Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48726 Feb 6, 2013
Yoga breaks down the artificial barrier between the subjective and objective states and opens up the awakened individualized consciousness to the deeper realms of the unified field of consciousness-energy.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#48727 Feb 6, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Is anything new? Was it ever? One could say the same of Shakespeare. Some say it better than others, not that I'm a biblical scholar.
Personally, I like the Sermon on the Mount/The Beatitudes/Golden Rule etc.
Good teaching that most of use could use reinforcing in.
the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.(5:3)
those who mourn: for they will be comforted.(5:4)
the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.(5:5)
they who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be satisfied.(5:6)
the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.(5:7)
the pure in heart: for they shall see God.(5:8)
the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.(5:9)
those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
<quoted text>
True for most of them, but not all.
Some are better than others. More sincere. And many are hypocrites.
In other words...even if one doesn't think JC was the son of god, doing things his way.....well, one could do worse.
Regarding the Sermon on the Mount/The Beatitudes/Golden Rule etc. I can boil it all down to two main points:

1. Play nice
2. Clean up after yourself when you're done

I challenge anyone to find a moral situation for which one of these two don't apply.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48728 Feb 6, 2013
The so-called subjective is is connected to the so-called objective via universal force fields.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#48729 Feb 6, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Is anything new? Was it ever? One could say the same of Shakespeare. Some say it better than others, not that I'm a biblical scholar.
Personally, I like the Sermon on the Mount/The Beatitudes/Golden Rule etc.
Good teaching that most of use could use reinforcing in.
the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.(5:3)
those who mourn: for they will be comforted.(5:4)
the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.(5:5)
they who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be satisfied.(5:6)
the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.(5:7)
the pure in heart: for they shall see God.(5:8)
the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.(5:9)
those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
<quoted text>
True for most of them, but not all.
Some are better than others. More sincere. And many are hypocrites.
In other words...even if one doesn't think JC was the son of god, doing things his way.....well, one could do worse.
"While some of the passages in this sermon have been considered sage advice by readers of varying beliefs, the sermon includes many passages which seem to contradict the claim that the author was wise beyond mortal men. Many people have pointed out that rather than being the ultimate instructions for how to live life, the sermon contains several passages that would typically qualify as bad advice and projects some philosophical positions that are typical of the era and not indicative of a wise, transcendent being. A detailed, verse-by-verse look at the message in this sermon follows below."

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php...
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48730 Feb 6, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
http://www.merriam-webster.com /dictionary/delusion
Definition of DELUSION
1: the act of deluding : the state of being deluded
2a : something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated
2b : a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs
rabbee: example; if you call adam, by the name jesus. then that is being delusional. and it's like calling, Yeetzak as issac.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48731 Feb 6, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?
Maat---Mon, you're EFFIN BRILLIANT!
HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.
Frijoles---“Irony is wasted on the stupid”
HughBe--- Well said, YOU "effin" FOOL.
Frijoles---Thats not irony. Thats vainly concealed anger.
HughBe--- sonny boy, I DELIBERATELY ignored Maat's calling me EFFIN and focused on the positive i.e. BRILLIANT. This went right over your head. Now that I have explained it, go back and see in you understand it now.
Next, there is no anger and was no anger towards Maat, YOU "effin" FOOL.
By the way did you pick up on the "concealed anger" via your Satan?
Grammar is indeed a real issue.
Enforcing a predicate, not a person...sigh.
Grammar indeed. That's apart from the actually real slow thought processing speed.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48732 Feb 6, 2013
The truth of the matter is rather that all the qualities we ascribe to external objects are inside us and not in the "external world". So what remains of the "external world"? What remains of the subjective world? Everything, whether subjective or objective, is one field of different forces at play creating via spatio-temporal factors a feeling of internal and external in the exteriorized human consciousness. Actually speaking, everything in existence is simply a manifestation of the unified field of consciousness-energy.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48733 Feb 6, 2013
REINCARNATION - It is the recycling, in a progressive or a regressive manner, of the subtler grades of the disembodied individualized and imperishable consciousness-energy that retains in its fold information regarding karma and degree of evolution which serves as the cause and impetus of the next descent into matter.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48734 Feb 6, 2013
Salvation must be integral - no part of existence (mental, vital-emotional physical and subconscient) must be left out of the perfection of being.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48736 Feb 6, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Well....some of my best friends are Jewish :)).....and they tend to say the believe JC existed and was sort of mystic or some such. Not that it's up for a vote.
Other than stating he was the son of god, I guess he was a good Jew? Or was that even enough to make him not Jewish?
Huggy wrote: "While at it explain your man's/Frijoles' words i.e. "I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus."
I didn't check the quote and took him at his word. So took that to mean you did acknowledge JC's existence.
I was a bit sloppy with my words, but followed up with a clarification of intent. To most people, that clarification would of been adequate, but as we all know, Huggy is a little bit special with that regard.

