Authorities say men who died diving o...

Authorities say men who died diving off Key Largo didn't follow...

There are 36 comments on the South Florida Sun-Sentinel story from Mar 17, 2007, titled Authorities say men who died diving off Key Largo didn't follow.... In it, South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that:

The New Jersey divers who died after becoming trapped in a dangerous Key Largo wreck didn't follow proper safety procedures and entered a zone of the sunken ship that was supposed to be off-limits, authorities ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

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SFN

West Palm Beach, FL

#22 Mar 18, 2007
Ah... I am back online, I should be so thankfull to FPL.

As Jim mentioned, people get certified and think they know it all. I have logged hundreds of dives, and I am sure others with more experience than me will agree, you never know everything, we continue to learn every time we dive.

The strobe light comment still bugs me. Its not about darkness, one can see strobe lights in the dark easy, BUT not in silt or around corners or the batteries crap out on you. Diving in a weck one can become disoriented very easily. They were FOOLS for not useing a line.

None the less, here in south florida will always hear of the inexperienced AND experienced having a tragedy. Very simply, the divers botched the dive. Again there is no reason for such a simple dive. There is no excuse. And as has been shown, there is NO room for error.

My condolences to the family.
Fishh

Miami, FL

#23 Mar 18, 2007
What is the purpose of diving into a place, that according to the authorities, the visibility is zero, because of the darkness and the silt.? Diving to fish or observe the marine life makes more sense to me!
NJ Diver

New Brunswick, NJ

#24 Mar 18, 2007
Johnny diver wrote:
these guys didnt know what they were doing and look what happened, a lesson for all of us to learn, PLAN your dive Dive your plan !
Unless you know the facts...you should all keep your uneducated mouths shut.
And respect the lives that were lost.
If you rely on the media solely for your information in life...you are a sad human being.
SFN

West Palm Beach, FL

#25 Mar 18, 2007
NJ Diver wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you know the facts...you should all keep your uneducated mouths shut.
And respect the lives that were lost.
If you rely on the media solely for your information in life...you are a sad human being.
As part of the diving community we all regret what happen, as locals we are especially angry becuase it makes the recreation look bad. We are angry rightfully so that there was no reason for this accident to occure. This was a simple dive. This dive could have been done with simple air without a dive computer, BUT for god sakes you do not go with out a safety line!
SFN

West Palm Beach, FL

#26 Mar 18, 2007
Fishh wrote:
What is the purpose of diving into a place, that according to the authorities, the visibility is zero, because of the darkness and the silt.? Diving to fish or observe the marine life makes more sense to me!
Adventure/Exploration

Hell I would do it too.

My bet is disorientation, failure to monitor air supply. NARC/ They mentioned failure for adequate air supply/placement of tanks. That could translate into a.k.a nothing.

If they were all technical certified divers, than why did one choose not to go? Smart sense to recognize a bad situation. There are alot of tell tell signs that this was NOT a planned technical wreck dive.
SFN

West Palm Beach, FL

#27 Mar 18, 2007
correction last sentence should have been...

...was NOT a PROPERLY planned... dive.
BILL

Auburn Hills, MI

#28 Mar 18, 2007
SFN wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I think its the other way around. "Its never anyones fault" thinking is repulsive in todays society. No one takes responsibility these days. I get hit from behind by a car and the driver offers no apology not even "are you ok" I do not even have to say how I proceed in those situations.
Fact is unexpected things can happen, bottom line, it is there fault no matter what. The divers were placing themselves in a RISK situation, not even talking about entering the ship, just scuba diving itself.
The fact that the divers did NOT use a LINE is very telling. "Strob lights", are you kidding me!
That dive IS very simple, like other posters have said before me, they went in with a sloppy dive plan, and they got what they deserved. There are no excusses. There is NO reason for something like this to occure.
I admit even myself I have pulled some stupid stunts. With calculated risk. What I have done once or twice, I did knowingly, that I placed myself at risk. Obviously these divers did so as well, abit to much.
$hit I just lost my power...
AMEN, IT IS THERE OWN FAULT.
Colleen

