Prius sales soar as supply tightens

Toyota's Prius hybrid, the most fuel-efficient car sold in the U.S., is getting harder to find on dealer lots and commanding higher prices when customers do.

[James]

Once again the "big 3" have been caught with their pants down. They should have learned their lesson during the last gas crisis. Keep your gas guzzling cars, I like my Toyota, 39.5 MPG on my last tank.

[jinxer]

IMHO, for all its complexity, it should get 80 MPG and have plug-in 40 mile range capability (which it will if you upgrade it to A123 system's Hymotion battery packs for $10k).

Sad when cars of the 80's got better MPG. I dont want to hear the 'I aint driving one of those econobox arguments'. My 88 Honda CRX was pretty darn cool.

[OhioLovesYaBaby]

I tested a Prius for about 2 months. Overall, for the price, I do not think it is really worth the money. Though it is very roomy and rides well it has that sense of "how much plastic can a car company use?" which makes it feel cheap.

Yes, I am for better fuel economy though the hybrid technology should have a significant increase than a simple 45 mpg. Toyota claims to reach 100mpg in the next several years with all models being able to hit that magic number. With options such as the Camry, Highlander and I believe 4runner hybrids, Toyota will grab a huge market share of those who wish to drive a "eco friendly-wallet friendly" auto.

Ford has the hybrid Escape out and I know Chevy has some type of Flex Fuel vehicles out there. Dodge and Chrysler, hello?

The big three. Not so big.

[MV_Esq]

James wrote:

Once again the "big 3" have been caught with their pants down. They should have learned their lesson during the last gas crisis. Keep your gas guzzling cars, I like my Toyota, 39.5 MPG on my last tank.

My 99 Saturn gets about 36 MPG highway. Not bad, considering that it's paid off :) My husband's 04 Ford Focus does just as well.

Still, I do agree that the US car manufacturers have dropped the ball on the hybrid issue.

[George N]

James wrote:

Once again the "big 3" have been caught with their pants down. They should have learned their lesson during the last gas crisis. Keep your gas guzzling cars, I like my Toyota, 39.5 MPG on my last tank.

Toyota and the other Asian manufacturers didn't have the albatross of the UAW around their neck. With retirees outnumbering active workers three to one, the health care burden alone added $1500 to the cost of an American car. The stupidity of paying an autoworker at the level of a middle manager, and letting him retire with full benefits for himself and his family after 30 years, regardless of age, is now apparent. There are thousands of UAW retirees that have spent more time retired than actively working. The money for vehicle development was just not there.

[The Big Lebowski]

Well, switching from an SUV to a Prius is saving us about $400 a month right now. However, we do a lot of driving (30K+ miles a year), so our results are not typical. However, when you go from an SUV that averaged 16 MPG to a Prius that averages 48 MPG, you are going to save money.

Hybrids are a "gap" technology, but they are the best option available today. Eventually, many cars are going to be powered by electricity. However, the battery technology is not quite there yet, and neither is the infrastructure to allow drivers to recharge on longer trips.

The bottom line is to do what is right for you. In our case, the Prius was the best option.

[Voice of Reality]

Has anybody out there driven a Prius for more than 100k? I was wondering how the batteries hold up.

[The Big Lebowski]

Voice of Reality wrote:

Has anybody out there driven a Prius for more than 100k? I was wondering how the batteries hold up.

Toyota has an 8 year/100K mile warranty on the battery pack. In California, that gets increased to 10 years and 150K miles. Toyota claims that not one has required a battery replacement due to malfunction or "wearing out." The only replacement batteries sold--at the retail price of $3000--have been for cars that were involved in accidents.

To get maximum life out of the Prius battery pack, the car's computer brain does not allow the battery to fully charge or discharge. Toyota says that for the best service life, the Prius battery likes to be kept at about a 60 percent charge. In normal operation, the system usually lets the charge level vary only 10-15 percentage points. Therefore, the battery is rarely more than 75 percent charged, or less than 45 percent charged.

Evidently, the system works well, as there is a cab company in Vancouver that uses the Prius in its fleet. They put on 100K miles per year and have several Prius that they have run to over 250K+ miles with no battery problems.

[concerned citizen]

George N wrote:

<quoted text>
Toyota and the other Asian manufacturers didn't have the albatross of the UAW around their neck. With retirees outnumbering active workers three to one, the health care burden alone added $1500 to the cost of an American car. The stupidity of paying an autoworker at the level of a middle manager, and letting him retire with full benefits for himself and his family after 30 years, regardless of age, is now apparent. There are thousands of UAW retirees that have spent more time retired than actively working. The money for vehicle development was just not there.

why is the stupidity only "now" apparent? GM management has been stupid and uninspired. I dont believe for a second that they lacked money for research - Im sure they spent plenty and changing designs needlessly ( from one boring blah shape to the next)

[Voice of Reality]

Thanks Lebowski.

I've driven a Prius and liked it and have considered getting one. I do a lot of miles and would reach the 100k mark in 4 years or a little less.

I asked a local Toyota sales rep at the auto show the same question and he had no answers to my question.

Maybe you ought to consider offering the local Toyota dealer's association some sales training/product knowledge seminars for their sales staffs.

[volleygrrrrl]

Voice of Reality wrote:

Has anybody out there driven a Prius for more than 100k? I was wondering how the batteries hold up.

ours is approaching 90k and all is still good

[Hybrid question]

Can someone answer this? A friend told me that hybrids are not economical if you drive primarily on the highway (55 mph +) because the batteries only power the car at lower speeds. So, if you are driving the expressway mostly, your mileage will be about the same as a regular gas powered car. True?

