Strange & Unusual - Anti-Mormon DVD Given to 18,000 Homes

By Jim Walsh The Arizona Republic MESA, AZ -- A ministry opposed to Mormonism distributed 18,000 copies of a DVD to homes across the state on Sunday as part of a nationwide effort to persuade members to leave ... Full Story
steve

United States

#637 Jul 9, 2013
When you obtain your exaltation. When your elevate yourself to your own diety. When you obtain your own godship,give me a call,the dane. I would like to see that.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#638 Jul 9, 2013
Knowing my luck it will never happen. By the Lord's grace; however, I honestly think I am better today than I used to be. Deification was taught by church fathers. It is not unique to Mormonism. Look it up and give me an argument. Give me reasons Steve.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#639 Jul 9, 2013
quilterqueen wrote:
Great Dane - even if you are trying to defend your beliefs, I don't think you are gaining any points for your church.
Why not quit trying?
I am searching for the truth. I am not trying to gain converts. People can believe whatever they want, but to convince me they must give me reasons AND I have to feel good about it. I don't follow anybody blindly, not even Mormon church leaders. I try to follow the truth.
steve

United States

#640 Jul 10, 2013
What is the truth? Nothing abstract. Where is it found? In one entry you appear to be strongly mormon;in another,rather vague. If mormonism is the truth,then why? Reasons other than it works for you or people treat you well. If it is the truth,then should'nt it be the truth for all? Specifically,what is it in mormon theology that seperates it? Defines it,emperically,as the truth? Mormons stress the truth of there faith but are very vague on giving specific reasons,theologically,as to the justification of this truth? I don't know if they don't know,they don't want to reveal what they really believe or they are taught not to.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#641 Jul 11, 2013
steve wrote:
What is the truth? Nothing abstract. Where is it found? In one entry you appear to be strongly mormon;in another,rather vague. If mormonism is the truth,then why? Reasons other than it works for you or people treat you well. If it is the truth,then should'nt it be the truth for all? Specifically,what is it in mormon theology that seperates it? Defines it,emperically,as the truth? Mormons stress the truth of there faith but are very vague on giving specific reasons,theologically,as to the justification of this truth? I don't know if they don't know,they don't want to reveal what they really believe or they are taught not to.
Great question. Not sure if I can answer it, but I will try. Truth is what is really real. Mormonism is not truth. Truth is truth. Truth is bigger than Mormonism. When Mormons say they have the true church they should say they have the only authorized church. Peter James and John and others came to Joseph Smith and gave him the authorization to start again a church authorized by God. Mormons nor their scriptures nor their leaders are infallible, but overall because we have divine authorization I think we do a better job with truth. I will continue in the next thread.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#642 Jul 11, 2013
Mormons teach we should learn truth from all sources. We learn from science, experience, our feelings, our reasoning, studying, and even from other religions. When science and religion do not match then we do not totally reject either one we just feel something is missing in one or the other or that the scripture must have not meant literally what we took it to mean. When God told Moses and Joseph Smith about the creation of the earth he told them in terms that they could understand, not the whole truth. God can not tell us the whole truth because we are not ready for it. I will continue.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#643 Jul 11, 2013
When we are wondering whether or not something is true or whether we should do something we should check our feelings, our thoughts, the scriptures, church leaders, and secular experts. It they do not all agree than sometimes we have to put it on hold. Let me give you an example: Should I smoke? My feelings, thoughts, the scriptures, church leaders, and secular experts agree so I probably should pray about it, check my feelings and not smoke.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#644 Jul 11, 2013
It is hard to define truth in Mormonism. It is all the universes and all the dimensions. It is all things that are real. Perhaps even our thoughts are real. As evidence that Mormons have more truth in some areas I would point to the following: We have the best welfare program in the world. We are one of the most ubiquitous (spelling) religions on earth or in other words we are pretty much all over the world so we appeal to more than one culture. Overall as a whole our morals are pretty good compared to others. We are not anti science or anti education. We are not afraid to listen to others such as atheists, Catholics, ect. The only way to experience Mormonism; however, is to do it. You can not really know the benefits of being generous or stop looking at pornography, or stop smoking until you do it, and even then each of us is different and it has to be applied individually. Hope this helps.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#645 Jul 11, 2013
Other evidences that Mormonism is true are the following: Without government help we became a world religion. Very few can say this. We have documented miracles. We have scriptures that are modern yet very closely resemble ancient text which Joseph Smith could not know about. First Nephi and the tale of the Rechabites are just one example. No other religion can claim this. Mohammed had no witnesses when he saw Gabriel. Budah had no witnesses. Jehovah Witnesses do not even believe in miracles. Only ancient Judaism, ancient Christianity, and Mormonism have scriptures with evidence and miracles. Have you gone to Jeff Lindsay, or Fair LDS? They do a better job than I do.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#646 Jul 11, 2013
Truth to a Mormon is not so much knowing everything in the universe as we are not ready for that, but taking what we do know and applying it appropriately.
The Dane

