Elgin teachers return to negotiating ...

Elgin teachers return to negotiating table

There are 26 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Oct 17, 2007, titled Elgin teachers return to negotiating table. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

Meeting for the first time since voting down a tentative agreement, teachers in Elgin-based Unit School District 46 gathered Wednesday afternoon to discuss their options.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

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U-46 parent

Westmont, IL

#1 Oct 18, 2007
U46 residents need a better understanding of the entire teacher compensation package - and the newspapers should be providing this information. The district won't provide this information because keeping the taxpayer in the dark allows U46 to continue its' taxpayer abussive ways.

Why not also provide information on what a retiring teacher typically makes in salary, pension, medical retirement and what the typical retirement age is to collect these benefits. Then also note how many workdays they put in a year, or better yet how many vacation and sick days they get in a year and how those are paid out.

If the taxpayers truely understood all the facts here, they'd better understand that U46 is about educator jobs and enrichment and not about the kids. Kids are only the means by which educators use to achieve personal enrichment goals.
John Doh

Chicago, IL

#2 Oct 18, 2007
Yeah, none of the U-46 teachers care about the kids at ALL! All they care about is themselves and getting rich off the tax payers!
You are clueless U-46 Parent!
U-46 parent

Westmont, IL

#3 Oct 18, 2007
John Doh wrote:
Yeah, none of the U-46 teachers care about the kids at ALL! All they care about is themselves and getting rich off the tax payers!
You are clueless U-46 Parent!
First, about 80% of my $7,000 real estate taxes goes to U46, SO THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME CLUELESS. Property taxes are going up 7% annualy and my income goes up 3% annually - and I don't have a clue? Yes, corporate america gives workers one increase a year, not 2 like teachers get (cola and step increases). And, I'll bet most parents don't know what step increases are all about!

Second, when has the U46 Board or Mr. Prince (the CFO) published AN UNDERSTANDABLE, INFORMATIVE AND COMPREHENSIVE summary of teacher pay and benefits and perks which presents the entire picture of facts and presented them to the taxpayer to promote understanding? TRY NEVER! And why not? Maybe for the same reason they did not tell us about what Connie Neale and Mr. Edwards (remember him!) got and then she leaves town. You must be another militant teacher who is chomping at the bit to go on strike for the benefit of the childen! If corporate america employees went on strike, the CEO would give you directions to the local unemployment office, irregardless of your success or tenure at the company. Let's outsource education!!
Double D

United States

#4 Oct 18, 2007
U-46 parent

I don't think the U-46 teachers want to go on strike. Corporate America? Take a look at the UAW. The teacher compensation packages are public record. You can look up salary schedules on line. Guess what? You get what you pay for.
Do you think teachers like driving to work past districts that pay $20,000 more ? If education was outsourced teachers would be paid MORE, don't you think
Where is all the anger from the public stemming from? When was it O.K. to be so disrespectful as some posters have been when responding to other articles like this?
There are two sides to every opinion, and teachers are taxpayers too. Lastly, I suspect that if you had a teaching degree, your attitude might be different
Granny u46 senior

United States

#5 Oct 18, 2007
U-46 parent wrote:
<quoted text>
First, about 80% of my $7,000 real estate taxes goes to U46, SO THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME CLUELESS. Property taxes are going up 7% annualy and my income goes up 3% annually - and I don't have a clue? Yes, corporate america gives workers one increase a year, not 2 like teachers get (cola and step increases). And, I'll bet most parents don't know what step increases are all about!
Second, when has the U46 Board or Mr. Prince (the CFO) published AN UNDERSTANDABLE, INFORMATIVE AND COMPREHENSIVE summary of teacher pay and benefits and perks which presents the entire picture of facts and presented them to the taxpayer to promote understanding? TRY NEVER! And why not? Maybe for the same reason they did not tell us about what Connie Neale and Mr. Edwards (remember him!) got and then she leaves town. You must be another militant teacher who is chomping at the bit to go on strike for the benefit of the childen! If corporate america employees went on strike, the CEO would give you directions to the local unemployment office, irregardless of your success or tenure at the company. Let's outsource education!!
Yes, my real estate taxes are going up faster than increases I get from Social Security - and most of it goes to U46 that's for sure. And you are right! How long does John Duh think taxes can increase faster than the income of U46 residents before it hurts the general residents of the district? U46 reminds me of the big three automakers before the Asians entered the US market. They don't want competition, protect the status quo, turn out a low quailty product, pass on their legacy costs even if they are out of step with the times and as always create resentment by overpaying thosw who are at the top. If we can't fix education then I think America can't fix anything.
My own grandaughter tells me about school, and it seems that textbooks and the classroom experience are little changed form 50 years ago What happened to American ingenuity?
U46 resident

