107-year-old Holocaust survivor, Jehovah's Witness is star of 'Ladder in the Lions' Den' documentary

May 2, 2013 Full story: San Gabriel Valley Tribune 33

12, 2012. The film depicts Engleitner s life as a Jehovah s Witness in Nazi concentration camps.

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Since: Dec 12

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#1 May 4, 2013
This is an amazing story.

The worlds oldest living concentration camp survivor is a witness.

He endured all that persecution and abuse and kept his faith in Jehovah.

==========

Now the kind man who has written about his story has taken him in and made him a part of his family.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#2 May 4, 2013
The oldest known survivor of the camps is Alice Herz-Sommer, 109, who lives in London. She was confined in the camp in Terezin, or Theresienstadt in German.

He is to be honored for surviving all that he must have gone through.
And we must never forgot all the millions of Jews who also went through it as well and remained faithful as well.

Since: Mar 09

United States

#3 May 4, 2013
An inspiring story. Thanks for sharing.
El cacique wrote:
This is an amazing story.
The worlds oldest living concentration camp survivor is a witness.
He endured all that persecution and abuse and kept his faith in Jehovah.
==========
Now the kind man who has written about his story has taken him in and made him a part of his family.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#4 May 4, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
The oldest known survivor of the camps is Alice Herz-Sommer, 109, who lives in London. She was confined in the camp in Terezin, or Theresienstadt in German.
He is to be honored for surviving all that he must have gone through.
And we must never forgot all the millions of Jews who also went through it as well and remained faithful as well.
Faithful to whom, Karen?.

Do you even bother to think before you post?.

The Jews had no options. None.

==========

The JW's did. They could have signed a letter and just as easily waltzed out the camp gates.

The vast majority chose not too. They stayed TRUE to Jehovah under almost Job-like conditions.(Proverbs 27:11)
Real Truth

Akron, OH

#5 May 5, 2013
In 1933, after the Nazis first started arresting some German JWs, the Brooklyn, New York Headquarters of the WatchTower Cult issued a public
proclamation of appeasement which condemned an imagined "partnership" between "Jewish Big Business" and the governments of the United States
and Great Britain --- which supposedly oppressed and exploited other countries, including Germany. The WatchTower Cult's proclamation condemned the Americans and the British as "the most oppressive empire on earth".

A conciliatory letter also was sent to Adolph Hitler, which highlighted those areas in which the WatchTower Cult supported the new Nazi government. The letter even falsely claimed that the U.S. Government had imprisoned the leaders of the WatchTower Cult during WW1 because they had refused to print anti-German propaganda.

During the early years of World War 2, when Germany and Japan were having much success on the battlefields, the WatchTower Cult started
teaching that the Bible prophesied that the Axis Powers would defeat and rule over the United States, Britain, and other Allies.

In the United States, JWs went to the homes of families of American service men and women and told those parents, siblings, and spouses that Germany was prophesied to win the war, and that in fighting against Hitler, American and British soldiers were fighting against God's will. A Jehovah's Witness named Taylor was arrested after going to two homes of dead servicemen and telling their families that their sons had died while opposing God's will. Don't believe this? Read 1943 U.S. Supreme Court case TAYLOR v. MISSISSIPPI.

Remember that actual historical context the next time you read some liberal newspaper or book's account about how some poor innocent Jehovah's Witness was beaten during WW2 for doing nothing except preaching the Bible door-to-door.

While it is true that a small number of German and other European JWs suffered greatly during the early stages of the Holocaust, it is also true that during the latter stages of the Holocaust that imprisoned JWs became exemplary Nazi collaborators highly valued by the Nazis.

Over the decades, the WatchTower Cult itself has published numerous biographical stories in which imprisoned JWs are praised for having been given positions of authority and responsibility within the various Nazi concentration camps. Various Nazi officials are quoted praising those JWs for not only their work, but their work ethic and supportive attitudes.