Monroe Township, NJ

#29 Mar 18, 2007
Something is really bothering me. The guy that lived --Spialter -- had the hand of Stanley, one of the men that died. Stanley wrestled himself free from Spialter's grip and went back into the wreck toward my friend Kevin and Walsweer. Stanley was later found deep in the ship, along with Walsweer. My friend Kevin was found near an exit in the boat. Could it be that Stanley knew Walsweer was in trouble, and went back in to help? And since Kevin was found near an exit and nowhere near his 2 friends, was on his way out also to get help when he lost oxygen? Why would Stanley go back into the wreck unless something was wrong? I have a gut feeling Kevin stayed with Walsweer while Stanley went for help. When Stanley reached Spialter on the outside of the ship, perhaps it was to let him know something was wrong. Maybe Spialter didn't understand or maybe he needed to get out of there before he lost oxygen too. But Stanley went back in. That is weird people. And later, Kevin was found near an exit, but Stanley was found in the depths of the ship near Walsweer, even though he clearly could've gone to the surface with Spialter and saved himself. Something had to go wrong here. I believe it in my heart.
Last Dive

United States

#30 Mar 19, 2007
To the guy who keeps saying that his friends did nothing wrong: HEY STOOPID, THEY'RE DEAD. If that's your idea of a good dive, please let me know the name of your scuba diving school so that everyone else can avoid it.
bluewaterdiver74

Crawfordville, FL

#31 Mar 19, 2007
After reading the thread attached to this article, I can't help but think that we are so focused on placing blame on the divers, their inadequate plan or even the wreck itself that we have failed to mention that diving in and of itself is a dangerous sport. But as an insurance and risk management professional I can tell you that life itself is a dangerous sport - think about how many traffic accidents we have a day or even how many people choke on the food they eat. I have done the Speigel many times with many of my buddies under a multitude of conditions and can tell you that it is one of the most awesome dives I have done (and we have logged close to 500 dives in the last 5 years). But we always had a plan, a back up plan, and plenty of training to handle the situations we were putting ourselves into. These divers probably were extremely skilled, they probably did have a plan, and they probably did run into trouble which ultimately led to their deaths which is tragic. But every diver who has ever contemplated a dive has also contemplated what happens when a dive goes badly. We know there are risks involved and that the ultimate payment could be with your very life, but do you always go about your day worrying that you are going to forfeit your life for your actions? People need to remember that the sport is dangerous and that this is a technical dive without ever penetrating the wreck, but diving can be rewarding in ways that you cannot fathom until you've attempted it and this dive can be an incredibly rewarding dive for the sheer experience of it. I am saddened that these men died, but given a choice, I'd much rather perish doing something I am passionate about.
Clearwater Dave

Bradenton, FL

#32 Mar 19, 2007
In accident investigation, you usually don't find "one thing" that goes wrong - you find an "error chain", that nothing failed to stop, Unless they all had heart attacks, each of these dead guys made a series of mistakes, and failed to break the chain of events that lead to their deaths. No cave reel = poor dive planning for the first & biggest mistake.

Stay out of Florida if you don't know how to dive
SFN

West Palm Beach, FL

#33 Mar 20, 2007
Colleen wrote:
Something is really bothering me. The guy that lived --Spialter -- had the hand of Stanley, one of the men that died. Stanley wrestled himself free from Spialter's grip and went back into the wreck toward my friend Kevin and Walsweer. Stanley was later found deep in the ship, along with Walsweer. My friend Kevin was found near an exit in the boat. Could it be that Stanley knew Walsweer was in trouble, and went back in to help? And since Kevin was found near an exit and nowhere near his 2 friends, was on his way out also to get help when he lost oxygen? Why would Stanley go back into the wreck unless something was wrong? I have a gut feeling Kevin stayed with Walsweer while Stanley went for help. When Stanley reached Spialter on the outside of the ship, perhaps it was to let him know something was wrong. Maybe Spialter didn't understand or maybe he needed to get out of there before he lost oxygen too. But Stanley went back in. That is weird people. And later, Kevin was found near an exit, but Stanley was found in the depths of the ship near Walsweer, even though he clearly could've gone to the surface with Spialter and saved himself. Something had to go wrong here. I believe it in my heart.
Sounds like someone got lost and the others attempted to locate the lost diver but ran out of air.

