CAVE People Wrong, Wrong, Wrong About...

CAVE People Wrong, Wrong, Wrong About Everything

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TorCedits

Townville, PA

#1 Jan 31, 2010
C.A.V.E.
Citizens Against Virtually Everything
[IMG]http://i823.photobucket.c om/albums/zz154/torcedits/doc1 .jpg[/IMG]

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#2 Jan 31, 2010
Cloudynm...is this you trying out a new pseudonym? Isn't that cute...trying to hide in hiding.

While the picture hasn't loaded yet, I assume it has as much value as the rest of you. Zero.

Though I do like the name of the thread. You must have watched my video. I'm flattered.

www.veoh.com/group/week-in-review-torc

Since you've brought up the "wrong, wrong, wrong about everything" shall we discuss what that quote was about: the municipal courthouse.

How do you like our $300,000 xerox machine which will house our municipal court?

“Springtime In New Mexico, YES!”

Since: Jun 09

Elephant Butte Sierra County

#3 Jan 31, 2010
C.A.V.E People:
Illegally alleged that BAR-2 Sand and Gravel were operating a mine (gravel pit) when in fact, their claim is baseless.

While this shenannigan was going on, BAR-2 trucks were idled putting drivers out of work...Not good for OUR ECONOMY.

Show contempt for law enforcement: resisted arrest when attempting to step in front of semi tractor trialers loaded with (80,000) pounds of gravel, therefore endangering their lives, the lives of others, and putting the drivers at severe risks for unavoidable and potential accidents.

Showed contempt for city officials during P&Z Commission meetings by being disruptive, disorderly, and unwilling to yield to the speaker, therefore, committeman Howell had to strike the gavel to end the insanity pleas of the C.A.V.E people.

Slander and besmirch all of the following persons involved with the Spaceport, Bill Howell, the Owner and drivers of BAR-2 Sand and Gravel, Sierra County Sheriff's Department, Truth or Consequences Police Department, Sierra County Circuit Court, The Spaceport Authority, Local Business Owners, and anyone else, including myself, who try to stand in their way in our efforts to promote progress of OUR LOCAL ECONOMY.

These C.A.V.E. People will stop at nothing in their attempt to impede city, county, state governments and the life and liberty of those who would be successful business ventures and their employees.

Please make your voice heard, STOP THE CAVE PEOPLE NOW!

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#4 Jan 31, 2010
TorCedits wrote:
C.A.V.E.
Citizens Against Virtually Everything
[IMG]http://i823.photobucket.c om/albums/zz154/torcedits/doc1 .jpg[/IMG]
The picture finally loaded, and I'm literally rolling on the floor laughing so hard I'm about to pee my pants.
You obviously did not yet watch the January 26, 2010, Week in Review Truth or Consequences.
www.veoh.com/group/week-in-review-torc
You see, Mr. Jim Jacobs and the City admitted that the letter to the editor was a lie when I requested per the IPRA for a copy of the audio recording he declared he made. As I said in the 1/26/10 episode it is too funny that Mr. Jim Jacobs actually paid to have himself declared a liar.

As for the rest of the content, do you actually believe that only retail businesses (those with a cash register) are businesses? Besides being illogical and ridiculous, that is simply not true.
As for the rest of the crap about the aggregate pit mine not being a mine, and even that the State of New Mexico says that it is not a mine, also a load of crap and completely untrue. I know we've had some differences in the past 24 hours as to whether you can read, but I'll have faith that you really can and include the link to the New Mexico Administrative Code:

http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/NMAC/parts/title...

The specific reference is 19.7.1.7.E. Go ahead and read it. The aggregate pit mine is defined by the State as a mine contrary to Mr. Jacobs lies in a lie.

As for the crap that the mine has been in continuous operation since 1957, there are ZERO public records to support that fact and NUMEROUS public records to discount that claim. Even if they could prove it had been in continuos operation, the second they failed (and continued to fail for more than one year) to register that mine with the City, they became an illegal, nonconfirming operation and lose all grandfather status. That's the law, and it is a fact.