In fact, one of Heinrich Himmler's deputies once even suggested to Himmler that after Germany won the war that conquered non-Germanic christian nations be forced to convert to the Jehovah's Witness religion, so as to maintain a controlling religious element in those people's lives which would pose no threat to Nazi political control.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#6 May 5, 2013
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text>Faithful to whom, Karen?.
Do you even bother to think before you post?.
The Jews had no options. None.
==========
The JW's did. They could have signed a letter and just as easily waltzed out the camp gates.
The vast majority chose not too. They stayed TRUE to Jehovah under almost Job-like conditions.(Proverbs 27:11)
Jehovah used the Jews, and one day you will realize that. And I don't think it will be very long before you will see it.

There were millions of Jews who died there because they were Jews, there were only maybe a thousand JWs. It was horrible for all of them to have suffered through. Just because some were JWs and most were Jews does not take away the horror of what happened to them. Stop trying to make the JWs look oh so much better than the Jews. They were victims just as the Jews were, no better, no worse.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#7 May 5, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah used the Jews, and one day you will realize that. And I don't think it will be very long before you will see it.
There were millions of Jews who died there because they were Jews, there were only maybe a thousand JWs. It was horrible for all of them to have suffered through. Just because some were JWs and most were Jews does not take away the horror of what happened to them. Stop trying to make the JWs look oh so much better than the Jews. They were victims just as the Jews were, no better, no worse.
All life is important to Jehovah.

I'm not saying anything of the kind.

You drew that erroneous conclusion on your own.

This thread is about en elderly JW who it says is the oldest camp survivor in the world thus far.

Again....You were the one who took it there.

However, Jehovah does value loyal ones.

The witnesses in the camps who were executed were killed with visciousnes that was previously unseen. This is all documented.

GO READ!!!

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#8 May 5, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah used the Jews, and one day you will realize that. And I don't think it will be very long before you will see it.
There were millions of Jews who died there because they were Jews, there were only maybe a thousand JWs. It was horrible for all of them to have suffered through. Just because some were JWs and most were Jews does not take away the horror of what happened to them. Stop trying to make the JWs look oh so much better than the Jews. They were victims just as the Jews were, no better, no worse.
The Physical nation of Israel broke their covenant with Jehovah over 2,000 years ago.

Get with the program, dear.
QUITTNER

Toronto, Canada

#9 May 5, 2013
10:26 am, Sunday, May 5, 2013:
RE: 107-year-old Holocaust survivor, Jehovah's Witness is star of 'Ladder in the Lions' Den' documentary
..... Never mind the numbers; every innocent person hurt or even killed is one too many.
Real Truth

Akron, OH

#10 May 5, 2013
In the latter 1960s, the WatchTower Society commissioned an exact and comprehensive history of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany, which was to include exact and precise statistics for the Holocaust period, which were to be extracted from not only government archives, but, more importantly, from the WatchTower Cult's own METICULOUS RECORDS in Germany and other European countries. That report was published by the
WatchTower Cult in 1973.

Apparently, the WatchTower Cult was greatly disappointed in the Holocaust statistics uncovered by its own legal researchers, because that report has rarely been cited by the WatchTower Cult in its' own Holocaust related articles published subsequent to the 1973 report. Instead of using its own documented exact statistics, both the WatchTower Cult and individual Jehovah's Witnesses routinely cite inflated statistics from non-WatchTower sources whose numbers are inflated "guestimates", or are inflated numbers from unreliable and inaccurate records.

Accordingly to the WatchTower Cult's own 1973 report, only 6019 Jehovah's Witnesses were arrested in Germany during the entire 12 year Nazi period of 1933 through 1945. Only 2000 German JWs were ever sent to concentration camps. Only 203 were executed. Another 432 German JWs died from other causes while in custody in all German jails, prisons, and camps.
Exact numbers for other Nazi-occupied countries are unknown. Even Holocaust experts who inflate German JW statistics guestimate that only 600-800 non-German JWs from Nazi-occupied countries were ever sent to concentration camps. Mortality figures are not known.