There are many Jewish people who consider EVEN the discussion of Jesus a topic that may lead to cooties. Thats a reflex that has been developed from centuries of persecution, reinforced by experiences with modern day evangelicists.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48737 Feb 6, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
If you wish to talk with me, introduce something intelligent or thought-provoking, otherwise keep debating with unintelligent, unclassy, impoverished, crude and fanatical posters like Hugh, Frijoles, Eric and Buford.
Ok, then, get it?
Glad to know you are staying the course. Evolution is for weenies.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48738 Feb 6, 2013
JOEL wrote:
The so-called subjective is is connected to the so-called objective via universal force fields.
Thats the type of comment that would seem really, really deep after a couple of bong hits, late at night while at college (not that I would know anything about that).
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48739 Feb 6, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Glad to know you are staying the course. Evolution is for weenies.
Hi Papa.

Be happy, prosperous and safe - always and in all ways.

Take care.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#48741 Feb 6, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for verifying my point. The Messianics cannot live there because they do not believe that Muhammad is a Messenger.
Who can "live" in any country without fulfilling its Visa requirement?

We have very simple rule, we do not look at their color, their language, their ethnicity, their status.... they should have believe in Allah and the Last prophet to enter the Sanctuary and live peacefully while inside it.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48742 Feb 6, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Thats the type of comment that would seem really, really deep after a couple of bong hits, late at night while at college (not that I would know anything about that).
Ok, Papa.

Thank you.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#48743 Feb 6, 2013
Look at the posts of this false yogi addressed to me... These are enough to prove that he is no yogi at all.

All his claims of culture and fine living and manners are only skin deep.

Just prick him on any sensitive point and you get torrent of insults and abuses and vain talks.

And he thinks I am "itching" to have discussions with him. In my view "two minutes" of discussions with him is an "adult's Quota to last two months".
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#48744 Feb 6, 2013
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-54

The Case of : ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ BIN SALOOL OF KHAZRAJ

There were cases in which “All Swords” the prophet used to have at his disposal failed and one can say that he failed to “enslave” some people. There were some who faced Muslim army in the battle field and were slain, and there were a few cases which were executed on the order of prophet (which we shall take up in the next episode).

But the case of people like ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ falls under the category of Hypocrites or those “in whose heart there is a disease”(As Quran mentions in its magical way). Despite Quranic warning and injunctions to prophet and to Muslims to deal firmly with them and even kill them , The Prophet dealt with much leniently with them and during his life time and life time of his companions, we do not find a single case, where some one was executed on the charge of being a hypocrite.

Early History:

ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ belonged to KHAZRAJ tribe of Madina. He was an acknowledged leader of the clan. Before the prophet migrated to Madina, it was decided that he would be crowned “King Of Madina”. All preparations were made and the crown was also made, but before the ceremony could be held. Islam came to Madina and shortly after wards, prophet migrated to Madina.

When prophet reached Madina, he was universally agreed as the Sole Authority for Muslims in all matters, religious or secular. Most people of tribes living in Madina became Muslim. ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ perceived that his position was usurped by the prophet.

