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Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#1 Dec 19, 2012
Out of respect for the victims in CT, I thought we could move this discussion to its own thread.

"After the Sandy Brook massacre, Attorney General Eric Holder said “we need to discuss who we are as a nation, talk about the freedoms that we have, the rights we have and how those might be used in a responsible way.” Indeed, Mr. Holder. Let’s talk about this:

A gun found at the scene of a shootout between a Mexican drug cartel and soldiers where a beauty queen died was part of the botched “Fast and Furious” operation, CBS News reports."

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/20...

And why does no one question this?? Or is it do as I say, not as I do?
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#2 Dec 19, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
And why does no one question this??
Well no. A liberal government has only our best interests in mind. This dove-tails nicely with the elimination of the 2nd amendment with it's veiled threat to the fed.
Are you paranoid or something? I can only hope your parents have their guns locked up.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#4 Dec 19, 2012
The liberal fear of guns is at the very root of their being...an all-controlling government is threatened by a citizenry who can do more than write letters to the editor.

That said, their exploitation of this situation isn't surprising. It is also a grand political move: No better time than now to take advantage of outrage.

Moreover, this takes the spotlight off of Hillary's banged noggin and the damning investigation

Since: Sep 09

Effort

#5 Dec 20, 2012
It has also removed a whole bunch of other things from the spotlight, 15% ethanol, budget, cliff, you know all that trivial stuff. Oh, this was not by a long shot the biggest massacre of school children, Bath Michigan was much more destructive and done by an employee. Timothy McVay did far more damage with no firearms whatsoever. The military has courses in improvised methods that would scare the pants off most people.
Shirley

Hazleton, PA

#6 Dec 20, 2012
fistv wrote:
It has also removed a whole bunch of other things from the spotlight, 15% ethanol, budget, cliff, you know all that trivial stuff. Oh, this was not by a long shot the biggest massacre of school children, Bath Michigan was much more destructive and done by an employee. Timothy McVay did far more damage with no firearms whatsoever. The military has courses in improvised methods that would scare the pants off most people.
The reason this shooting is different was because of the age of most of the victims,anytime it's a child people are going to react the way they are now.Newtown is now pleading with the press to go away and leave them alone,they say they are being harassed.We've all shed tears over the last week,but now it's time to move on.The only people who won't be able to do this is the victims parents and relatives.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#7 Dec 20, 2012
Shirley wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason this shooting is different was because of the age of most of the victims,anytime it's a child people are going to react the way they are now.Newtown is now pleading with the press to go away and leave them alone,they say they are being harassed.We've all shed tears over the last week,but now it's time to move on.The only people who won't be able to do this is the victims parents and relatives.
Strange that people don't react that way to the 1 million+ babies are murdered every year.
Shirley

Hazleton, PA

#8 Dec 20, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
Strange that people don't react that way to the 1 million+ babies are murdered every year.
Maybe that's because you don't hear about 20 of them being slaughtered at once.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#9 Dec 20, 2012
Shirley wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe that's because you don't hear about 20 of them being slaughtered at once.
Right. And why is that? Because that is the right to choose to kill babies.
lotta

Falls, PA

#10 Dec 20, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
Strange that people don't react that way to the 1 million+ babies are murdered every year.
But they do. Being pro-choice does not mean being pro abortion under any and all circumstances. Many if not most pro-choicers would like to see fewer abortions, not more of them. That's why wider availability of birth control and early education is advocated, measures which many prolifers reject. Even plan B is under attack now by some prolifers.

If you believe in the sanctity of life, how is it that these murdered school children who were wanted by loving parents do not merit at least thinking about how we might better protect them? Are their lives less valuable because they were wanted?

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#11 Dec 20, 2012
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
But they do. Being pro-choice does not mean being pro abortion under any and all circumstances. Many if not most pro-choicers would like to see fewer abortions, not more of them. That's why wider availability of birth control and early education is advocated, measures which many prolifers reject. Even plan B is under attack now by some prolifers.
If you believe in the sanctity of life, how is it that these murdered school children who were wanted by loving parents do not merit at least thinking about how we might better protect them? Are their lives less valuable because they were wanted?
Oh hell no, I never said or alluded to that. Of course these kids deserved (as all kids deserve) to be protected. I just don't see how more gun laws will accomplish that. Remember, criminals don't obey the laws. This psycho didn't own guns. BUT, no one on this campus had one either. To me, that would be part of the solution. Part, I said.

I NEVER said their lives were less valuable because they were wanted. Honestly, I can't understand why you would say that. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who are pushing for more gun laws in the face of this tragedy( some actually using it) but are also willing to let a baby who is the victim of botched abortion die without being given care. Who don't bat an eye when over a million babies are aborted every year.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#12 Dec 20, 2012
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1566715.stm

An old article but still true.
lotta

Falls, PA

#13 Dec 20, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh hell no, I never said or alluded to that. Of course these kids deserved (as all kids deserve) to be protected. I just don't see how more gun laws will accomplish that. Remember, criminals don't obey the laws. This psycho didn't own guns. BUT, no one on this campus had one either. To me, that would be part of the solution. Part, I said.
I NEVER said their lives were less valuable because they were wanted. Honestly, I can't understand why you would say that. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who are pushing for more gun laws in the face of this tragedy( some actually using it) but are also willing to let a baby who is the victim of botched abortion die without being given care. Who don't bat an eye when over a million babies are aborted every year.
Henny- first let me apologize. I could have worded that better. I meant a general "you" not you specifically.