Thus, only 2600-2800 Jehovah's Witnesses were ever sent to Nazi concentration camps. Death statistics are not known, but can be reasonably estimated to be in the 500-700 range. The grand total for 1933-1945 is about HALF the DAILY AVERAGE of Jewish deaths -- 1370 every single day for the 12 year Nazi period.

During this same 1933-1945 time period, there were TWICE as many Jehovah's Witnesses arrested and jailed in the United States as there were in Germany. In fact, just during 1941-45, approximately 4500 American Jehovah's Witnesses men "elected" to go to prison rather than serve in the U.S. Military and help stop Nazis atrocities against their fellow JWs. Approximately 3000 of those 4500 American JWs were even offered "conscientious objector" status, in which they were offered "non-combatant" work as a substitute for military service, but 99% of those 3000 American JWs refused to help out even that much.

“John 4:23,24”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#11 May 5, 2013
The Real Karen wrote:
<quoted text>
Jehovah used the Jews, and one day you will realize that. And I don't think it will be very long before you will see it.
There were millions of Jews who died there because they were Jews, there were only maybe a thousand JWs. It was horrible for all of them to have suffered through. Just because some were JWs and most were Jews does not take away the horror of what happened to them. Stop trying to make the JWs look oh so much better than the Jews. They were victims just as the Jews were, no better, no worse.
Since you are a Southern Baptist, you should be more concerned with your church's record during the Holocaust than with correcting and criticizing others. That looks hypocritical.

As El Cacique stated, the Jews did not have any options. They were persecuted because of what they were born as. Jehovah's Witnesses were of different nationalities and births and could have avoided persecution by renouncing their loyalty to Jehovah. The record shows that they stood firm.

Here is what history says about your religion:

"Outside Germany, the most conspicuous examples of silence among Baptist were from the Southern Baptist Convention of the United States. In the Southern Baptist Convention, representing the largest group of American Baptists, the Convention itself offered no resolutions of protest concerning the treatment of the Jews in Germany from 1933 to 1941. Whether or not this silence was due to ignorance or indifference one may debate. Certainly information on the plight of the Jews was not only available; it was reported in the 1940 edition of the Southern Baptist Handbook, published by the Southern Baptist Convention. Here the Convention reprinted information from the Watchman and Examiner, reporting the number of Jews in Germany and Austria who had committed suicide (30,000),how many were in prisons or concentration camps (30,000), how many emigrated (330,000), how many had been murdered (13,000)."

Read much more here:

http://www.floridabaptisthistory.org/docs/mon...

“John 4:23,24”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#12 May 5, 2013
The churches in general did little to help the Jews and compromised as needed to avoid being persecuted:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php...

"The general tactic by the leadership of both Protestant and Catholic churches in Germany was caution with respect to protest and compromise with the Nazi state leadership where possible. There was criticism within both churches of Nazi racialized ideology and notions of "Aryanism," and movements emerged in both churches to defend church members who were considered "non-Aryan" under Nazi racial laws (e.g., Jews who had converted).

Yet throughout this period there was virtually no public opposition to antisemitism or any readiness by church leaders to publicly oppose the regime on the issues of antisemitism and state-sanctioned violence against the Jews. There were individual Catholics and Protestants who spoke out on behalf of Jews, and small groups within both churches that became involved in rescue and resistance activities (for example, the White Rose and Herman Maas).

After 1945, the silence of the church leadership and the widespread complicity of "ordinary Christians" compelled leaders of both churches to address issues of guilt and complicity during the Holocaust—a process that continues internationally to this day."

“John 4:23,24”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#13 May 5, 2013
http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/jehov...

"In the Nazi years, about 10,000 Witnesses, most of them of German nationality, were imprisoned in concentration camps. After 1939, small numbers of Witnesses from Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, the Netherlands, Norway, and Poland (some of them refugees from Germany) were arrested and deported to Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Sachsenhausen, Ravensbrück, Auschwitz, Mauthausen, and other concentration camps. An estimated 2,500 to 5,000 Witnesses died in the camps or prisons. More than 200 men were tried by the German War Court and executed for refusing military service."

