Ethanol changes fuel strong reader reaction

[BuckStripes]

6 actual wrote:

ANWR is a drop in the bucket. The problem stems from US, way back when we were so concewrned with the "Third World" not having farm tractors, cars, electrical power and such. Well, we got them all those things and more, and look at the result. Now all those "Third Worlders" are our competitors for the shrinking resources. Jaguar autos made in India. Who woulda thunk it. Also, who on this post can tell me just where all that Alaskan oil is being shipped?? Is it going to California, Texas?? Which refinery??

...Most of it is supposed to be going into the U.S. Reserves--Salt Domes on the Gulf Coast. Now hold 701-million barrels. Receive 77-thousand barrels per day. The reserve is currently 97% full...Big flap now is over whether we should tap in for US consumer use...VS--Better have it for military, if-and-when another war breaks out, and foreign oil is shorted or stopped...

[Chris]

Green machine wrote:

<quoted text>
The only thing that is a scam is that you have any semblence of intelligence. Since I have gone green in my home, I have cut my energy usage by 27% and putting out less CO2. Wise up chump. Help save the earth by doing your part. GO GREEN NOW!

Well la-de-da to you. Big freaking deal.

[reason]

BuckStripes wrote:

<quoted text>
...Most of it is supposed to be going into the U.S. Reserves--Salt Domes on the Gulf Coast. Now hold 701-million barrels. Receive 77-thousand barrels per day. The reserve is currently 97% full...Big flap now is over whether we should tap in for US consumer use...VS--Better have it for military, if-and-when another war breaks out, and foreign oil is shorted or stopped...

I'd say save it ... it's worth more every passing day.

[PGZ]

Mark wrote:

<quoted text>
While the oil sands in Canada aren't the property of America, the oil shale in the Rockies is. Largely the same for ANWR. Gulf may or may not, depending on how far out. For that which is, Uncle gets $$$ based on how smart they are when they award the contracts. And opening up 100 years worth of oil will tend to lower the price, no matter who gets the $$$. Of course, our refinery situation is also pathetic. How many years since we've built a new one? And just when the oil companies were getting ready to leap through the flaming hoops set out by our wonderful EPA, Congress goes and mandates ethanol. That means even if the oil companies blow their money appeasing the EPAnuts, they may not be able to amortize the cost of the new refineries. Things like that don't make their shareholders happy. And unhappy shareholders pull stunts like Icahn is doing to Yahoo.

I was making a point that many people are saying that there is a huge supply of oil out there without saying that it has a price. It is not free. That price, whether it comes from Canada, Saudi Arabia or ANWR, is based on the market. Sure extra supply may drive down the price a bit, but that is not taking into consideration the increased demand domestically and in emerging nations. The only way for the extra supply to drive down the prices would be to flood (figuratively) the world with cheap oil. In order to have cheap oil, you don't necessarily have to have an overabundance. You need companies willing to sell it at less than what others are selling it for.
Will the American oil companies sell the final product at a lower price than they can get on the world market. No chance. Say they get 50% of their oil from overseas. It costs them (just for argument sake)$50 a barrel to pull it out of Alaska and it costs them $100 a barrel to buy it from the Sauds. Will they split the difference and sell the final byproducts at the equivalent of $75 a barrel? No way. They will sell it all for the equivalent of the greater price and pocket a tidy profit. Its what is called capitalism. They can price it as they wish to benefit their company and shareholders.
New refineries will not drive down the price of gasoline. The ones they have now are running at 85% capacity and we do not have a gas shortage. There is plenty of supply (whether from overseas or domestic). The fact is that we have the raw material costing so much that the final byproduct of gasoline is so expensive.
Now if we drill our own, we won't be so dependent on foreign oil, which is a good thing, but it won't lower the price for us until the global price lowers.
The only things right now that will help the price of gas is to improve the strength of the dollar (on which the price of oil is based) and/or if the oil companies sell their product for less. Both of those things are out of our hands as individuals, but conservation isn't. It can reduce the dependence and the cost to ourselves, but some sacrifice is involved.

[Tangerine King]

Chris wrote:

<quoted text>
Well la-de-da to you. Big freaking deal.

You may want to try to go green yourself there country bumpkin. But then again, you live in "tangerine" I'm sure your trailer and outhouse is as green as your mommas teeth are. Clean up your act BOY.

[BuckStripes]

reason wrote:

<quoted text>
I'd say save it ... it's worth more every passing day.