I also suggest that listening to those who are committing malfeasance and dereliction of duties is not the wisest course of business. He screwed up so bad he's recused himself from the P&Z appeal, but I've requested his immediate and permanent removal.
Really, watch the 1/26/10 episode. I've got an entire segment dedicated to just this issue, including the documents, and see some truth...the documents are even on the show. Go ahead, I dare you to see the light of truth and not scamper from the light.

Oh, and why don't you call the Herald on Monday (unless you'll be there for work) and ask them why they didn't report on the Jim Jacobs situation having to admit because of an IPRA request that he is a liar and had to recuse himself from the P&Z appeal. Dare you...ask them why they are such a disgrace to the Fourth Estate (and the Sentinel, too).

And you still remain silent on the stealing of water from our acquifer. Are you trying to meet me picture for picture. Funny, cuz that is the strategy Jim Jacobs recently tried in his paid letter to the editor. I had just recently publicly called a Commissioner out on a lie as "I have a recording of that conversation."

Guess Mr. Jacobs liked that strategy, so in his letter to the editor he claims a conversation and that he has a recording. Difference was Mr. Jacobs had no conversation and thereby no recording. The strategy only works if it is true: I had the conversation with a Commissioner and I have the recording.
So, go ahead...post some more pictures. Who knows what little gem you'll provide me. At the very least, I did get a great laugh out of it once I opened it up and saw the picture.

This was your proof of the Cave people being wrong, wrong, wrong. Last week this letter to the editor was admitted to being a lie, lie, lie. Really, I can't stop giggling (with condescension and disdain).

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#5 Jan 31, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
Illegally alleged that BAR-2 Sand and Gravel were operating a mine (gravel pit)
Really, how is it "illegally alleged"? NMAC 19.7.1.7 clearly establishes the aggregate pit mine is a mine. If that is their new strategy, get real. Stupid is as stupid does.
cloudynm wrote:
Show contempt for law enforcement: resisted arrest when attempting to step in front of semi tractor trialers loaded with (80,000) pounds of gravel
The only people who showed contempt for our laws was law enforcement. 200 feet away is not stepping in front of a semi. The Sheriff's own video shows that Lt. Hamilton claim that Ms. Throckmorton stepped in front of the truck when it was 25 feet from the crosswalk was an out-and-out lie. It was 200 feet, three-quarters of a block away. You know you are lieing as the video is worth a million of your words. www.veoh.com/group/week-in-review-torc (premiere episode, part 1). You are beneath contempt and a traitor.
cloudynm wrote:
Showed contempt for city officials during P&Z Commission meetings by being disruptive, disorderly, and unwilling to yield to the speaker, therefore, committeman Howell had to strike the gavel to end the insanity pleas
You mean when I saved the City from another lawsuit of the violation of due process by insisting Howell answer whether this was the required public hearing that had not been noticed. That P&Z member Joey Perry finally interrupted Howell and stated, "she's right, we cannot do this as it has not been properly noticed." Your lies and desire to have the City violate the Constitutional and statutory rights to due process is nothing less than treason.
cloudynm wrote:
Slander and besmirch
Slander requires the statements to be false. The documents, local ordinances and state statutes prove my allegations. The only slander going on is by you, the newspapers, and the 'bad ole boys and gals' who attack those who are demanding the rule of law. Besides, one cannot besmirch character that does not exist. And how does one slander an unknown person. You hide behind a pseudonym. Speaking of which, I will be putting in a subpoena next week to the District Court for your email address and ISP to identify you to ensure that you are not a member of the P&Z, a City Commissioner, or City staff because if you are, you have committed ex parte communication in a quasi-judicial proceeding and committed a felony.
cloudynm wrote:
These C.A.V.E. People will stop at nothing in their attempt to impede ... the life and liberty of those who would be successful business ventures and their employees.
Like demand the rule of law? You idiot. What do you think protects our liberty: the rule of law. Read a book because in your present state of ignorance, you add zero value.
cloudynm wrote:
STOP THE CAVE PEOPLE NOW!
What are you suggesting? Threats to run me out of town. Been tried for 18 months. Hasn't worked, won't work. Maybe you're suggesting someone actually do good on the threats. FBI would be interested to talk to you if that is what you suggest.
I can tell you how to make me stop: FOLLOW THE LAW AND STOP YOUR LIES!!!
Another worthless post from cloudynm.(See, I was right. The original post was you just using another pseudonym. Coward!!!)