United States

#6 Oct 18, 2007
Double D wrote:
U-46 parent
I don't think the U-46 teachers want to go on strike. Corporate America? Take a look at the UAW. The teacher compensation packages are public record. You can look up salary schedules on line. Guess what? You get what you pay for.
Do you think teachers like driving to work past districts that pay $20,000 more ? If education was outsourced teachers would be paid MORE, don't you think
Where is all the anger from the public stemming from? When was it O.K. to be so disrespectful as some posters have been when responding to other articles like this?
There are two sides to every opinion, and teachers are taxpayers too. Lastly, I suspect that if you had a teaching degree, your attitude might be different
I wish I did have a teaching degree, then I too could have an early retirement, not worry about my medical coverage in retirement, and not accept investment risks that come with 401k plans. Not to mention the long summers I have off before retirement!!! For those reasons we have pushed our daughter to become a teacher because the corporate work of at will employees (not union employees) has become very difficult. Do you think I like driving by a teachers house knowing that their compensation package offers more security and the ability to enjoy life while still young and healthy?
Double D

United States

#7 Oct 18, 2007
Granny,

Lets see I I follow your point. Teachers do the same thing that they did 50 years ago(which is not true), but student performance is dropping. HMMMMMMMM?
U46 resident

United States

#8 Oct 18, 2007
Double D wrote:
U-46 parent
I don't think the U-46 teachers want to go on strike. Corporate America? Take a look at the UAW. The teacher compensation packages are public record. You can look up salary schedules on line. Guess what? You get what you pay for.
Do you think teachers like driving to work past districts that pay $20,000 more ? If education was outsourced teachers would be paid MORE, don't you think
Where is all the anger from the public stemming from? When was it O.K. to be so disrespectful as some posters have been when responding to other articles like this?
There are two sides to every opinion, and teachers are taxpayers too. Lastly, I suspect that if you had a teaching degree, your attitude might be different
No teahcer wants to go on strike, but they do from time to time as is the case in Illinois right now. Teachers should be prhobited by law from striking. If you care about the kids there should be a fair aritration process set up - but let's not disrupt the education of the children!

And I hate to tell you this but the UAW is not at all representative of corporate america. In fact unions outside of govenment has been in deline for several years and now are mnearly insignificant in the provate labor force. Most of corpotate america empoyees are at will employees whcih means we can be fired without cause and no reason has to even be provided - even for courtesy sake. This shows you are a teacher and really out of touch with the rest of the world.
U46 resident

United States

#9 Oct 18, 2007
Double D wrote:
U-46 parent
I don't think the U-46 teachers want to go on strike. Corporate America? Take a look at the UAW. The teacher compensation packages are public record. You can look up salary schedules on line. Guess what? You get what you pay for.
Do you think teachers like driving to work past districts that pay $20,000 more ? If education was outsourced teachers would be paid MORE, don't you think
Where is all the anger from the public stemming from? When was it O.K. to be so disrespectful as some posters have been when responding to other articles like this?
There are two sides to every opinion, and teachers are taxpayers too. Lastly, I suspect that if you had a teaching degree, your attitude might be different
You asked where all the anger is stemming from. Well let me tell you. My company's health plan costs my family of three $700 a month in premiums I pay and that's with a 2K deductible per person. How does the teacher plan compare - put down facts not emotion please. My retirement health care is Medicare and whatever Medigap plan I purchase. How about you the teacher?

I get to retire at age 66 if my 401k investments hold up and if not, I work until I am physically able to do work - like it or not. Lay down your teacher pension in comparison please! What is the normal age U46 teachers retire at?

I get 3 weeks vacation after 7 years of employement and no more than one week can be taken at a time. In additon I get 7 paid holidays, and 5 sick days per year which can not be rolled over. Please give us the facts as to how a veteran teacher would compare to this?