...The US Strategic Oil Reserve:
...I wouldn't touch it either. This country can be brought to its knees in a hurry, if our Armed Forces suddenly are cut off from foreign oil supplies...And we are not beloved in several countries which supply much of our oil...From the MidEast to South America (Venezuela)...
...

[Kahona]

Chris wrote:

<quoted text>
You're a regular genius, aren't you? Obviously, I'm no where near tangerine j@ck@ss.
You emasculated envirofreaks make me sick.

Well, obviously, your ISP is near Tangerine, as is stated right below your name in your post. That's all we have to go by except for your oh so witty and intelligent posts.

[Kahona]

juniper wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, it is not legal according to the EPA because it has not been registered as a fuel. They do not prosecute those who do use it but this needs to be changed. There was an article in the Wall Street Journal about it last August.

It is legal to collect for your personal use, but you can't sell it and in some cases transport it across state lines (still an agricultural product by definition). Some states require you to get expensive permits and there are most likely local restrictions (based upon oil refining laws) that would prevent someone from setting up a bio-diesel factory in their garage.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/3/15...

[Kahona]

BuckStripes wrote:

<quoted text>
...The US Strategic Oil Reserve:
...I wouldn't touch it either. This country can be brought to its knees in a hurry, if our Armed Forces suddenly are cut off from foreign oil supplies...And we are not beloved in several countries which supply much of our oil...From the MidEast to South America (Venezuela)...
...

Agreed. It is there for strategic use (hence the name) and was intended in case of natural disaster or military applications, not political grandstanding in an election year.

[Chris]

Kahona wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, obviously, your ISP is near Tangerine, as is stated right below your name in your post. That's all we have to go by except for your oh so witty and intelligent posts.

I guess that means you are near Tangerine as well since I live in Winter Park.

[bud]

gee don't you wonder why the price of food is going through the roof right now? It's cause the farmers can make more money growing corn and wheat and all grains selling their product for ethanol. You have to have a trade off. What you do with the left hand effects the right hand but these envirofreaks don't think that far ahead. What we need to do is shut up and drill inANWR and off the coasts and cut our dependence on foreign oil. We also need to build more refineries till we can come up with a better solution. Like hydrogen. You know they don't just pump the oil on the ground or into the water then scoop it up. Promote nuclear power and wind power and solar. We are stuck using oil so get over it till we come up with a better strategy. Ethanol is not it. It works in Brazil but we ain't Brazil. and they use sugar cane.

[Kahona]

Chris wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess that means you are near Tangerine as well since I live in Winter Park.

Huh? Unless the little blue words under your posting name say something different, yours says Tangerine and mine says Winter Park.

[Green Up]

Chris wrote:

<quoted text>
You're a regular genius, aren't you? Obviously, I'm no where near tangerine j@ck@ss.
You emasculated envirofreaks make me sick.

Chris, it is obvious that you arent very intelligent. You can stop trying so hard now, you really can. Tangerine isnt such a bad place to live in little man. I hear you have a very nice traffic light there. Go stand in the middle of the road and watch it turn colors!

[Mark]

Green Up wrote:

<quoted text>
Chris, it is obvious that you arent very intelligent. You can stop trying so hard now, you really can. Tangerine isnt such a bad place to live in little man. I hear you have a very nice traffic light there. Go stand in the middle of the road and watch it turn colors!

How 'bout you go stand in the middle of I-4 and make everyone go green? Much better solution to all our problems.

[Green machine]

Mark wrote:

<quoted text>
How 'bout you go stand in the middle of I-4 and make everyone go green? Much better solution to all our problems.

Who asked you son? You have enough problems in Cocoa with your arsonists, thug gangs, meth labs and pedophiles. get your lazy, tired A-S-s off the computer and go out to try to make a positive difference in your little cess-pool of a town.

[Rochesterian]

Green machine wrote:

<quoted text>
The only thing that is a scam is that you have any semblence of intelligence. Since I have gone green in my home, I have cut my energy usage by 27% and putting out less CO2. Wise up chump. Help save the earth by doing your part. GO GREEN NOW!

I imagine since the Reagan tax cuts, you did not do your patriotic duty and accumulate a HUGE house, motorhome, motor-yacht, 300+HP sports-car and/or SUV.

Shame on you.

As you can see, the Saudis have smartened-up to our 50-year plan to deplete their oil reserves before we deplete ours.

Problem is, when the polar ice breaks-off, melts away and causes the sea level to rise, Saudi holdings/assets/investments in the U.S.A. will be nationalized during the chaos.