But since he was in minority, he could not openly oppose the prophet, he and some of his followers became what is called as “a group of Hypocrites” in Madina.

Activities of Hypocrites:

These people declared Islam because of fear of Majority of Muslims living in Madina, but they were not Muslims by heart.

Their sympathies and all their good will was with any one who was enemy of Islam and prophet. Be it Pagans of Makkah, pagan tribes of desert or Jews of Madina.

They wanted to exploit each and every situation to create discord and division between people of Median, or people who migrated from Makkah.

They used to circulate false rumor before, during and after wars so as to discourage the moral of Muslims, and in battles, they were with Non Believers, irrespective of their physical presence.

These hidden enemies were a bigger threat to stability and security of Small Islamic state of Madina than much larger enemies who were living outside Madina.

Quran mentions many of their activities, which I have to skip to save space on the thread.

ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ and his dealings with prophet:

Prophet used to deal kindly with ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ and his clan and tried every means at his disposal to reform them, but it were of no avail. ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ tried his best to be haughty to prophet and other Muslims and left no chance to insult them, some of more important cases are mentioned here:

1. During the Battle of UHUD:

ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ and 300 of his supporters initially joined Muslim army of 1000 people to face Makkan army of 3000. On the way, he and his group turned back to Madina complaining that Prophet had ignored their advice and accepted advise of some young people of Madina. Loss of 33 % at the eve of battle could have proved catastrophic.

2. During siege of BANU NADHEER:

ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ sent message to Jews of this tribe, asking them to remain firm and he will come to their aid. But he did not dare to come in the open. When they surrendered to prophet , he almost forced the prophet to be lenient with them and allow them to go away.

(Contd.)

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48745 Feb 6, 2013
No devolution, no involution.
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#48746 Feb 6, 2013
3. During the Battle of BANI MUSTALIQ:

There arose some small disagreement between original residents of Madina and those who migrated from Makkah. Hypocrites used this opportunity to enflame this dispute into a full fledged war, Prophet reached and got the situation under control.

Later ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ said to his followers “I was saying to you, do not give shelter to these beggars from Makkah, now you have seen how strong they have become and are now bossing over you. When we shall reach Madina, we the Honorable people would turn out those wretched people from there”.

This news reached to prophet and he called ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ and enquired about it. He changed his stance and said that he never said such a thing. Allah confirmed his saying in a Verse of Quran.

Abdullah the son of this Hypocrite in Chief was a true Muslim, when people reached Madina, he stood at the gate with naked sword and said to his father “You said I am honorable and Prophet and Muslims are wretched people, By Allah, unless Prophet allows you, you will never be able to enter Madina”

The news reached the prophet and he told Abdullah to allow his father to enter the city.

4. ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ and false charge on Aiyesha the Wife of Prophet:

It was the same hypocrite who put a false charge of adultery against the most beloved wife of prophet. Due to these slanders, Prophet, his wife Aiyesha and her household had to undergo almost one month of mental torture.

In the end Allah revealed in Quran verses, exposing the falsehood of this charge. Muslims who had joined in the propaganda were punished with 80 lashes each, but prophet did not punish ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ saying that “punishment of hereafter shall suffice him”

5. ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ death and prophet’s Mercy:

Shortly afterward ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ died and his son came to prophet, so that he should lead the funeral prayer for him.

Prophet gave his shirt, so that it could be used as his burial cloth,….personally lead the funeral prayer….put into grave with his own hands and prayed for his forgiveness.

Omar caught the garment of prophet and said “How can you lead the funeral prayer and pray for him, when he said that and that and acted like this and this”

Prophet ignored the pleas of Omar and said that “Allah has given me choice to pray for them or not. If I was sure that by asking forgiveness for more than 70 times, Allah will accept it, I would do it”

After this incident Allah instructed prophet, never to lead funeral prayer of any Hypocrite or pray for them.

Such was ABDULLAH BIN UBAI’ on which None of the Swords of Prophet were effective and he went “Scot free” or do you think so?!!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/122191862

Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48747 Feb 6, 2013
No involution, no evolution.

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