The notation that one was located close to an exit is a shame, we are taught to surface without an air supply, it is very easy to do, the small remaining air supply in your chest expands greatly upon slowly swiming to the surface.

Unfortunately at that great depth, when you run out of air, you run out of air fast! The comment also confirm that there was NO spare tanks at all!

Even if one diver was injured, the other divers simply drag the diver out. Again, no safty line, one gets lost, others try to search, and die trying.

If it was my fiend lost in a wrech, I would try to do something as well, however, doing something that would then kill myself would benefit nobody, except the guilt and blame why didn't I do something more to save my friend. But I would have had a saftey line to begin with in the first place.
SFN

West Palm Beach, FL

#34 Mar 20, 2007
The dive computers will be able to show alot more info, just like a planes black box, expecially if air integrated, monitoring breathing rates.
Arjen The Netherlands

Netherlands

#35 Mar 21, 2007
bluewaterdiver74 wrote:
--cut--, I can't help but think that we are so focused on placing blame on the divers, their inadequate plan or even the wreck itself that we have failed to mention that diving in and of itself is a dangerous sport.--cut--. But we always had a plan, a back up plan, and plenty of training to handle the situations we were putting ourselves into. These divers probably were extremely skilled, they probably did have a plan, and they probably did run into trouble which ultimately led to their deaths which is tragic. But every diver who has ever contemplated a dive has also contemplated what happens when a dive goes badly. We know there are risks involved and that the ultimate payment could be with your very life, but do you always go about your day worrying that you are going to forfeit your life for your actions?--cut-- I am saddened that these men died, but given a choice, I'd much rather perish doing something I am passionate about.
When you look at all the diving accidents which happen all over the world and you look closely, then you will find out that more than 95% of all accidents are due to diver error. It’s a combination of among others, lack of training, bad and/or incomplete kit, bad judgment, mismanagement of gas supply, bad planning and most important of all, underestimation of possible dangers and overestimation of ones and buddy’s skills. This type of discussion has place all over the world,(I’m from the Netherlands) and it’s always the same. Yes, when diving you take risks, but in your planning you’ll make sure the risks are as small as possible. I love diving to much to perish during diving. I’d like to die when I’m old and have seen the world! These guys made a serious error. You just don’t use strobe lights when penetrating an enclosed space, you use a reel and guidelines. When the light dies or there is a silt-out or you get lost and can not see the light anymore, you have a serious problem. And you definitely make sure you have enough air. Twin cylinders on your back and at least a rule of thirds dive planning. Anything less and too much can go wrong. That is not minimizing risks.
Scuba Miami

Boca Raton, FL

#36 Apr 4, 2007
Scott, was a personal friend of my family and owned the dive shop that I received my open water cert. He was a very experienced diver and a great guy. All of these guys had been diving for decades and were very experienced in deep wreck diving and penetration.

Please respect the dead and if you bases your assumptions on what you read then you are the Idiot!

Jared Emin
www.scubamiami.com
Pkirby Moscow Russia

Germany

#37 Apr 4, 2007
Scuba Miami wrote:
Scott, was a personal friend of my family and owned the dive shop that I received my open water cert. He was a very experienced diver and a great guy. All of these guys had been diving for decades and were very experienced in deep wreck diving and penetration.
Please respect the dead and if you bases your assumptions on what you read then you are the Idiot!
Jared Emin
www.scubamiami.com
What is the REAL truth? Others said the media didn't know all the facts? We divers would like to evaluate the accident so that we could learn from any mistakes that might have been made. Let us know.

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