Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#62906
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the inclusion of God in the conversation was inevitable since Xtians believe Jesus to be God in human form. But whether we're talking about prophets, man-gods, or "the" God, it all boils down to that one word - faith.
The traditional Jewish position regarding Christianity is not that it is wrong (despite what we might think privately) but that it fundamentally violates (at least) one of our commandments. Since we do not assume that Christians have to follow all of our commandments, really, what the Christians may or may not believe is really not our concern (just leave us alone). Our concern is what WE believe. This keeps the judgments, as abhorrent as they may seem to people, focused on ourselves and not on others, and is the reason why we dont stand on street corners handing out bibles to nonJews.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#62907
Nov 18, 2013
 
Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel but they are murdered in Egypt and the rest of the Muslim world.

I've visited Israel, they treat gentiles very well. I've seen the way they treat Arabs in Israel, like neighbors.

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#62908
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
However, for example, science can not discover morality, nor can it provide direction, nor can it provide identity - which is fundamental to direction and morality.
I don't know if I agree with this statement. While morality is a very nuanced topic, I think there is a lot that both the hard and soft sciences can offer us, including discovery, direction and identity.
Frijoles wrote:
These are the thing culture and society provides, and ones concept of either can just as easy depend upon a God concept as not.
Yes, concepts of morality can be predicated on a belief in god (for believers) and not (for non-believers and believers). All very personal and somewhat subjective and relativistic as I don't believe in an overarching objective morality. But we diverge. The original intent of my most was not to argue over the existence of god or the nuances of morality, but to point out that faith based participants are not in a position to denigrate the faiths of other faith based participants.

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#62910
Nov 18, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The traditional Jewish position regarding Christianity is not that it is wrong (despite what we might think privately) but that it fundamentally violates (at least) one of our commandments. Since we do not assume that Christians have to follow all of our commandments, really, what the Christians may or may not believe is really not our concern (just leave us alone). Our concern is what WE believe. This keeps the judgments, as abhorrent as they may seem to people, focused on ourselves and not on others, and is the reason why we dont stand on street corners handing out bibles to nonJews.
Sure. I do agree that Jews mostly stick to a focus on THEIR beliefs, not the beliefs of others. If you recall, though, my participation in this whole topic started over Rick calling the central figure of another religion mythical and my response was "glass houses"...

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#62911
Nov 18, 2013
 

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DEBUNKING THE DOUBLE SLIT EXPERIMENT IN THE CONTEXT OF OBSERVER EFFECT:

The double slit experiment indicates the wave-particle nature of energy.

Photons passing through a single slit behave like particles as seen in the simple pattern created on impact with the measurement device (screen) when the wave function collapses to a distinct value that's no longer a probability of the position of the traveling photon in a given location which demonstrates the particulate nature of energy, but with 2 slits the photons behave like waves that interfere with each other which show up as complicated patterns on the receiving screen behind. Until humans don't interfere with the process by placing a screen to make a measurement, the wave function of the photons would remain intact.

Photon is a bit of information in energy field, a massless particle with velocity approaching that of c and the force carrier of em force, the experimental set up is fabricated from energy concentrate called matter and constructed by humans and machines devised by engineers to record certain outcomes determined by the hypothesis and so in this way it could be said that the instrumental part is fashioned in keeping with the intent and capacity of the human beings involved in inventing/fabricating it.

So, the instrument gives us readings of the observed phenomenon in ways that we ascribe to it to suit the way of our thinking, functioning and the capacities of our organs of perception. Every aspect described above is interconnected and as such can influence other in specific ways.

Focusing one's awareness at a beam of fast moving, massless photons supposedly often alters the dynamic of the beam causing the wave function to collapse into a particle.

Probably, concentrated bursts of expelled body energy in the form of electromagnetic signals radiated especially from the eyes and region of the brain when one looks intently at the beam generated by the source in the experimental set up could cause the collapse of the wave function? It could be plausible that if one has a sufficiently focused stare, sufficient quanta of em radiation shoot towards the experimental setup and may cause a change in the interference pattern. Experienced mediators are habituated to gathering their consciousness-energy at one fixed spot and so it's only natural to expect that the outcome of the experiment would be altered to a greater extent in case of experienced meditators.

This experiment does not prove that sentience has an effect on wave function but it simply demonstrates the effect of the exchange of energy of a thermodynamic open system like the human body with the experimental setup.

Had consciousness been the influencer of the outcome of the event, then, consciousness would have directly perceived the underlying mechanism at work and would have simply been a witness to the play of the forces of subject and object. This is not the case. Consciousness observes plans, cogitates, reflects, memorizes or summarizes, while the energy field in which it naturally inheres is the worker or the doer. Consciousness by itself is impotent to act and there can be nothing like pure consciousness existing by itself. Consciousness cannot be converted into energy nor can energy be transmuted into awareness. All that can be said is that energy is conscious just as energy condenses into matter or that energy has both wave and particulate aspects.

Now, instead of human participants, had a sound instrument been used in the double slit experiment, the results would have shown similar results with some differences.

