Since: Sep 09

Effort

#65 Jan 17, 2013
Ban the so called 'assault' weapons [a news speak term] and an instant market of new weapons sources will be created only this time it will include full auto ones off the international arms market also consider it's not a big stretch to include RPG's in with the cases of AK's and such. Ask yourself what happens when there is a market that needs filling. Hows that war on drugs doing...

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#66 Jan 17, 2013
fistv wrote:
Ban the so called 'assault' weapons [a news speak term] and an instant market of new weapons sources will be created only this time it will include full auto ones off the international arms market also consider it's not a big stretch to include RPG's in with the cases of AK's and such. Ask yourself what happens when there is a market that needs filling. Hows that war on drugs doing...
Exactly. Trying to put limits on the law-abiding will do little more than change some of those folks into criminals...like it or not.

I stand by my initial assertion when the Sandy Hook event went down. Clearly the killer did not see the 'gun-free zone' signs at that school. To me, that means the signs just need to be bigger.

There is no reason to believe that this murderer would not obey a law that he is made aware of. Had he seen a sign, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have changed his plans and looked for a building that didn't have a gun prohibition.

Clearly.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#67 Jan 17, 2013
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. Trying to put limits on the law-abiding will do little more than change some of those folks into criminals...like it or not.
I stand by my initial assertion when the Sandy Hook event went down. Clearly the killer did not see the 'gun-free zone' signs at that school. To me, that means the signs just need to be bigger.
There is no reason to believe that this murderer would not obey a law that he is made aware of. Had he seen a sign, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have changed his plans and looked for a building that didn't have a gun prohibition.
Clearly.
And you're not wrong jeff... but you seem reluctant to discuss what COULD be done to keep guns in responsible hands and out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them and/or prefer to steal them. Yes, there are laws but do they go far enough for example, in demanding responsible use and ownership?

FWIW, the way I see it, some compromises are going to have to be made between the extremes of both sides. Gun violence is a public health issue and demands the same attention we'd pay to anything else, whether that be deaths due to faulty product design or accidental drownings in backyard pools. I DO believe we will see some new laws aimed at gun control, like it or not. IMHO BG checks, an improved NICS database, increased enforcement and the like are worth compromising on. These do nothing to remove the right to own a gun from law abiding citizens. There are other areas to consider as well, such as violence in media as loose mentioned.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#68 Jan 17, 2013
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
And you're not wrong jeff... but you seem reluctant to discuss what COULD be done to keep guns in responsible hands and out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them and/or prefer to steal them. Yes, there are laws but do they go far enough for example, in demanding responsible use and ownership?
FWIW, the way I see it, some compromises are going to have to be made between the extremes of both sides. Gun violence is a public health issue and demands the same attention we'd pay to anything else, whether that be deaths due to faulty product design or accidental drownings in backyard pools. I DO believe we will see some new laws aimed at gun control, like it or not. IMHO BG checks, an improved NICS database, increased enforcement and the like are worth compromising on. These do nothing to remove the right to own a gun from law abiding citizens. There are other areas to consider as well, such as violence in media as loose mentioned.
All I'm saying is that measures aimed at reducing the rights of the law-abiding do nothing for the ones who will not obey the law.

If someone cannot pass a background check, they will steal a weapon or buy it on the black market. The Sandy Hook shooter met both of those circumstances...with tragic results.

Those who wail the loudest about expanding gun laws are not interested in curbing violence. They want to curb guns. However, the realist knows that even if all guns are outlawed tomorrow, there is a century's worth of black market guns ready to keep the criminals well armed.

A long term fix is required. Not by eliminating useful tools, but rather by addressing the culture that glorifies killers. I recall when I saw "Natural Born Killers" years ago. I thought it was a good movie, but had questions then about the impact of making killers look so cool. I knew better than to emulate, but how many do not?

Our country has grown weary of consequences. It's always someone (or someTHING) else's fault. Accountability has given way to every kid getting a trophy, every contest only has winners and losing is simply against the rules.

There is no easy solution. The change will be long and hard, and requires those in positions of responsibility to be responsible. Let hard work once again lead to rewards. Let the good guys win. Let the bad guys look more foolish. Set the hearts and minds on the right path from the beginning, rather than hand-wringing over what went wrong when they choose the wrong path in the end.

Liberalism hasn't just f*cked this country financially, it has also destroyed our collective character and responsibility. Perhaps it is time to stop wondering why some folks dye their hair orange like a movie character and set out on a path to kill.

