Public Employees Get Cadillac Pensions?

Posted in the Utica Forum

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Taxpayer

Rome, NY

#1 Feb 19, 2013
What's up with this?
fred

Windsor, CT

#2 Feb 19, 2013
y you jealous creep, we paid into the system and the state comptroller invested the money wisely and built the system up to millions, he didnt do it with your advice or help.Now we reap the profits so what is it your business. A retired state worker is not living on your tax mopney at this time .He is funded by the solvent pension system that is invested heavely in the stock market and other invesments.So screw off you bum...
Right Said Fred

Utica, NY

#3 Feb 19, 2013
Well said fred!
What Fred Said

Utica, NY

#4 Feb 19, 2013
I totally agree.
State pensioner

Utica, NY

#5 Feb 19, 2013
I owe you NOTHING!!!
Truth

Utica, NY

#6 Feb 20, 2013
fred wrote:
y you jealous creep, we paid into the system and the state comptroller invested the money wisely and built the system up to millions, he didnt do it with your advice or help.Now we reap the profits so what is it your business. A retired state worker is not living on your tax mopney at this time .He is funded by the solvent pension system that is invested heavely in the stock market and other invesments.So screw off you bum...
You are half wrong. Yes you paid into the system. Yes some of what keeps the system going is revenue from investment. No it is not just employee contributions and investment returns that keep the pension system going.

You've paid less by far than the annual contributions of the taxpayers to your retirement. When the economy tanked and there was very little or no money to be made in investments it was the taxpayers who ponyed up the difference to keep the pension system flush.

Then, consider that when the pension benefits are disbursed to retirees they are New York State tax exempt.

The state retirement system has become a burden to the taxpayers and cannot be sustained. Haven't you been paying attention? Didn't you see Governor Cuomo's proposal for spreading out the tax savings created by Tier 6 over the next 25 years rather than waiting?
strange facts

Utica, NY

#7 Feb 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>You are half wrong. Yes you paid into the system. Yes some of what keeps the system going is revenue from investment. No it is not just employee contributions and investment returns that keep the pension system going.

You've paid less by far than the annual contributions of the taxpayers to your retirement. When the economy tanked and there was very little or no money to be made in investments it was the taxpayers who ponyed up the difference to keep the pension system flush.

Then, consider that when the pension benefits are disbursed to retirees they are New York State tax exempt.

The state retirement system has become a burden to the taxpayers and cannot be sustained. Haven't you been paying attention? Didn't you see Governor Cuomo's proposal for spreading out the tax savings created by Tier 6 over the next 25 years rather than waiting?
The state pension is largely subsidized by the taxpayers. The percentage being paid out in benefits is far greater than what's actually being earned as a return. The fact is, under ordinary circumstances, if it wasn't for the taxpayers, the "money manager" would be fired for making poor investment decisions. It's not self-sustaining. Government and money do not mix.
Wrong

Rome, NY

#8 Feb 20, 2013
It's not State Employees, but local municipalities dragging down the NYS ERS. Carl McCall had the system solvent for decades to come. There are billions in the fund. It's why the State wants to raid it for its pet projects. It's been shown solvent once again. People believe the hype about pension padding and overtime. Newsflash, there is only so much overtime because the State runs so many agencies short staffed.

The media love to pluck out one or two people who slammed OT and made bocoup bucks then make them out to be some sort of millionaire playboy who never works.
strange facts

Utica, NY

#9 Feb 20, 2013
Wrong wrote:
It's not State Employees, but local municipalities dragging down the NYS ERS. Carl McCall had the system solvent for decades to come. There are billions in the fund. It's why the State wants to raid it for its pet projects. It's been shown solvent once again. People believe the hype about pension padding and overtime. Newsflash, there is only so much overtime because the State runs so many agencies short staffed.

The media love to pluck out one or two people who slammed OT and made bocoup bucks then make them out to be some sort of millionaire playboy who never works.
And just how are local municipalities dragging it down? Why, because they are being forced to pass massive costs on to the taxpayers for mismanagement!
Truth

Utica, NY

#10 Feb 20, 2013
strange facts wrote:
<quoted text>
The state pension is largely subsidized by the taxpayers. The percentage being paid out in benefits is far greater than what's actually being earned as a return. The fact is, under ordinary circumstances, if it wasn't for the taxpayers, the "money manager" would be fired for making poor investment decisions. It's not self-sustaining. Government and money do not mix.
Absolutely.

I've had this conversation with state employees and have seen the opinion expressed above about investment returns and employee contributions funding the pension system in many other places. It amazes me that they could be so uninformed. I can only guess that their main source of information is their union rep and union newletter.
face facts

New York, NY

#11 Feb 20, 2013
The fact that public employees entire compensation is derived from tax dollars means they paid nothing into the pension system at all. Not a penny. The taxpayers did 100%.
Truth

Utica, NY

#12 Feb 20, 2013
face facts wrote:
The fact that public employees entire compensation is derived from tax dollars means they paid nothing into the pension system at all. Not a penny. The taxpayers did 100%.
Right on point.

A healthy public sector relies on a healthy private sector for funding. With the size, scope and expense of the public sector we now have in New York, private sector business cannot succeed.