In a nutshell, te Saudis had better get used to eating scorpians like their ancestors, because their U.S.A. investment paper will be worthless and not very digestible. They would be wise to demand Euros for their oil commensing immediately.

[Rochesterian]

bud wrote:

gee don't you wonder why the price of food is going through the roof right now? It's cause the farmers can make more money growing corn and wheat and all grains selling their product for ethanol. You have to have a trade off. What you do with the left hand effects the right hand but these envirofreaks don't think that far ahead. What we need to do is shut up and drill inANWR and off the coasts and cut our dependence on foreign oil. We also need to build more refineries till we can come up with a better solution. Like hydrogen. You know they don't just pump the oil on the ground or into the water then scoop it up. Promote nuclear power and wind power and solar. We are stuck using oil so get over it till we come up with a better strategy. Ethanol is not it. It works in Brazil but we ain't Brazil. and they use sugar cane.

Only problem I see with nuclear is dealing with the possibility sea-levels will rise if/when the polar ice / glaciers melt.

Personally, I have gotten-by O.K. on 2 wind gen-sets, 6 2'x4' solar panels, 8 D batteries, 3000 watt inverter, alcohol stove, DC refrig. It ain't the Hilton, but its better than the alternative.
PEACE

[Green machine]

Rochesterian wrote:

<quoted text>
I imagine since the Reagan tax cuts, you did not do your patriotic duty and accumulate a HUGE house, motorhome, motor-yacht, 300+HP sports-car and/or SUV.
Shame on you.
As you can see, the Saudis have smartened-up to our 50-year plan to deplete their oil reserves before we deplete ours.
Problem is, when the polar ice breaks-off, melts away and causes the sea level to rise, Saudi holdings/assets/investments in the U.S.A. will be nationalized during the chaos.
In a nutshell, te Saudis had better get used to eating scorpians like their ancestors, because their U.S.A. investment paper will be worthless and not very digestible. They would be wise to demand Euros for their oil commensing immediately.

You are quite psychotic, demented and delusional. Please NEVER respond to any other posts again and have the doctor up your meds. You are in very bad shape. Thank You.

[Rochesterian]

YIKES!
We have on this post a genuine self-proclaimed neuro-psychologist, handing out "psychotic, demented and delusional" diagnosis to those he/she does not agree with. How SPECIAL!!!!!

You forgot to accuse me of being:
(1) un-American
(2) un-happy
(3) un-informed
(4) un-whatever the dingle-berries on the tip of your finger nearest your nose tells you to say.

[SPUD4402]

BuckStripes wrote:

<quoted text>
...The US Strategic Oil Reserve:
...I wouldn't touch it either. This country can be brought to its knees in a hurry, if our Armed Forces suddenly are cut off from foreign oil supplies...And we are not beloved in several countries which supply much of our oil...From the MidEast to South America (Venezuela)...
...

SAW ON THE NEWS AT 7 A.M. THAT DUKE POWER IS DISCONNECTING 500 CUSTOMERS A DAY FOR NON PAYMENT OF BILLS. ACCORDING TO STATE LAW THEY HAVE TO WAIT FOR 3 MONTHS OF NONPAYMENT BEFORE THEY CAN DISCONNECT. I SUSPECT THAT THIS NUMBER WILL GO UP BUT IF IT STAYS LEVEL THIS IS 180,000 DISCONNECTS/YEAR. MORE THAN LIKELY NONPAYMENT OF RENT TOO. IT SEEMS THAT POSTES ON HERE DOESN'T THINK THIS WILL GET TO THEM BUT IT WILL IF GAS STAYS UP LONG. IT SEEMS THAT OPEC AND THE MIDDLE EAST IS USING OIL AS A WEAPON SINCE WE GOT RID OF SADDAM THEY HAVE NO ONE TO FEAR. MAYBE WE SHOULD SWING SOME MORE DIVISIONS INTO IRAQ AND FIND THE SAUDI OIL FIELDS. EVIDENTLY NOT MUCH IRAQI OIL IS MOVING. IT STILL WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW WHAT CHENEY AND THE OIL FOLKS TALKED ABOUT BEFORE KATRINA. IT SEEMS THEY WERE WAITING FOR THE RIGHT MOMENT TO TO HAVE AN OIL SHORTAGE. >>>YESTERDAY MORNINGS NEWS,CAMP LEJEUNE HAS HIRED CIVILIAN COPS TO REPLACE MP'S ON BASE. OUTSOURCING THE MILITARY IS ANOTHER DUMB,COSTLY AND LEADS TO MORE CORRUPTION AND A LESS CAPABLE MILITARY.