrote:
Utica 34, I give you alot of credit going back and forth with some of these people on here..I for one am excited, its sad to see how many people jump on the bandwagon and knock something good before it even starts. And people wonder why this area is so depressed, look at some of the ridiculous comments on here from people who are worried about wasting taxpayer dollars. I have to laugh because theres alot bigger waste of taxpayer dollars going on everyday in Utica...some examples, hmmm maybe the arterial (12) mess, oh and lets plant grass on Gnessee Street and create median in the middle, oh and how about some of the backroom deals for contractors that do work for the utica School District! Look, bottom line, I hope this deal goes through, I hope we get an AHL team back. Not everyone has to like it, or support it, but give it a chance. Common Utica, lets get excited about this. Lets support the Flames...Lets Make this team a success!
I think everyone joins in wishing them success if this indeed turns out to be true. You mistake negativism with the lack of enthusiasm for investing( and I use that term loosely) tax dollars in another venture that first, only benefits a small minority of the population and second, will certainly not lead to an economic resurgence for the area.

I'm all for an AHL team. I am a hockey fan. I went to many Utica Devils games as well as many of the failures that followed. I just want a venture like this to succeed or fail on its' own without reaching in the pockets of taxpayers.

The Stanley Theater backstage expansion was publicly funded to the tune of millions. The Stanley Theater is entertainment and serves only a small minority of the population of the area. We wer told at the time that it was a good investment and that the expansion was key to turning Utica around. Here we are a few years later. The last I read attendance was 40%+ below projections and that they would no longer be booking shows. They will rely on outside promoters to do that. Great "investment" huh? I think that if this turns out to be true and they want taxpayer funding we can expect a lot of the same rhetoric in the near future. When and if you hear it think about the Stanley, the roundabout, Hotel Utica, the City Center, the Utica National building..... and all of the rest of the black holes that the taxpayers have poured their money into over the last 25 years. Can anyone say with a straight face that any of these has been the success they were touted to be? Obviously not.

I think Utica34 has a horse in this race and stands to benefit somehow if a team does come. That is the motive for the posts. My motive is to see that my taxes don't go up year after year while I'm getting less services and at the same time financing entertainment for the few.

I'm for an AHL team and against public funding to get them here. Let them sink or swim on their own.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#191 Mar 3, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I think everyone joins in wishing them success if this indeed turns out to be true. You mistake negativism with the lack of enthusiasm for investing( and I use that term loosely) tax dollars in another venture that first, only benefits a small minority of the population and second, will certainly not lead to an economic resurgence for the area.
I'm all for an AHL team. I am a hockey fan. I went to many Utica Devils games as well as many of the failures that followed. I just want a venture like this to succeed or fail on its' own without reaching in the pockets of taxpayers.
The Stanley Theater backstage expansion was publicly funded to the tune of millions. The Stanley Theater is entertainment and serves only a small minority of the population of the area. We wer told at the time that it was a good investment and that the expansion was key to turning Utica around. Here we are a few years later. The last I read attendance was 40%+ below projections and that they would no longer be booking shows. They will rely on outside promoters to do that. Great "investment" huh? I think that if this turns out to be true and they want taxpayer funding we can expect a lot of the same rhetoric in the near future. When and if you hear it think about the Stanley, the roundabout, Hotel Utica, the City Center, the Utica National building..... and all of the rest of the black holes that the taxpayers have poured their money into over the last 25 years. Can anyone say with a straight face that any of these has been the success they were touted to be? Obviously not.
I think Utica34 has a horse in this race and stands to benefit somehow if a team does come. That is the motive for the posts. My motive is to see that my taxes don't go up year after year while I'm getting less services and at the same time financing entertainment for the few.
I'm for an AHL team and against public funding to get them here. Let them sink or swim on their own.
I don't have a horse in the race actually and in case I haven't made this clear before...the deal is already done. So people can debate what they want or don't want all they want and I will advise them to just watch the news...more specifically towards the tail end of this month.:)
Truth

Utica, NY

#192 Mar 4, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have a horse in the race actually and in case I haven't made this clear before...the deal is already done. So people can debate what they want or don't want all they want and I will advise them to just watch the news...more specifically towards the tail end of this month.:)
We see no proof of a deal except what you've posted. The original story was pulled by the OD and and everyone including the Flames denies it.

I just hope that if true no tax dollars are provided for this.

I understand that The Upper Mohawk Valley Memorial Auditorium Authority is autonomous pretty much when it comes to borrowing. Authorities throughout New York were created for that reason. They may borrow(bond) without legislative approval. The problem I have with that is ultimately it is public debt and the taxpayers of Oneida County are on the hook for it. I hope that the County Executive, who in my opinion doesn't seem to have much in the common sense department, and the Aud Authority understand that the taxpayers can no longer afford these type of things.

Best of luck to the Utica Flames if they decide they want to make an investment in the area. I applaud that. I'm just hoping they don't have their hands out and if they do that our local representation is smart enough to just shake that outstreached hand and send them on their way.