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#7 Jan 31, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
You also should stop trespassing on private property.
Never set foot on anyone's private property. Never been past the gates. The public roads that surround that mine, and a camera with zoom, do me just fine.

And I figured it out. You aren't Bartoo or a Commissioner. I saw an earlier post from you, Mr. Ruffini.

Can you say "ex parte communication"? Can you say violation of your oath of office, malfeasance and dereliction of duties? Can you say recusal and removal from office?

Since we're not yet at the District Court, I don't know if we can get a subpoena. But when we get through the administrative appeal process and, as I suspect, the laws aren't followed and it ends up in District Court, a subpoena will be filed the day the complaint is filed.

Hmmm...though I will try first a complaint to Topix for "unlawful" use of the site for ex parte communication and may get them to either confirm or deny your registered user name as belonging to Ruffini.

While I cannot attend Tuesday's P&Z meeting since I am out of town, I will be sending someone to ask you the question: "Are you cloudynm on Topix?"

I'd remind you that you are under oath (and a lie under oath is perjury), but the truth seems to carry no weight with you.

Come on...fess up...you are Ruffini.

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#9 Jan 31, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
The truth of the matter
Is the truth of the matter that you are Ray Ruffini of the P&Z Commission partaking in ex parte communication in violation of your oath, malfeasance and dereliction of duties?

The truth of the matter is that you have been spouting off for 7 months without any truth behind your posts.

The truth of the matter is that you are deflated now that your lies and ignorance have been shown to be lies and ignorance.

The truth of the matter is that the mine is illegal, and that is a fact.

Are you Ruffini or not?

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#10 Jan 31, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure there are plenty of ordinary citizens who would love to wring your neck.
Is that a threat, Mr. Ruffini?

“Springtime In New Mexico, YES!”

Since: Jun 09

Elephant Butte Sierra County

#11 Feb 1, 2010
Deb2me wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the truth of the matter that you are Ray Ruffini of the P&Z Commission partaking in ex parte communication in violation of your oath, malfeasance and dereliction of duties?
The truth of the matter is that you have been spouting off for 7 months without any truth behind your posts.
The truth of the matter is that you are deflated now that your lies and ignorance have been shown to be lies and ignorance.
The truth of the matter is that the mine is illegal, and that is a fact.
Are you Ruffini or not?
THESE ARE FACTS:

The truth of the matter is that you are an obstructionist.

I'm sure there are plenty of ordinary citizens who would love to wring your neck.

You must be very proud of yourself for idling trucks, equipment and the operators of these vehicles. Not to mention the wasting of Spaceport contractor's time, the County's time, the State of New Mexico's time, and of course the city of T or C's time and all of those dollars spent over your stupidity and obstructionism.

I am sure they needed the work and have families to raise and mouths to feed.

Yes, I'm sure your AMERICAN pride is really showing by PUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF WORK.

You absolutely should have your head examined by a doctor, because there is something definitely the matter with you.
You are not well at all, and you're not right or correct about any of your obstructions. You and your handful of followers are pests.

YOU WASTE OTHER PEOPLE'S TIME, MONEY, RESOURCES, AND EFFORTS.

YOU ARE AN OBSTRUCTIONIST EXTRAORDINAIRE.

