Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31911 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Mixed

Lebanon, OH

#23056 Jan 17, 2013
Stay Alert Voters wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, the way I see it, there is consideration by the board of hiring a professional to conduct ONLY a study on the feasibility of a conversion school; There was NO push from any of the board members on January 10 to cast their VOTE for a charter school that would be better for the education of Springboro children. There was strong opposition from some teachers and parents to the board's discussion of the proposed contract to hire a professional group to conduct a study exploring WHY a conversion school should be consideration.
One parent strongly opined he did not want his child in a school with no union teacher. One teacher stated that instead of exploring unmet needs of our students, that the money should be spend on teacher professional development; other parent pointed out facts upon which their opinion in favor of the study was based.
Springboro school board member, Jim Rigano, has an informative article in the Springboro Sun dated January 10, 2013 in which he dispels some false rumors and addresses in detail "Why Consider A Conversion School?"
Mr. Rigano's message concludes by stating: "The decision about this school is a local one and our focus needs to be on our schools, community, and our kids. We can't be afraid to investigate a change that could potentially benefit many students and parents."
Being among those attending the January 10 meeting, it is my understanding that the school board members voted 3-2 in favor of tabling the vote on the contract presented to the board by the consulting firm; because their were revisions needed in order for the contract to meet the strict conditions that our school board members demand.
Those who favor investing our tax dollars in the feasibility study are hopeful the Springboro Board of Education will bring back to the public a proposal on a REVISED contract; so that the vote can then be taken to push onward...toward real achievements and higher standards than we currently demand (based on the real facts).
You don't have a problem that the BOE is essentially giving this company 15,000 dollars? This company is gonna say yes no matter what....I have a problem with them just giving a company 15,000 dollars.
parent

Germantown, OH

#23057 Jan 17, 2013
Proud Parent Boro Grads wrote:
<quoted text>
Shouldn't our regular community school district be responsible for raising the bar & "raising proficient students to acceleratede?"
I'm a parent of a number of children, all still in this district. There's a lingering collective problem within ours schools we as a community really have to understand. By far the majority of teachers in Springboro are tremendous and creative, as well as super individuals. At the same time we have a number of teachers who don't belong in the classroom for a lot of reasons. Some of them may have made the wrong career decision and may not put alot of heart into what they're doing. Some of them are obviously burnt out.-(we have known one who could do almost nothing to hide this burnout). Worst of all, there was a certain teacher who have flaunted in front of their classroom that because they're tenured, they could never lose their job.

If there was any way this very small minority of bad teachers could be sorted out and fired, I'm sure our regular community school district would be able to raise our childrens bar from proficient to something alot better.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23058 Jan 17, 2013
Mixed wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have a problem that the BOE is essentially giving this company 15,000 dollars? This company is gonna say yes no matter what....I have a problem with them just giving a company 15,000 dollars.
What is wrong with investigating the potential here in Springboro? I sat in the room with these guys during Budget and Finance Committee meetings watching them question and delve into answers to find the real piece of information they were looking to obtain. They drove past the platitudes, the pat answers, the answers that sounded good until you realize they said nothing, to get to the point. I hardly think they will let you down now in their investigation of the negatives and the positives of the concept.

If money is such an issue, were you among those asking the Superintendent to collect the $90,000 or so owed to the district from Springboro Youth Basketball?

Did you protest the fact that the Superintendent waived that $90,000 or so?

Did you bother to look at the new contract Springboro Youth Basketball received?

Did you come out to demand accountability when the Boosters found out that hundreds of thousands of dollars had disappeared from their accounts? Money that was supposed to go to offset the cost of our sporting program that vanished because no one was doing the due diligence that the job required.

Are you among those who will gladly spend an additional $50,000 to pass a renewal levy without batting an eye?