Bountiful, UT

#647 Jul 11, 2013
Now Steve, I have answered you. Please answer me. What group or idea out there do you think is superior to Mormonism and why?
steve

United States

#648 Jul 12, 2013
You still did'nt answer the question. What are the theological doctrines of the mormon faith which set it apart,make it true? The core spiritual beliefs. What is the very nature of God? Is Jesus Christ true God and true man? Is his presence in the Eucharist real or just a concept? Is there but one God(monotheism)or many? If monotheistic,is he trinitarian in nature? If polytheistic,what is the explanation for this? Where does divinity begin and end? Are we simply his creatures or are we elevated beings who,like him,are destined for divinity? Is salvation attained through our own efforts or but through the grace of God? How does this all play out if one believes in polytheism? Just the tip.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#649 Jul 13, 2013
steve wrote:
You still did'nt answer the question. What are the theological doctrines of the mormon faith which set it apart,make it true? The core spiritual beliefs. What is the very nature of God? Is Jesus Christ true God and true man? Is his presence in the Eucharist real or just a concept? Is there but one God(monotheism)or many? If monotheistic,is he trinitarian in nature? If polytheistic,what is the explanation for this? Where does divinity begin and end? Are we simply his creatures or are we elevated beings who,like him,are destined for divinity? Is salvation attained through our own efforts or but through the grace of God? How does this all play out if one believes in polytheism? Just the tip.
Ok now that you are more specific, I can be more specific. I can only answer what you ask. What you are demanding is that I put Mormonism in Catholic, Protestant, or secular terms. Trouble is it is neither of these, but I digress I will try to play your game. The nature of God. God means two things in Mormonism. One definition is the light and power or intelligence which is not a person but the mysterious power that emanates everywhere that make things work. This is one so in this sense we are monotheistic. On the other hand we believe numerous beings have advanced beyond being human or angels and are Gods. Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are all Gods. They are three Gods who use the same one power. There are infinite amount of Gods. We pray to Heavenly Father and i some cases pray to Jesus when in his presence or asking for sin. We do not pray to other Gods. In the sense we are bi-henotheists which is a type of polytheism but does not share the same conatation. I will continue.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#650 Jul 13, 2013
Sorry i meant we pray to Jesus when asking forgiveness of sin or when we are in his presence as there are examples of this in scripture. Is Jesus fully God and fully man. Are Mormons Nestorian? Tough to say we just believe he had attributes of both and we do not know what the percentages were. He was enough man and enough God to do his mission. Spiritually the Eucharist fills us but not physically or in a canabalist manner. It should fill us with his spirit or the Holy Ghost. It is more than a Calvanist symbol but less than a real physical presence. There is no beginning and there is no end. You do not go to the edge of the universe or the end of time and find a cement wall. The universe is always changing but it has always existed. The world was organized, not created. Our intelligences are not his creation but our spirits are in a sense as we are his spiritual children. In an indirect sense he also created our bodies.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#651 Jul 13, 2013
We do not believe in Salvation like other Christians do so that is impossible to answer. We believe because of Christ's grace all humans who bow before Jesus and acknowledge him will be spared permanent death and permanent hell. We will all experience a little bit of temporary hell and temporary death. Christ will judge us. We will not be judged by simply the law or what we deserve but it will be more merciful. Christ will grant higher rewards to those he feels deserved it, but there is no way we are all judged the same as we are all different.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#652 Jul 13, 2013
The highest reward will be to be like our Father in Heaven or Theosis, but none of us really know what that is. In plain terms we will be Gods, but what that means nobody knows. We will not replace God but all that he has will be ours.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#653 Jul 13, 2013
We also believe everybody will have a fair chance to accept Jesus or reject him, if not in this life than in the life to come. The only ones who will totally reject him will be those who choose to be with the devil. God will not force you to be with him.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#654 Jul 13, 2013
Hope this helps Steve. To those of you who are Mormon please forgive my phraseology. I am trying to translate into Catholic and Protestant terms and sometimes things are lost in translation so did not wish to offend, it is just hard to translate.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#655 Jul 13, 2013
The problem I think you have Steve is that you seem to be taking what Mormons say and applying them to your own theology which can sound like blasphemy. When I say theosis I do not mean I become the one ultimate source of truth and power, I just become more in harmony with it. A God in Mormonism is an advanced human not the end all of the universe.
Great Dane

Bountiful, UT

#656 Jul 13, 2013
Now Steve please answer me, have you gone to Jeff Lindsay or Fair LDS. Those are two good Mormon apologetic places to start.

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