To conclude, everything in nature/being is interconnected with both constituting dual aspects of a unified field and that constant exchanges of energy in varying degrees keep taking place within the entity and with the surroundings thereby modifying the outcome of an event.

JOEL

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#62912
Nov 18, 2013
 

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SCIENCE HAS SHOWN US HOW TO BE MORAL - HERE'S HOW:

1) To be moral, one needs accurate knowledge at one's disposal and the technological/material means to alleviate suffering everywhere. This is real help and so it is true morality, whereas siting in a shrine and praying on shabbat to a savage being called G-d who teaches to kill, curse,
and ostracize is immorality - example, the barbaric Jewish G-d.

2) Morality is all about showing us how to act with care and concern and intelligence towards life forms and nature.

3) Science has shown us strong evidence concerning the fundamental oneness of cosmic existence and so this provides us with a concrete example of being moral by looking on everything as simply so many manifested aspects and as a result by adopting a sustainable lifestyle would be the best way one can live in peace and harmony without exploiting living creatures and inanimate nature.

4) Science has shown us that humans are 99.9 % similar in genes and so hatred and xenophobia should disappear, while religions encourage hatred and racism.

5) Science has given us the technological, agricultural, telecommunication, transportation and medical care means to provide for the poorer sections of society.

CONCLUSION: Only an idiot like Frijoles says that science has not shown us how to be moral. On the other hand, religions preach immorality and ignorance and violence and hatred.

LMFAO

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#62913
Nov 18, 2013
 

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SCORE SHEET:

COR = 5,

Frijoles = 0



Rick =- 3

(grins)

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#62914
Nov 18, 2013
 

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COR ends up with a score of 5, Frijoles scores 0, while Rick earns a score of minus 3. LOL.

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#62915
Nov 18, 2013
 
CONGRATULATIONS TO COR ON TROUNCING FRIJOLES/RICKS IN THE DEBATE:

In this debate, COR comes out on top not because he's intelligent - far from it - but simply on account of the fact that he's able to counter the arguments from Frijoles/Rick where belief in a scriptural G-d by consistently pointing out that there's zero evidence for G-d and that his rivals should apply the same standards of evaluation to every religion.

As expected, Frijoles and Rick display zero reasoning skills and rely on tribalism and on mumbo jumbo mental constructs that they attempt to coat over with polite words but the substance in their arguments is pathetic and befitting the status of retards and bigots.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#62916
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if I agree with this statement. While morality is a very nuanced topic, I think there is a lot that both the hard and soft sciences can offer us, including discovery, direction and identity.
Ultimately science does not address "why" questions. It addresses "what" and "how" questions. When it does venture into "why" territory, it hedges the discourse as "interpretation"
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, concepts of morality can be predicated on a belief in god (for believers) and not (for non-believers and believers). All very personal and somewhat subjective and relativistic as I don't believe in an overarching objective morality. But we diverge. The original intent of my most was not to argue over the existence of god or the nuances of morality, but to point out that faith based participants are not in a position to denigrate the faiths of other faith based participants.
Maybe not an overarching morality, but then there is a question of identity.

I dont think RM was denigrating Christians, as much as he was taking them to task for lashing out at his/my group. I think his ultimate argument was practical, not theological - that Christians had perverted the teaching of their god so much as to render them useless, given the negative climate that they had institutionalized.

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#62917
Nov 18, 2013
 
Yawn. LOL.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#62918
Nov 18, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure. I do agree that Jews mostly stick to a focus on THEIR beliefs, not the beliefs of others. If you recall, though, my participation in this whole topic started over Rick calling the central figure of another religion mythical and my response was "glass houses"...
Have you ever studied Maimonides? As a rationalist, his premise was that we can't say what God is, we can only say what he isnt. I.E> we can only define something from the point of elimination (which is how science works).

One of the implications of this is that while you can respond by saying "I dont need a god concept - science can explain all - eventually", science really isnt any better as it requires (via faith) two assumptions - that the world is rational, and that it is knowable. As a result, both science and religion can only get you so far.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#62919
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
SCIENCE HAS SHOWN US HOW TO BE MORAL - HERE'S HOW:
1) To be moral, one needs accurate knowledge at one's disposal and the technological/material means to alleviate suffering everywhere. This is real help and so it is true morality, whereas siting in a shrine and praying on shabbat to a savage being called G-d who teaches to kill, curse,
and ostracize is immorality - example, the barbaric Jewish G-d.
2) Morality is all about showing us how to act with care and concern and intelligence towards life forms and nature.
3) Science has shown us strong evidence concerning the fundamental oneness of cosmic existence and so this provides us with a concrete example of being moral by looking on everything as simply so many manifested aspects and as a result by adopting a sustainable lifestyle would be the best way one can live in peace and harmony without exploiting living creatures and inanimate nature.
4) Science has shown us that humans are 99.9 % similar in genes and so hatred and xenophobia should disappear, while religions encourage hatred and racism.
5) Science has given us the technological, agricultural, telecommunication, transportation and medical care means to provide for the poorer sections of society.
CONCLUSION: Only an idiot like Frijoles says that science has not shown us how to be moral. On the other hand, religions preach immorality and ignorance and violence and hatred.
LMFAO
The Germans applied a highly scientific approach to the elimination of large numbers of human beings - all in the name of science and progress.