My position on gun restrictions is already plastered all over this forum. I agree, more gun laws alone will do nothing. But I think there are things that we should be thinking about including clip liimits, better identification and treatment of mental health issues and better tracking of those individuals as related to gun sales, and better security at schools including allowing at least some staff to carry. But to write off the discussion because we allow abortions doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Decreasing abortions is a problem we can all work on of course, but what happened at Newton is to me an entirely different issue and just as important.

Since: Sep 09

Effort

#14 Dec 20, 2012
Gun laws are discriminatory, every single one that has been passed since the National Firearms act of 1934. The first of the city firearms acts passed in NY city with it's Sullivan Law passed in 1911, it's purported purpose was to reduce crime, the crimes it was really supposed to reduce was the Tammany hall protection racket of cops collecting protection money from business owners. They got tired of the cops getting shot by irate business owners being robbed by police. Further laws were passed in various states to keep minorities from buying or possessing firearms, made it easier to keep blacks and native Americans in line. The more corrupt the administration the more gun laws they pass for one simple reason, they are scared of an armed citizenry which is the way it is supposed to be, personally I want a government that is afraid of it's citizens, keeps them more honest and makes them listen better all the time and not just when election time rolls around.:-)
I think it's way past time that we should be tarring and feathering a few of our liberals and conservatives then riding them out of town on a rail.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#15 Dec 20, 2012
It is definitely time that mental illness recognition and prescription drug abuse is addressed when dealing with gun control. It seems that all of these murderers also had personality disorders. Something to think about.

To equate this to abortion is ludicrous. I'm sure any of the parents of those murdered children would punch someone in the face for that statement.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#16 Dec 20, 2012
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
Henny- first let me apologize. I could have worded that better. I meant a general "you" not you specifically.
My position on gun restrictions is already plastered all over this forum. I agree, more gun laws alone will do nothing. But I think there are things that we should be thinking about including clip liimits, better identification and treatment of mental health issues and better tracking of those individuals as related to gun sales, and better security at schools including allowing at least some staff to carry. But to write off the discussion because we allow abortions doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Decreasing abortions is a problem we can all work on of course, but what happened at Newton is to me an entirely different issue and just as important.
Well, thanks. We pretty much agree on the gun issue, except for the fact that the laws don't really do much to deter criminals. I wasn't writing off the discussion, I am just disgusted with the hypocrites plastered on the media. Treatment of mental health issues is very tricky. The stigma of it keeps many from seeking help for themselves or others. Plus, very few affordable providers in this area and they are pretty well booked up with add/adhd diagnosis seekers trying to add to their coffers. Sorry, pretty disgusted today, don't mean to sound nasty, just frustrated.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#17 Dec 20, 2012
slush wrote:
It is definitely time that mental illness recognition and prescription drug abuse is addressed when dealing with gun control. It seems that all of these murderers also had personality disorders. Something to think about.
To equate this to abortion is ludicrous. I'm sure any of the parents of those murdered children would punch someone in the face for that statement.
No one 'equated' the two. Do get help for your fantasies of violence.

As far as the 'personality disorder', they are usually diagnosed that after the fact. Great defense. I think they are suffering from some mental disorder or they wouldn't do the things they do in the first place. Delusions of grandeur, personality disorders, victims of bullies, etc. How about some personal responsibility?
lotta

Falls, PA

#18 Dec 20, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, thanks. We pretty much agree on the gun issue, except for the fact that the laws don't really do much to deter criminals. I wasn't writing off the discussion, I am just disgusted with the hypocrites plastered on the media. Treatment of mental health issues is very tricky. The stigma of it keeps many from seeking help for themselves or others. Plus, very few affordable providers in this area and they are pretty well booked up with add/adhd diagnosis seekers trying to add to their coffers. Sorry, pretty disgusted today, don't mean to sound nasty, just frustrated.
yeah I agree MH is tricky and sticky. I'm not saying I have the answers but gosh, it seems like all the most notorious cases of mass scale gun violence involves deranged people. Maybe because of my own experience and knowing that as it is now no one can act proactively to get these people treatment until they hurt themselves or someone, I just hope we can all think long and hard about how we can limit gun access to these people in the first place.

You didn't sound nasty. I realized my mistake immediately so don't fault yourself. And I hear you about being frustrated.
Shirley

Hazleton, PA

#19 Dec 20, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
Strange that people don't react that way to the 1 million+ babies are murdered every year.
You're mixing apples and oranges here,abortion has nothing to do with the killing of 20 children.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#20 Dec 20, 2012
Shirley wrote:
<quoted text>
You're mixing apples and oranges here,abortion has nothing to do with the killing of 20 children.
No, it has to do with killing millions. I stand corrected.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#21 Dec 20, 2012
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
No one 'equated' the two. Do get help for your fantasies of violence.
As far as the 'personality disorder', they are usually diagnosed that after the fact. Great defense. I think they are suffering from some mental disorder or they wouldn't do the things they do in the first place. Delusions of grandeur, personality disorders, victims of bullies, etc. How about some personal responsibility?
Relax there henny. A disagreement with you does not mean I need to get help for violent fantasies. Sounds like the ignorant statement of the day. How about not allowing guns to get into the hands of those with mental or personality disorders? How about looking beyond rural areas and thinking about the urban environments that need gun control? How about knowing that personality disorders can be diagnosed 'before' the fact if anyone cared? How about maybe you do not have all the answers.This goes way beyond personal responsibility. Can you even for a minute put yourself in the shoes of those who lost their children? You think they want to hear anything about personal repsonsibility when they are buring their children the week before Christmas? They want gun control because this society obviously can't handle the reponsibility of gun ownership with all these mass killings we have had to endure. I'm sickened by your cold response.

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