I am not only Just Watching, but also just curious.
cheese on the cracker

Germantown, OH

#23059 Jan 17, 2013
parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm a parent of a number of children, all still in this district. There's a lingering collective problem within ours schools we as a community really have to understand. By far the majority of teachers in Springboro are tremendous and creative, as well as super individuals. At the same time we have a number of teachers who don't belong in the classroom for a lot of reasons. Some of them may have made the wrong career decision and may not put alot of heart into what they're doing. Some of them are obviously burnt out.-(we have known one who could do almost nothing to hide this burnout). Worst of all, there was a certain teacher who have flaunted in front of their classroom that because they're tenured, they could never lose their job.

If there was any way this very small minority of bad teachers could be sorted out and fired, I'm sure our regular community school district would be able to raise our childrens bar from proficient to something alot better.
Please forward constructive suggestions such as this to [email protected]
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23060 Jan 17, 2013
Ohio Graduation Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2012 test

Reading
Advanced.......79%-100%
Accelerated.....63.5%-78%
Proficient.........40.6%-63.4%

If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Reading.

Springboro had 88 students out of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.

Math
Advanced.......75%-100%
Accelerated....61%-74%
Proficient........42%-60%

If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Math.

Springboro had 40 students our of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.

They further REDUCED the number of questions correct that you needed to reach the various achievement levels down a question from the 2011 already low levels.
reality

Germantown, OH

#23061 Jan 17, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Ohio Graduation Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2012 test
Reading
Advanced.......79%-100%
Accelerated.....63.5%-78%
Proficient.........40.6%-63.4%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Reading.
Springboro had 88 students out of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
Math
Advanced.......75%-100%
Accelerated....61%-74%
Proficient........42%-60%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Math.
Springboro had 40 students our of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
They further REDUCED the number of questions correct that you needed to reach the various achievement levels down a question from the 2011 already low levels.
To summarize...
In reading, 23% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.
In math, 10% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.

Now just for a moment, try to place yourself in the sneakers of a typical hormone-enraged Boro 15-year-old.
Regardless of how their parents probably feel, a certain percentage out of this 23% and 10% are kids who couldn't care less about their futures and are living 100% in the moment.
Students like this are the way they are for multitudes of reasons, usually much of it having to do with dysfunction at home.
What if anything can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like this?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23062 Jan 17, 2013
Remember this test rates children on how much of the curriculum they learned in grades 1-9.

This test is taken in May of their 10th grade year. Go look at the practice test on the ODE website. Not overly demanding.

Would you be more impressed to find out that 39% can't write a coherent sentence?

21% with hardly any knowledge of science whatsoever?

Or 20% that have only the faintest knowledge of government and the people of the world?

I though we were better than that?
reality

Germantown, OH

#23063 Jan 17, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Remember this test rates children on how much of the curriculum they learned in grades 1-9.
This test is taken in May of their 10th grade year. Go look at the practice test on the ODE website. Not overly demanding.
Would you be more impressed to find out that 39% can't write a coherent sentence?
21% with hardly any knowledge of science whatsoever?
Or 20% that have only the faintest knowledge of government and the people of the world?
I though we were better than that?
Reading 23%
Reading comprehension 39%
Science 21%
Social Studies 20%
Math 10%

Something we must keep in mind when looking at this is many students have tested proficient or below in one or more subject.

In answering my own question...
If we as a community choose to have a conversion school, it needs to not be exclusively an elite destination for our "gifted" students.
To be fair to every living breathing soul this community, facilities and faculty within a Boro conversion school would have to be for students who have demonstated they have a learning issue, every bit as much as those who have been labelled "gifted".
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23064 Jan 17, 2013
Or just for those kids who are not getting it period. Those rated Proficient and below.