Hockey teams don't bring businesses and jobs, lower taxes do.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#193 Mar 4, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
We see no proof of a deal except what you've posted. The original story was pulled by the OD and and everyone including the Flames denies it.
I just hope that if true no tax dollars are provided for this.
I understand that The Upper Mohawk Valley Memorial Auditorium Authority is autonomous pretty much when it comes to borrowing. Authorities throughout New York were created for that reason. They may borrow(bond) without legislative approval. The problem I have with that is ultimately it is public debt and the taxpayers of Oneida County are on the hook for it. I hope that the County Executive, who in my opinion doesn't seem to have much in the common sense department, and the Aud Authority understand that the taxpayers can no longer afford these type of things.
Best of luck to the Utica Flames if they decide they want to make an investment in the area. I applaud that. I'm just hoping they don't have their hands out and if they do that our local representation is smart enough to just shake that outstreached hand and send them on their way.
Hockey teams don't bring businesses and jobs, lower taxes do.
The team will be just fine. Just wait until the end of the month.

Will you be attending the games this fall?
Mike C

Cortland, NY

#194 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
The team will be just fine. Just wait until the end of the month.
Doesn't the failure of the fan drive on Facebook pretty conclusively demonstrate what everyone said? That there's only a small core of diehard fans? If you can't even get 2000 people to click "Like" how can you expect 3000 to pony up $20 a game?

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#195 Mar 5, 2013
Mike C wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the failure of the fan drive on Facebook pretty conclusively demonstrate what everyone said? That there's only a small core of diehard fans? If you can't even get 2000 people to click "Like" how can you expect 3000 to pony up $20 a game?
Absolutely not. I must ask you, other than here where did you see any evidence of a "fan drive"?

Will you be attending th games this fall?
Mike C

Cortland, NY

#196 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely not. I must ask you, other than here where did you see any evidence of a "fan drive"?
Will you be attending th games this fall?
Dude, it's a disastrous failure that you were spamming right up until the last minute.

So is Esche going to be answering questions despite the massive shortfall of fans?

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#197 Mar 5, 2013
Mike C wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude, it's a disastrous failure that you were spamming right up until the last minute.
So is Esche going to be answering questions despite the massive shortfall of fans?
Disastrous failure? Massive shortfall? Stop please you're making me laugh. As far as esche, I have no idea what he plans to do. However I do know what he'll be doing at the end of the month.

Will you be coming to some games this fall?
Mike C

Cortland, NY

#198 Mar 5, 2013
So Esche is going to be going to be scarce until the end of the month?

There are some great questions on that Facebook page he really needs to answer. Despite the fan drive not meeting it's goal, of course.

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#199 Mar 5, 2013
Mike C wrote:
So Esche is going to be going to be scarce until the end of the month?
There are some great questions on that Facebook page he really needs to answer. Despite the fan drive not meeting it's goal, of course.
Actually he doesn't NEED to answer anything at this point he doesn't want to. Feeling a little sense of self entitlement are we?

1700 likes on an unadvertised page is pretty darn good. People miss their goals all the time.

So will you be attending the games in the fall?
Truth

Utica, NY

#200 Mar 5, 2013
Moody's rating agency downgraded Utica's credit rating according to the OD. That means that an borrowing to cover shotfalls will be at a higher ineterest rate.

Oneida County balance their budget by borrowing millions to cover the pension contributions. Smoke and mirrors. Even though the Aud Authority is not directly under the supervision of the county most of the members as well as the director are appointed by the county and any bonding(borrowing) they do is ultimately taxpayer debt.

Taking these things into account, does it sound like we as taxpayers are in a position to give even one red cent to this effort?

If this turns out to be true and if any part is funded with taxpayer subsidy then no, I will not attend any games. I would hope that anyone who feels the same and understands that we as an area are in the fiscal position we are at least partially because of subsidies, would do the same. If there are no public funds of any kind used then yes I would love to go see the games and would hope that they are wildly succesful. They need to sink or swim on their own though.

How many of those 1700 Facebook likes are from high schoolers who don't pay taxes or hockey fans who aren't thinking about that aspect?

Level 4

Since: Feb 13

Schenectady, NY

#201 Mar 5, 2013
Truth wrote:
Moody's rating agency downgraded Utica's credit rating according to the OD. That means that an borrowing to cover shotfalls will be at a higher ineterest rate.
Oneida County balance their budget by borrowing millions to cover the pension contributions. Smoke and mirrors. Even though the Aud Authority is not directly under the supervision of the county most of the members as well as the director are appointed by the county and any bonding(borrowing) they do is ultimately taxpayer debt.
Taking these things into account, does it sound like we as taxpayers are in a position to give even one red cent to this effort?
If this turns out to be true and if any part is funded with taxpayer subsidy then no, I will not attend any games. I would hope that anyone who feels the same and understands that we as an area are in the fiscal position we are at least partially because of subsidies, would do the same. If there are no public funds of any kind used then yes I would love to go see the games and would hope that they are wildly succesful. They need to sink or swim on their own though.
How many of those 1700 Facebook likes are from high schoolers who don't pay taxes or hockey fans who aren't thinking about that aspect?
I hope you don't support anything else that's government supported...lets say something like schools. How about all the citizens that pay school tax that don't have any children? Or children that already graduated?

You'll be missing some wonderful hockey this fall. Hopefully you make it to the aud.
Really

Utica, NY

#202 Mar 5, 2013
Utica34 wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you don't support anything else that's government supported...lets say something like schools. How about all the citizens that pay school tax that don't have any children? Or children that already graduated?
You'll be missing some wonderful hockey this fall. Hopefully you make it to the aud.
Your delusional rantings are coming to the surface when you compare investing taxpayer money in minor league hockey to schools and educating our children. That screams intellectual disconnect at the highest level.LOL
move on

Yorkville, NY

#203 Mar 5, 2013
Not happening ladies - move on to the next Topic. Was considered a rumor as of this morning.
not that i wouldn't support it, but just sayin, move on...

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