POOF goes your argument

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#62920
Nov 18, 2013
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

The Germans applied a highly scientific approach to the elimination of large numbers of human beings - all in the name of science and progress.
Religion has done the same or worse over thousands of years by indulging in genocides, slavery, rapes, persecutions and torture.

Unlike religion, science has the means to give us real information about nature/being and to provide us with the technological tools to provide real help to people.

Religion is mumbo jumbo and aimed at retards.

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#62921
Nov 18, 2013
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Ultimately science does not address "why" questions.
Religion like science does not explain WHY.

At the most the WHY of faith is that some G-d is pleased if so and so thing is done.

LMFAO.

Since, energy is self-existent and eternal and cyclical despite changing form from gross to subtle and vice versa, thus the question WHY does the universe exist is illogical.

The universe is simply an existential fact and not a creation of some G-d.

Assuming this creature called G-d exists, the same question can be asked of this G-d: WHY does this G-d exist? This is again an illogical question.

Whatever is, simply is.

There's nothing like nothing nor is there anything like non-existence.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62922
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
COR ends up with a score of 5, Frijoles scores 0, while Rick earns a score of minus 3. LOL.
Based on what you have written, I see that the C is outperforming big F.

Much love Mon.

Later.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#62923
Nov 18, 2013
 
JOEL THUMBS UP wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion like science does not explain WHY.
At the most the WHY of faith is that some G-d is pleased if so and so thing is done.
LMFAO.
Since, energy is self-existent and eternal and cyclical despite changing form from gross to subtle and vice versa, thus the question WHY does the universe exist is illogical.
The universe is simply an existential fact and not a creation of some G-d.
Assuming this creature called G-d exists, the same question can be asked of this G-d: WHY does this G-d exist? This is again an illogical question.
Whatever is, simply is.
There's nothing like nothing nor is there anything like non-existence.
Suppose you must make a choice between knowing HOW something is done or WHY it is done , which would you choose?

I truly must go.

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#62924
Nov 18, 2013
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Have you ever studied Maimonides?

As a rationalist, his premise was that we can't say what God is,

we can only say what he isn't.
Really?

G-d is murderous - Yes,

G-d is cruel - Yes

G-d supports human sacrifices - Yes

G-d asks for burnt offerings - Yes

G-d commanded the patriarchs to mass murder the worshippers of rival Gods - Yes

G-d is tribal - Yes

G-d is infanticidal - Yes

G-d is anthropopathic and monolatristic - Yes

G-d is a jealous G-d - Yes

G-d is revengeful - Yes

G-d displays fits of rage - Yes

G-d created the world in 6 days - Yes

G-d promotes incest - Yes

G-d is homophobic - Yes

G-d hates gentiles - Yes

G-d promotes prostitution/pimping of one's wife - Yes

G-d promotes cannibalism - Yes

G-d created the world from nothing - Yes

G-d promotes bashing babies against rocks - Yes

G-d is ignorant - Yes

G-d was borrowed by the patriarchs from the Babylonians - Yes

G-d is a demon - Yes

LMFAO

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#62925
Nov 18, 2013
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Based on what you have written, I see that the C is outperforming big F.

Much love Mon.

Later.
Yes.

COR is not intelligent but he is consistent in pointing out the hypocrisy of fanatical retards like Frijoles and Rick.

You can't hope to win any debate with even a kid if you base your logic on a pathetic book like Torah or on the illogic of an idiot like Maimonides.

I tell you that Frijoles is heading for destruction ---- his force fields are already showing a tinge of unbalance as a force of destruction prepares to move into his aura....

As for Rick, well, he'll be elated sucking dicks as he reads Torah and plays with his dolls.

LMFAO

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#62926
Nov 18, 2013
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>

Suppose you must make a choice between knowing HOW something is done or WHY it is done , which would you choose?
Assume that extra-cosmic G-d who creates from nothing exists and that this G-d is not an evanescent product of conscious energy.

Can you ask a question like this - why does G-d exist?

The only answer would be because he exists.

WHY can be asked about ordinary phenomena like say why does it rain or why is it hot today or why are you late?

You can't ask a question like this - why is water wet?

The only answer is that wetness is its innate characteristic.

Or, it would be absurd to ask - why energy can be neither created nor destroyed?

The answer is that this is the way it is.

Or, you can't ask a silly question like - why does the cosmos exist?

The answer is because energy being self-existent and eternal and cyclical in nature thus cosmos in QM form or in 4-dimesnional spatio-temporal form has always existed.

Existence never disappears nor does it appear from nothing. That would be a contradiction since there's nothing like absolute nothing. So, existence can oscillate between subtle to gross and vice versa but existence will never be blotted out into nothingness.

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