More information:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php...

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php...

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#14 May 5, 2013
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> All life is important to Jehovah.
I'm not saying anything of the kind.
You drew that erroneous conclusion on your own.
This thread is about en elderly JW who it says is the oldest camp survivor in the world thus far.
Again....You were the one who took it there.
However, Jehovah does value loyal ones.
The witnesses in the camps who were executed were killed with visciousnes that was previously unseen. This is all documented.
GO READ!!!
They were not treated any harsher than one Jew. I said I respected anyone who went through what all of them did, you have turned it around to glorify the JW's. SAD.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#15 May 5, 2013
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text> The Physical nation of Israel broke their covenant with Jehovah over 2,000 years ago.
Get with the program, dear.
You will see very shortly.:)
Real Truth

Akron, OH

#16 May 6, 2013
JEWS - JEhovah's WitnesseS Replacement Theology

The WatchTower Cult preaches its own version of "replacement theology", which teaches that YHWH rejected the Jews as HIS "chosen people", and replaced the Jewish people with the followers of the WatchTower Cult -- who the Cult has wrongfully mislabeled -- "Jehovah's Witnesses".

The WatchTower Cult teaches that modern-day Jews are YHWH's enemies, and that all of YHWH's Biblical promises of restoration for the Jewish
people now belong to the followers of the WatchTower Cult.

In fact, the descriptive label "Jehovah's Witnesses" was originally applied to the Jewish people by the Prophet Isaiah, and that scripture is even memorialized on the wall inside the front entrance of the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C.

The WatchTower Cult, in calling its own members -- "Jehovah's Witnesses" -- has effectively stolen that Biblical designation away from the Jewish people. To maintain this ongoing "identity theft", for the past three decades, the WatchTower Cult has had a corporate department dedicated to making certain that every single Holocaust rememberance of any size or type -- newspaper article, book, speech, museum, etc -- anywhere in the world, publicize the fact that the WatchTower Cult's own "Jehovah's Witnesses" were equally persecuted alongside "natural" Jews.

This is the WatchTower Cult's way of claiming that "Satan" and his human supporters hate "Jehovah's Witnesses" as much or more than they hate natural Jews --- thus attempting to prevent the Jewish people from laying claim to any spiritual or prophetic significance that might be interpreted from the Holocaust experience.
bob7777

Amarillo, TX

#17 May 7, 2013
As an old man now and with a good memory, I can assure that what many opposers of Bible truth have penned in this series of comments is very far from the truth.

I have over the years heard much drivel come from the imitation Christian religions who attack the one true God, Jehovah has been dreamed up by those who steadfastly refuse to actually admit any error on their part. It seems they collectively have chosen to forget the Bible knowledge they once had. They have chosen to follow their own heart.
As Proverbs 21:30 says, "30 There is no wisdom, nor any discernment, nor any counsel in opposition to Jehovah."

They remind me of a little story..

It is a given that the Jews do not recognize that Jesus is the Messiah.
It is a given that Protestants do not recognize the Pope as head of the church.
Likewise it is a given that two Baptists refuse to recognize each other at a liquor store.
Edna Marie

Duluth, GA

#18 May 7, 2013
El cacique wrote:
<quoted text>Faithful to whom, Karen?.
Do you even bother to think before you post?.
The Jews had no options. None.
==========
The JW's did. They could have signed a letter and just as easily waltzed out the camp gates.
The vast majority chose not too. They stayed TRUE to Jehovah under almost Job-like conditions.(Proverbs 27:11)
Be loyal to a false god and a false religion!

Laughable!

Since: Mar 09

United States

#19 May 8, 2013
If you read Psalms 83:18, you will find our GOD is THE only GOD of Heaven.

Since: Apr 10

Cape Town, South Africa

#20 May 8, 2013
Another JW who died believing he will never forever see Jesus or his Father! I feel sorry for him cause one day when he raise from the dead and see Jesus indeed he will realize it is to late!

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