[rootvg]

OhioLovesYaBaby wrote:

I tested a Prius for about 2 months. Overall, for the price, I do not think it is really worth the money. Though it is very roomy and rides well it has that sense of "how much plastic can a car company use?" which makes it feel cheap.
Yes, I am for better fuel economy though the hybrid technology should have a significant increase than a simple 45 mpg. Toyota claims to reach 100mpg in the next several years with all models being able to hit that magic number. With options such as the Camry, Highlander and I believe 4runner hybrids, Toyota will grab a huge market share of those who wish to drive a "eco friendly-wallet friendly" auto.
Ford has the hybrid Escape out and I know Chevy has some type of Flex Fuel vehicles out there. Dodge and Chrysler, hello?
The big three. Not so big.

I don't think the Detroit Three are going to be around in ten years.

Clearly, we're capable of doing better than this. Someone doesn't want us to do better.

[Toledo Tim]

George N wrote:

<quoted text>
Toyota and the other Asian manufacturers didn't have the albatross of the UAW around their neck. With retirees outnumbering active workers three to one, the health care burden alone added $1500 to the cost of an American car. The stupidity of paying an autoworker at the level of a middle manager, and letting him retire with full benefits for himself and his family after 30 years, regardless of age, is now apparent. There are thousands of UAW retirees that have spent more time retired than actively working. The money for vehicle development was just not there.

Blame the UAW?? Were they the only ones at the bargaining table? Did they get everything they wanted? Or was it management's idea to have future costs that they funded poorly (if at all)? And the UAW is not responsible for the designs the Big Three have trouble selling. Yes, the UAW shares in the blame (work rules, lazy workers, guys clocking in and leaving and then getting docked .1 hr pay for not clocking out), but management deserves blame also.

[Toledo Tim]

George N wrote:

<quoted text>
Toyota and the other Asian manufacturers didn't have the albatross of the UAW around their neck. With retirees outnumbering active workers three to one, the health care burden alone added $1500 to the cost of an American car. The stupidity of paying an autoworker at the level of a middle manager, and letting him retire with full benefits for himself and his family after 30 years, regardless of age, is now apparent. There are thousands of UAW retirees that have spent more time retired than actively working. The money for vehicle development was just not there.

And if the health care cost are that bad they why are the Big 3 closing plants in Canada - that certainly is not a problem up there.

[The Big Lebowski]

Hybrid question wrote:

Can someone answer this? A friend told me that hybrids are not economical if you drive primarily on the highway (55 mph +) because the batteries only power the car at lower speeds. So, if you are driving the expressway mostly, your mileage will be about the same as a regular gas powered car. True?

Not true.

While it is true that hybrids, by design, do better in the city than they do on the highway, you have to consider that their highway performance is better than what you are going to find on just about any other car on the road. In my case, on weekly trips to Columbus, I am averaging 46-48 MPG on the highway at 72 MPH.

In terms of the way the hybrid drive system works, there are plenty of times during the average highway trip where I am just running on battery power or am even just coasting. Mostly, this happens on long downhill grades.

[The Big Lebowski]

Kent Dawg wrote:

<quoted text> I just bought an 08 Caravan which uses E85 Flex Fuel so Chrysler does produce them. I like the van except for the mileage. With two kids and all the junk, I had to buy something larger. I would love to have a Prius, but there is no room to bring a stroller or more than the bare minimum on a trip.

Well, we have two kids as well and have no problems fitting their car seats in the backseat and their stroller in the rear cargo area. Heck, the rear hatch area has 14 cubic feet of cargo space -- which is about average for most cars. Unless you aren't folding your stroller, I don't see how you wouldn't get it and a whole lot of other stuff to fit in a Prius at the same time.

[Gas Saver]

Hybrid question wrote:

Can someone answer this? A friend told me that hybrids are not economical if you drive primarily on the highway (55 mph +) because the batteries only power the car at lower speeds. So, if you are driving the expressway mostly, your mileage will be about the same as a regular gas powered car. True?

The Toyota system uses both the battery pack and the internal combustion (ICE) to power the car at speeds greater than 43 MPH, so it will use gas but not as much as a conventionally-powered car. I drove my Camry Hybrid from Albuquerque to White Sands missile range (just over 250 miles) and back this past March. I set the cruise on 80 and averaged 41 MPG for the trip, even with the AC on for the entire trip back. My Camry seems to average between 38 and 41 MPG no matter whether used for city or highway driving - it's more a matter of how heavy my foot is.

[Next]

The UAW workers live the good life, while execs and white collars from the big three are starving and digging food out of a trash can :-)

George N wrote:

<quoted text>
Toyota and the other Asian manufacturers didn't have the albatross of the UAW around their neck. With retirees outnumbering active workers three to one, the health care burden alone added $1500 to the cost of an American car. The stupidity of paying an autoworker at the level of a middle manager, and letting him retire with full benefits for himself and his family after 30 years, regardless of age, is now apparent. There are thousands of UAW retirees that have spent more time retired than actively working. The money for vehicle development was just not there.

[May Fong]

Hybrid question wrote:

Can someone answer this? A friend told me that hybrids are not economical if you drive primarily on the highway (55 mph +) because the batteries only power the car at lower speeds. So, if you are driving the expressway mostly, your mileage will be about the same as a regular gas powered car. True?

my prius gets and average of 50 mpg on the highway With the gas engine. and the ac running.

We dont drive it much in the city. since we go from atwater to akron everyday for work.