I do not get paid for all the extra time I put in, including weekends. This may be the only area we have in common. I can be fired without cause or the company can be merged or acquired and lose my job that way as well - which has happened. Now compare that to teacher tenure and its' rules to protect you!

I have accountability thru management goals I must annually attain. If they are not met, I am fired, unless there is some extenuating circumstances out of my control. What are your goals?

I could go on but I hope you and readers of this response get the point. Now, put down your factual answers to the points I raise so readers can see for themselves who has the better deal. One final note, when the economy recedes, you will find corporate professionals working at Home Depot for $10/ hour to survive. How many teachers would find thenselves in that position?
Double D

United States

#10 Oct 18, 2007
U-46 Resident,

I sincerely wish you had a job that gave you all that you want. I think most Illinois teachers go out a 60 or 62 depending on how many years of service they had. If you drove by my house I wouldn't be there because I'd be at my second job. I pay SS tax there in return for a reduced SS payment later. Please don't begrudge me for wanting a comfortable life, and I will wish you the same.
Double D

United States

#11 Oct 18, 2007
Oh U-46 parent,

I did forget to respond to that little dig about goals. I have goals and goals are given to me. Some work out and some don't. One of my goals is to help kids dig out of the generational poverty that they have been handed. That one is more important than any of the stuff I read on here. And believe me it is a more powerful motivator than the prospect of a larger raise or avoiding the disdain of my fellow citizens. Please point your fingers where they belong. Your anger is not well spent attacking teachers. Would you altruistically turn down a bigger raise for the good of the common woman or man?
U46 resident

United States

#12 Oct 18, 2007
Double D wrote:
U-46 Resident,
I sincerely wish you had a job that gave you all that you want. I think most Illinois teachers go out a 60 or 62 depending on how many years of service they had. If you drove by my house I wouldn't be there because I'd be at my second job. I pay SS tax there in return for a reduced SS payment later. Please don't begrudge me for wanting a comfortable life, and I will wish you the same.
I like your reply but you have cowered away from presenting some facts here about your cost for medical premiums and the other matters I raised. You did so because it would have brought to the surface what a sweet deal teachers and educators have, and your ignorance to what is going on in the corporate world. Oh I forgot to mention , my employer offers no disability insurance and my empolyer contribution to my 401k last year was $300. Think I can live on that? How much did U46 conribute to your pension last year?
Double D

United States

#13 Oct 18, 2007
I'm sorry U-46 PARENT,

My last Post was to be addressed to u-46 RESIDENT

I don't read so good, cause i attended u-46
U46 resident

United States

#14 Oct 18, 2007
Double D wrote:
Oh U-46 parent,
I did forget to respond to that little dig about goals. I have goals and goals are given to me. Some work out and some don't. One of my goals is to help kids dig out of the generational poverty that they have been handed. That one is more important than any of the stuff I read on here. And believe me it is a more powerful motivator than the prospect of a larger raise or avoiding the disdain of my fellow citizens. Please point your fingers where they belong. Your anger is not well spent attacking teachers. Would you altruistically turn down a bigger raise for the good of the common woman or man?
That's great that you have goals but are the goals practical, measurable and within your control? And if you are tenured and don't meet those goals are you subject to termination like we are in the corporate world?

The corporate world has changed a lot since 2000. Employees are no longer considered valuable assets, but rather replacable parts at the CEO's pleasure. My salary is now back to where it was in 1998 - and I am one of the lucky ones. A guy that worked for me earned over 100K as a data base engineer. No he works fro $15/hr in a call center. How many teachers had to deal with such job insecurity, were lower wages and losing ones' benefits are all too common today?