Many seem to deny this simple fact. There is no public sector (and their compensation/benefits) without taxes collected from the private sector.
Southern Avenger

Utica, NY

#13 Feb 20, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Right on point.
A healthy public sector relies on a healthy private sector for funding. With the size, scope and expense of the public sector we now have in New York, private sector business cannot succeed.
Many seem to deny this simple fact. There is no public sector (and their compensation/benefits) without taxes collected from the private sector.
we have a private sector?
Southern Avenger

Utica, NY

#14 Feb 20, 2013
the private sector:

where you give up half your income to Uncle Sam and NYS.(think HUD, EDGE)

15% of the value of your property to the city and state and county (think every year)

9.5% of everything you buy.(think Toilet Paper Tax, Car Tax, Bread Tax,

5% Tax if you sleep in a hotel

5% Tax if you drive to another city (think tolls)

50% Gas Tax (as if the gov'ts hadn't gotten enough)

Compare to The PUBLIC Sector:

I'll let them fill in their gripes here:

()
face facts

New York, NY

#15 Feb 20, 2013
Southern Avenger wrote:
<quoted text>
we have a private sector?
Given the overwhelming size of the public sector locally, your sarcastic comment is warranted and quite truthful. Statistics show our area heavy in the public sector and increasing in that direction. Hard for any private sector to flourish here with such a tax burden as that.

Its not to say we don't need the public sector, but we don't need as much as we have. As it is now, there is not the economy generated by the private sector locally to sustain it. How much of our public is subsidized by other funding like State and Federal funding? That should be an obvious sign of financial trouble yet our local misleaders think more government agencies like EDGE is the answer to our economic problems. All that does it take more money out of the economy, not add to it.
fred

Windsor, CT

#16 Feb 20, 2013
Dont forget that public employees pay taxes too. Federal. State income gas. Property. Sales. .what are we exempt. You got to be kidding about public employees getting a free ride.You need public employees Imagine if you contracted out snow plowing to private contractors to plow the streets.You wouldnt have enough to pay them.How about hiring private to police with a profit.It would go through the roof. A good example is electric rates as a national grid or Ilion as a municipal owned. Who is cheaper.
Hey Fred

Canandaigua, NY

#17 Feb 20, 2013
Utica can afford a volunteer police force and a volunteer fire department and no pensions. Show me where they can afford pensions of any sort. They can't. Unions have bullied politicians for decades to sell the farm and give them all the money.

If Utica burned to the ground, it would be worth more than it is today if you add the cost of pensions.
face facts

New York, NY

#18 Feb 20, 2013
fred wrote:
Dont forget that public employees pay taxes too. Federal. State income gas. Property. Sales..what are we exempt. You got to be kidding about public employees getting a free ride.You need public employees Imagine if you contracted out snow plowing to private contractors to plow the streets.You wouldnt have enough to pay them.How about hiring private to police with a profit.It would go through the roof. A good example is electric rates as a national grid or Ilion as a municipal owned. Who is cheaper.
Um, public employees are paying taxes with money given to them from, TAXES! Its money laundering.
Truth

Utica, NY

#19 Feb 20, 2013
fred wrote:
Dont forget that public employees pay taxes too. Federal. State income gas. Property. Sales..what are we exempt. You got to be kidding about public employees getting a free ride.You need public employees Imagine if you contracted out snow plowing to private contractors to plow the streets.You wouldnt have enough to pay them.How about hiring private to police with a profit.It would go through the roof. A good example is electric rates as a national grid or Ilion as a municipal owned. Who is cheaper.
If we hired private sector contractors to plow the the streets and other tasks currently carried out by the union dominated public sector here's what we would see.

We would create a contract with a specified term, specified equipment, specified maximum contract amount and a minimum set of expectations. We would require a performance bond so that we the taxpayers would not be held liable in the case of non-performance by the contractor.

We would no longer have:
-Public sector employees that we pay even when there is no work for them.
-The giant contributions to employee healthcare and pensions that go up and up every year.
-Public sector union employees that are very difficult to fire even in the most extreme cases.
-The expense of buying and maintaining equipment associated with whatever task is contracted.

Your Ilion example is not a good one. Contain your thinking to the public sector contracting for services with the private sector. A better example is Birnie Bus. How many school districts(public sector) contract with Birnie Bus rather than having the expense of all of the equipment and personnel? Quite a few. The reason for that is because it costs less than the union employee dominated model.

It may not be possible to contract for many tasks like public safety but we should at least be able to have the conversations rather than being beaten down by union rhetoric about how bad it would be.

Take the snowplowing example. How about consolidation? All snowplowing to be performed by a regional DPW. One administration. One pay/benefit schedule. One work schedule. Get rid of all of the little "kingdoms". How about a consolidated regional police force. We now pay for State police, County Sheriffs, Town police and sometimes village police. How about one administration? One set of standards? One pay/benefit schedule?

I'm for more contracting to the private sector but I'm not hopeful because no one even wants to entertain the possibility of consolidation of what we have let alone relinquishing control to the private sector.
Truth

Utica, NY

#20 Feb 20, 2013
face facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Um, public employees are paying taxes with money given to them from, TAXES! Its money laundering.
Someone once described the flow of money in the public sector as circular. The same money going around and around. Without new private sector money entering the circle the math doesn't work.

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