YOU SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN.

NOW A WORD TO FORUM READERS:
this person and her small group of followers have forgotten that taxpayers, not only of Sierra County voted FOR the SPACPORT which sends a message to all that WE desire ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

What these cave people have tried to do is to DERAIL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT of Sierra and adjoining counties. By being obstructionists, they have put people out of work, and have cost untolled amounts of revenues that would be paid to workers and back into Sierra County and other county coffers in wages and tax dollars.

It is truly amazing how a few CAVE people could cause this much trouble, but they have, and have given black eyes to local businesses, city, county and state officials, and their own citizens.

I urge people of Sierra County to attend the P&Z Commission meetings and confront these CAVE people! Save Sierra County from the wasters!
Vmonia

Lincoln, NE

#12 Feb 1, 2010
Aww Debbie Soooooooo defensive. Next you're gonna attack some other business owner for not agreeing with you? ouch! Were you not the one chanting for change less than a year ago? Now you seem to... never mind you're not going to listen to anyone but yourself anyhow.
durablebrad

Espanola, NM

#13 Feb 1, 2010
If those involved with the Spaceport contracts choose to violate local, state, and federal laws in the process, then it is they who are to blame for the consequences. That is the inconvenient truth that CloudyNM refuses to concede.

Promoting the violent expression of anger by others is a typical fascist means for motivating others to achieve their desired end. Rather then adopting legal and proper methods of behavior, people like CloudyNM attempt to incite others to commit acts of violence.

The desperation of those in this community that continue to operate outside of the law with impunity, would seem to have risen to the point at which they are willing to sacrifice the well-being of the community for the profits that they seek.

The problem does not lie in economic development, but rather in the blind ambition exhibited by a small handful of local politicians, bankers, and large-scale contributors to the Republican Party. They believe that their axis of power in this small community entitles them to do whatever they choose in pursuit of financial gains, even if it is in violation of the law.
By shrouding these violations in the ruse of economic development, they have attempted to portray those with a healthy respect for the law as unwanted outsiders. Unfortunately, the growth that is coming to Sierra County will bring many more concerned citizens with the ability to comprehend the extent of this good-old-boy corruption, and the legal skills to remedy the situation.

Our local elected officials hired a felon convicted of a bribery charge as our City Manager. His record was expunged two months AFTER he was hired. He resigned the day after charges were filed against him here in Truth or Consequences.

Our local elected officials have delayed replacing our City Manager in order to siphon the budget of that position into other expenses. Our city government requires the oversight of a full-time manager, and our part-time City Commissioners have decided that they should run everything and spend the money too.

I urge the people of Sierra County to ask questions of their elected leaders. I beg them to consider that the only reason an injunction can be enforced is due to factual evidence presented to a court of law. I pray that they will shake off the tattered and vile cloak of corruption that now taints this beautiful place, and open their eyes to the greed and avarice that has replaced honesty and virtue. Unlike some, I have faith in their ability to change.

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“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#14 Feb 1, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
The truth of the matter is that you are an obstructionist.
Yep, I am obstructing the breaking of our laws to benefit a few at the harm of the many.
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>Not to mention the wasting of Spaceport contractor's time, the County's time, the State of New Mexico's time, and of course the city of T or C's time and all of those dollars spent over your stupidity and obstructionism.
I'm not the one who bid on a project that I could not do because the mine was illegal. That is what wasted the time and the dollars.
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I'm sure your AMERICAN pride is really showing by PUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF WORK.
I didn't put people out of work. The aggregate is still being trucked, just not from an illegal mine. Besides, our founding fathers did not believe that the "ends justify the means" nor do I. I am proud to carry on in their tradition.
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>this person and her small group of followers have forgotten that taxpayers, not only of Sierra County voted FOR the SPACPORT.
As did I. I even campaigned for it. Did you spend your personal time campaigning for the Spaceport?