When the U46 Board and teachers look to their situation they should really see what's going on with the lives of the taxpayers so they achieve some sort of balance with the community. The whole Connie Neale deal means the board needs to have a colonoscopy so their heads can be removed and put back where it belongs.
Double D

United States

#15 Oct 18, 2007
U46 resident,

All of the things you mention are indeed unfortunate. Smart teacher's are aware of the realities of the work world. In the upper levels it's kind of their job. There were many of us that have been let go in recent reductions in force. Reductions caused largely by financial mismanagement. The only saving grace of our union is that we when we get riffed we get placed into available slots when qualified. Teachers do want to get paid, but our goals are about the kids. We want THEM to be comfortable and to be able to provide for their families when the time comes. I understand your comments about job security. That's one of the perks of government work though. Don't worry, It will be awhile before I can work my way up to superintendent and earn over 400 sick days in 5 years. Sick days that are worth 10 times what mine are now.
Northpith

Rhinelander, WI

#16 Oct 23, 2007
If U-46 teachers have it so good, why aren't all you complainers lining up to get a degree and teach?
PROUD TO BE AN EDUCATOR

Minneapolis, MN

#17 Oct 23, 2007
Northpith wrote:
If U-46 teachers have it so good, why aren't all you complainers lining up to get a degree and teach?
Northpith...you typed the words I wanted to. I'll tell you why all the complainers do nothing more than complain...because they couldn't handle teaching!!!! They can complain all they want and say what they like, I know what I do counts and that I have made a difference in the lives of the students I have taught. I could careless about the pay, I want my students to receive the best education they can receive in a classroom that is conducive to learning and isn't overcrowded with 30+ students year after year. I don't want to be taken out of the classroom 3 to 4 times a year because the district has once again decided to purchase a new program that promises to get better test results so THEY look good. I don't want to see my students fall behind when they are able to get the services they need because they "don't qualify". Stop the bullshit....TEACHERS CARE!!!! We want our students to be successful.
PROUD TO BE AN EDUCATOR

Minneapolis, MN

#18 Oct 23, 2007
I see in my reply I left out a word...I don't want to see my students fall further behind when the ARE NOT able to get the services they desperately need because they just "don't qualify".

I wanted to "fix" that before all those who feel they are above teachers sound off.

Not that it matters...the ignorant will always remain ignorant.
Steve

AOL

#19 Nov 18, 2007
BULSHITP
BALOONING URBAN LAVISH SUBURBAN HIGHSCHOOL INFLATED
TEACHER PENSIONS

LETS STOP “BULSHITP” NOW. I know a young couple in a typical suburban high school teaching district. These are nice people who took fully advantage of an unbalanced, unfair to the taxpayer, Unionized system, and because of taxpayer naivety have parlayed their pay input to $106,000 and $109,000 respectively per year in about 20 years (counting student teaching in the system). Keep in mind this nice couple working only 9 months or less a year at 34 or less hours a week are not even 40 years old yet. This nice couple’s plans are to retire in 5 years taking the district “5 Year Buy-Out” giving them equivalent of 30 years (20, plus 5 more years, plus 5 Year Buy Out). By then this nice couple should be getting $136,000 and $139,000 respectively or $275,000 total and be eligible for the Buy-Out. When they get the Buy-Out (because of their average high end pay) and retire at the old age of approx. 45 years, they will get 75% of their end of career payments in pensions plus the normal medical and insurance benefits. That would be an early retirement of $206,250 per year (plus medical and insurance benefits). Because teacher pensions increase at a 3% per year (regardless of real inflation) compounded annually, in 10 years they will be getting payments of $277,182 per year at 55 years old and $372,510 per year at 65 years (does this sound like your retirement?). To my modest retirement this seems like a fortune, yet these people were just normal high school teachers (nothing special) where I of course was a high power well educated hard working Professional Engineer who can barely afford to retire at 66 (Social Security plus some 401K’s). God bless this nice couple and the overly generous school boards who obviously took advantage of us dumb, hard working, taxpayers. Please keep in mind that this couple are not the exception but close to the norm give or take 5 years (see: http://illinoisloop.org/salary.html ).
Illinois is already paying the price for the pension burden, which is evident in the lack of funding for worthwhile programs like transportation, road/bridge repair, needed money for health care, aid to the poor, educational facilities, parks, etc. How much can we expand and tax gambling, cigarettes, alcohol, toll ways, gasoline, sales, paychecks, etc. to pay for this ever ballooning pension burden? We are stressing our young wage earners and putting our rank and file retired people out of their homes and the state.
The answer is not to find ways to fund BULSHITP but to pass legislation to modify and reduce ever ballooning public pensions.
Let this be our battle cry “No More BULSHITP”.
upset parent

Glen Ellyn, IL

#20 Nov 18, 2007
When teachers teach like in the past then I would feel sorry for them. Nowadays they plug in a video give a test and have the students grade each others.

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