It's because liberal society has spent a long time teaching that such an act is really, really cool.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#69 Jan 17, 2013
Hi Slush!

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#70 Jan 17, 2013
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
Hi Slush!
Ding Ding

Interesting blog about a statement o made.

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/01/17/the-40-...

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#71 Jan 18, 2013
hennypennyhag wrote:
<quoted text>
Ding Ding
Interesting blog about a statement o made.
http://www.humanevents.com/2013/01/17/the-40-...
Good points.

I don't much care for relying upon a link to bolster a position I take in posts here or elsewhere.'Facts' can be found to prove anything...Bigfoot, Nessie, Barney Frank being straight...you name it. I'd rather appeal to the rational thought of intelligent human beings who can look at a situation and decipher its absurdity or validity. Clearly, the Obumble audience needs manipulation to reach their conclusions. We see the lefties on here parroting quotes from other lefties as if that makes the quotes fact.

America sure has become pretty dumb. It's just sad...
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#72 Jan 18, 2013
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
<quoted text>
All I'm saying is that measures aimed at reducing the rights of the law-abiding do nothing for the ones who will not obey the law.
If someone cannot pass a background check, they will steal a weapon or buy it on the black market. The Sandy Hook shooter met both of those circumstances...with tragic results.
Those who wail the loudest about expanding gun laws are not interested in curbing violence. They want to curb guns. However, the realist knows that even if all guns are outlawed tomorrow, there is a century's worth of black market guns ready to keep the criminals well armed.
A long term fix is required. Not by eliminating useful tools, but rather by addressing the culture that glorifies killers. I recall when I saw "Natural Born Killers" years ago. I thought it was a good movie, but had questions then about the impact of making killers look so cool. I knew better than to emulate, but how many do not?
Our country has grown weary of consequences. It's always someone (or someTHING) else's fault. Accountability has given way to every kid getting a trophy, every contest only has winners and losing is simply against the rules.
There is no easy solution. The change will be long and hard, and requires those in positions of responsibility to be responsible. Let hard work once again lead to rewards. Let the good guys win. Let the bad guys look more foolish. Set the hearts and minds on the right path from the beginning, rather than hand-wringing over what went wrong when they choose the wrong path in the end.
Liberalism hasn't just f*cked this country financially, it has also destroyed our collective character and responsibility. Perhaps it is time to stop wondering why some folks dye their hair orange like a movie character and set out on a path to kill.
It's because liberal society has spent a long time teaching that such an act is really, really cool.
That's an honest answer I can accept even if I don't entirely agree. We already know I support more BG checks. The other issues you raise are harder to address. How do you encourage "those in positions of responsibility to be responsible"? And exactly who are "those"? The media and in particular, news outlets, are an obvious target for their wholesale sensationalization of tragic events. But short of pulling the plug, what else can be done? How do we improve our collective character? And where do we focus our efforts?

I am also not so ready place all the blame on liberalism. Many of the recent shooters were working towards degrees presumably to better their lives. None were welfare types living off the taxpayers dime nor did they come from families that did. Most of the recent mass shooters are just plain old mentally ill.

FWIW, when adults can't find good jobs and are working at McDonalds, there is a lot less opportunity for kids to work. Also, imho, because of liability issues, kids are no longer allowed to do the kinds of jobs that many of us may have done as kids- the ones that made us feel responsible and a valued part of the community. I volunteered at a hospital when I was a young teen and the things I was allowed to do then would not be allowed for an adult volunteer to do today. Or joining a volunteer fire department which you will know more about. Are kids still allowed to do the things they once were at an early age? One disadvantage I see from this emphasis on liability is that kids don't get to work in a multi-generational community setting where there contribution is needed and valued. It's a shame because I see a lot of good coming from that.

“Not an Obumble Voter!”

Since: Dec 08

Bar Harbor, ME

#73 Jan 18, 2013
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an honest answer I can accept even if I don't entirely agree. We already know I support more BG checks. The other issues you raise are harder to address. How do you encourage "those in positions of responsibility to be responsible"? And exactly who are "those"? The media and in particular, news outlets, are an obvious target for their wholesale sensationalization of tragic events. But short of pulling the plug, what else can be done? How do we improve our collective character? And where do we focus our efforts?
...
I really don't expect anyone to be responsible anymore. The lack of responsibility has been taught. It'll be a high fence to climb to 'unteach' it.

There are pockets of responsibility that remain. I inhabit one, as I'm sure that you do. Exceptions rather than the rule.