The closing of the illegal aggregate pit mine did not affect the construction of the Spaceport one iota; didn't even slow it down. The goal was to stop the aggregate from being trucked through our Historic Hot Springs District. The added benefit, in looking at how to make them take an alternate route, discovered the mine was illegal.
So, not only did we get the trucks to stop "rumbling through town," but we got rid of the public nuisance of an illegal mine in a residential area.
cloudynm wrote:
have cost untolled amounts of revenues that would be paid to workers and back into Sierra County and other county coffers in wages and tax dollars.
The truckers weren't local workers, they were all from Albquerque and that's where the wages went. The rock crusher and trucking company were not registered to do business in our community so we don't see those tax dollars locally either.
cloudynm wrote:
have given black eyes to local businesses, city, county and state officials, and their own citizens.
Really, I made them break the laws of the land? The black eye was already there. All I've done is turn on the light so everyone can see their black eyes.

Scamper, roach, from the light of truth!!!

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#15 Feb 1, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
I urge people of Sierra County to attend the P&Z Commission meetings and confront these CAVE people!
Like in the January meeting wherein you wasted the time of all those people by attempting to illegally deny due process and not hold the required public hearing on the City's allowing the continued disobedience to our local business registration and zoning ordinances?

The next P&Z meeting won't have the public hearing as it was not properly noticed AGAIN.

And chances are, the P&Z won't be hearing the appeal of the zoning administrator's decision to allow continued disobedience to our local busienss registration and zoning ordinances since quorum won't be reached. Why? Recusals of several of the P&Z members as they violate their oath of office to deny the Constitutionally and statutorily guaranteed right to due process, just as you continue to do by posting ex parte communication. Traitor!!!

I do welcome public participation so they can see first hand the evidence that the mine is illegal and that the City has ALLOWED disobedience to our local business registration and zoning ordinances. Why? The aggregate pit mine is owned by the son-in-law of Comm. Renfro.

They'll also see how the City tampered with the public record--once again without paying attention to the details--in order to falsely demonstrate business registration. Caught them at it, and so they had to admit in a written memo that they had tampered with the public record.

Of course, I don't doubt that the hearing will be packed with EB residents who think they control TorC. Any EB resident will be objected to as a waste of time (and space) since this is a TorC issue on TorC ordinances.
cloudynm wrote:
confront these CAVE people!
Are you suggesting a mob gather to harm those who are legally following the process? Are you bringing the rope or shall it just be tar and feathers?

A public hearing is not a popularity contest but a quasi-judical hearing that is to follow the LAW. Though, you give no value to the laws of this land, do you?

I do not expect the P&Z Commission to follow or enforce the laws upholding their oaths of office. I do expect the P&Z Commission, if they ever do get a chance to hear the issue, to violate their statutory duty and violate the due process afforded in the quasi-judicial proceeding.

More witnesses to your treason. More witnesses to the organized corruption that runs this community.

The light of truth is shining and you are scared!!!

Benefit the few to the harm of the whole. Un-American!!!

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#16 Feb 1, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
THESE ARE FACTS:
There wasn't one fact in your entire diatribe.

“Springtime In New Mexico, YES!”

Since: Jun 09

Elephant Butte Sierra County

#17 Feb 1, 2010
Deb2me wrote:
<quoted text>
There wasn't one fact in your entire diatribe.
Poor little OBSTRUCTIONIST.
UNAMERICAN ACTIVITIES, putting people out of work in an economic crisis, you should be ashamed of yourself. Shame on YOU.
YOU WITCH.
FACTS are something YOU are NOT familiar with.
No Laws were circumvented, except for the laws you and your followers broke.
Did the owner of BAR-2 get arrested? no.
Did anyone else you charged with false allegations get arrested? no.

You were ARRESTED because you broke laws.

People reading this forum should be advised that little debbie is THE LAW BREAKER, and, not only that, he hates virtually every business person in T or C. She doesn't have too many friends right now, EVERYBODY IS AGAINST HER, and, she cannot understand WHY?