What differene does it make if the kids do better?
Mixed

Lebanon, OH

#23065 Jan 17, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Or just for those kids who are not getting it period. Those rated Proficient and below.
What differene does it make if the kids do better?
Doug, find a new hobby and get off topix
Really

Piqua, OH

#23066 Jan 17, 2013
blogg this wrote:
<quoted text>
Please remember that Lebanon has a very large % of students that do not even speak English and they scored better than Springboro. OUCH
Lebanon did not score better than Springboro; they scored lower in every category except one. Furthermore, Springboro had a higher percentage of students score in the Advanced category than practically every test taken by Lebanon. Also, I would hardly say that 1.4% of students that are Limited English Proficient is a "very large % of students".
Why no answers

Columbus, OH

#23067 Jan 17, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Lebanon did not score better than Springboro; they scored lower in every category except one. Furthermore, Springboro had a higher percentage of students score in the Advanced category than practically every test taken by Lebanon. Also, I would hardly say that 1.4% of students that are Limited English Proficient is a "very large % of students".
Would you also say that scoring 61% on a test was accelerated? Or failing?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#23068 Jan 17, 2013
i am beginning to think most of the supporters of the union don't really care one way or another about the kids. As long as their kids are doing fine then what difference does the rest of it make. It's starting to look a lot like the kid's sports programs only with academics. I will take care of my kid first, the rest of you are window dressing. Sad
Re-cap

Piqua, OH

#23069 Jan 17, 2013
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- All union teachers - in general hate them but cant get rid of them (hmmm charter schools - a possibility)
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done), push out rest with incentives - done
- Tenured teachers - really hate but what to do - lets complain and make them feel unwanted and hopefully they leave town
- Teachers requesting tenure - get rid of them - easy enough
- Young teachers making minimum $- love them but let's not give them any more money

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, anyone that wants to help teachers - call them nasty names and degrade them on this blog site - done!

Way to go Springboro citizens - real class act you got going on there.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23070 Jan 17, 2013
Thanks re-cap, for taking on the Topix bullies!
oops

Germantown, OH

#23071 Jan 17, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done)
LOL! Watch out! That Freudian slip of yours is showing!
And yes, after last Thursday evening the good people of Boro realize the majority of SEA supporters... have poor PRINCIPLES!
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#23072 Jan 17, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- All union teachers - in general hate them but cant get rid of them (hmmm charter schools - a possibility)
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done), push out rest with incentives - done
- Tenured teachers - really hate but what to do - lets complain and make them feel unwanted and hopefully they leave town
- Teachers requesting tenure - get rid of them - easy enough
- Young teachers making minimum $- love them but let's not give them any more money
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, anyone that wants to help teachers - call them nasty names and degrade them on this blog site - done!
Way to go Springboro citizens - real class act you got going on there.
Wow, the poor teachers, how about some empathy for the children that we leave behind in the classroom year after year? Who do you suppose the real victims might be?

Some teachers are outstanding, some are good, some are mediocre, and some are bad. Seems like they represent a cross section, just like every other profession. The martyr thing isn't working.
Out of Towner

Greenville, OH

#23073 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- All union teachers - in general hate them but cant get rid of them (hmmm charter schools - a possibility)
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done), push out rest with incentives - done
- Tenured teachers - really hate but what to do - lets complain and make them feel unwanted and hopefully they leave town
- Teachers requesting tenure - get rid of them - easy enough
- Young teachers making minimum $- love them but let's not give them any more money
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, anyone that wants to help teachers - call them nasty names and degrade them on this blog site - done!
Way to go Springboro citizens - real class act you got going on there.
Great job recap!!!!!! You are starting to expose the KOOLAID DRINKERS. Could not agree with you more...You should now be called the "VOICE OF REASON"...
Jim Jones Lives

Lebanon, OH

#23074 Jan 18, 2013
Out of Towner wrote:
<quoted text>
Great job recap!!!!!! You are starting to expose the KOOLAID DRINKERS. Could not agree with you more...You should now be called the "VOICE OF REASON"...
I guess if you want to live in Jonestown.

Are the assessment scores right or wrong?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23075 Jan 18, 2013
Irrespective of where you come down on the issues, it ultimately arrives at the point where we have to decide if we are doing as well as we can. Is there absolutely no other way of doing things? Are we condemned to the same way of doing things that we have always done?

Are these 2000 plus children scoring BELOW 63% on their assessment test doomed to that fate forever?

How long should these children wait?

Each day, each month, each year that ticks by is forever lost to those children.

While we dither and cast aspersions, another child's future slips further to the wayside.

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