You OBSTRUCTIONIST! Why don't you MOVE! We law abiding citizens DO NOT WANT YOU AROUND.

“Springtime In New Mexico, YES!”

Since: Jun 09

Elephant Butte Sierra County

#18 Feb 1, 2010
durablebrad wrote:
If those involved with the Spaceport contracts choose to violate local, state, and federal laws in the process, then it is they who are to blame for the consequences. That is the inconvenient truth that CloudyNM refuses to concede.
Promoting the violent expression of anger by others is a typical fascist means for motivating others to achieve their desired end. Rather then adopting legal and proper methods of behavior, people like CloudyNM attempt to incite others to commit acts of violence.
The desperation of those in this community that continue to operate outside of the law with impunity, would seem to have risen to the point at which they are willing to sacrifice the well-being of the community for the profits that they seek.
The problem does not lie in economic development, but rather in the blind ambition exhibited by a small handful of local politicians, bankers, and large-scale contributors to the Republican Party. They believe that their axis of power in this small community entitles them to do whatever they choose in pursuit of financial gains, even if it is in violation of the law.
By shrouding these violations in the ruse of economic development, they have attempted to portray those with a healthy respect for the law as unwanted outsiders. Unfortunately, the growth that is coming to Sierra County will bring many more concerned citizens with the ability to comprehend the extent of this good-old-boy corruption, and the legal skills to remedy the situation.
Our local elected officials hired a felon convicted of a bribery charge as our City Manager. His record was expunged two months AFTER he was hired. He resigned the day after charges were filed against him here in Truth or Consequences.
Our local elected officials have delayed replacing our City Manager in order to siphon the budget of that position into other expenses. Our city government requires the oversight of a full-time manager, and our part-time City Commissioners have decided that they should run everything and spend the money too.
I urge the people of Sierra County to ask questions of their elected leaders. I beg them to consider that the only reason an injunction can be enforced is due to factual evidence presented to a court of law. I pray that they will shake off the tattered and vile cloak of corruption that now taints this beautiful place, and open their eyes to the greed and avarice that has replaced honesty and virtue. Unlike some, I have faith in their ability to change.
What a dribble,
you are clueless pal.
Join little debbie and be an OBSTRUCTIONIST yourself.

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#19 Feb 1, 2010
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
What a dribble,
you are clueless pal.
Join little debbie and be an OBSTRUCTIONIST yourself.
Once again...nothing of value.
durablebrad

Espanola, NM

#20 Feb 1, 2010
CloudyNM, I appreciate your attempt to provide a literary critique of my writing. It must be very difficult to come up with two whole sentences.

Oh, and the word you were looking for is: drivel

THANKS FOR PLAYING ALONG AT HOME, AND NOW BACK TO WHEEL OF FORTUNE!
cloudynm wrote:
<quoted text>
What a dribble,
you are clueless pal.
Join little debbie and be an OBSTRUCTIONIST yourself.
homecontestant

Silver City, NM

#21 Feb 2, 2010
I missed the home contestant matching number which should have been flashed on your screen to see if I won. Can you repeat it? I think I might have won. I think I might have won. Am I driveling/drivelling?

And, have you heard? There's been a request to Santa Fe for changing the city name "Truth or Consequences" to "Wheel of Fortune"? Both, according to languaging expert David Wynn Miller, are fictitious legal entities - just as is "United States of America".

"Wheel of Fortune" does have a much better sound to it for a town soo stuck in time. Maybe the "spin" nature of the name would move it forward. Maybe we could ALL win!

“Liberty and justice for all”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#22 Feb 2, 2010
homecontestant wrote:
"Wheel of Fortune" does have a much better sound to it for a town soo stuck in time. Maybe the "spin" nature of the name would move it forward. Maybe we could ALL win!
Now that's funny....

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