This is kind of akin to the debt situation that I routinely decry. We are on a path that I really don't see any chance of abandoning. LIkewise the odds of abandoning the glorification of evil and the blurring of the lines between right and wrong. Make no mistake, life is full of such dichotomy, and choices are made every day without regard to what is truly right. However, I'm talking about the wholesale presentation of those subjects in ways that shape and mold the character of our yutes. We now know that such 'advertising' is killer effective (pardon the pun). We even now know that being a 'teen mom' is pretty cool as well.

Consequences. Liberal thought told us to do what feels good, consequences be damned.

As the generations have grown and developed underneath such liberal bombardment, we now see what it has wrought.

And that doesn't feel too good at all.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#74 Jan 18, 2013
So since there are limited jobs for kids and in many cases, mom is busy working hard to support kids or mom and dad are busting their arse to pay the bills, little johnny is holed up in his basement room playing mortal combat. It is also not only the violence of the video games that I am suggesting have the bad effect on kids, but paired with too many busy or otherwise disengaged parents not there to see that johnny understands the difference between gaming and reality. Just like our parents did with old westerns and such. When we as a society let hollywood, pro-sports, and game makers dictate to our kids what is acceptable and what is not, we shouldn't be surprised when the kid who was always a little off commits an atrocity like this.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#75 Jan 18, 2013
hennypennyhag wrote:
So since there are limited jobs for kids and in many cases, mom is busy working hard to support kids or mom and dad are busting their arse to pay the bills, little johnny is holed up in his basement room playing mortal combat. It is also not only the violence of the video games that I am suggesting have the bad effect on kids, but paired with too many busy or otherwise disengaged parents not there to see that johnny understands the difference between gaming and reality. Just like our parents did with old westerns and such. When we as a society let hollywood, pro-sports, and game makers dictate to our kids what is acceptable and what is not, we shouldn't be surprised when the kid who was always a little off commits an atrocity like this.
Can't argue with that. And is there anything we as a society can do to change it?

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#76 Jan 18, 2013
Coupled with the nearly non-existent mental health care available to those who have identified a need. Oh yeah, you can still find a doc who will write a script for psychotropic drugs, which may or may not cause more mental distubance, but that many rely on to try and help the kids through whatever mental issues they are having. Parents want to trust the doctor, because most have never dealt with they type of issues their kids are having and don't understand the side effects these drugs may have on their kids. For those of you who are not super busy, some day pick up the phone and try to get services for your (imaginary) mentally ill child. See how long the initial wait will be unless you deem it to be a true emergency. Be prepared to have cash up front (lots of it) or some super good insurance before a caregiver will even see you or your child. I suspect this will only get worse as the new healthcare kicks in full swing.

And while i'm on the rant, seems to me that when kids were eating real unadulterated food and were more able to be outside unsupervised there were a whole lot of kids who were happy, healthy and not obese. Sure, there were 'bad' kids who did bad things, but not ( I don't think) at the alarming rate that we now see. Of course, these same kids didn't get 'time-outs' when they misbehaved. And they didn't all get a trophy for showing up. When I was your age... you get it.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#77 Jan 18, 2013
Jeff Woehrle wrote:
<quoted text>
I really don't expect anyone to be responsible anymore. The lack of responsibility has been taught. It'll be a high fence to climb to 'unteach' it.
I guess that may be what separates us. I still expect responsibility. If we lower our expectations all you get is self fulfilling prophecy. Or at least that's my take on things:).
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#78 Jan 18, 2013
hennypennyhag wrote:
Coupled with the nearly non-existent mental health care available to those who have identified a need. Oh yeah, you can still find a doc who will write a script for psychotropic drugs, which may or may not cause more mental distubance, but that many rely on to try and help the kids through whatever mental issues they are having. Parents want to trust the doctor, because most have never dealt with they type of issues their kids are having and don't understand the side effects these drugs may have on their kids. For those of you who are not super busy, some day pick up the phone and try to get services for your (imaginary) mentally ill child. See how long the initial wait will be unless you deem it to be a true emergency. Be prepared to have cash up front (lots of it) or some super good insurance before a caregiver will even see you or your child. I suspect this will only get worse as the new healthcare kicks in full swing.
And while i'm on the rant, seems to me that when kids were eating real unadulterated food and were more able to be outside unsupervised there were a whole lot of kids who were happy, healthy and not obese. Sure, there were 'bad' kids who did bad things, but not ( I don't think) at the alarming rate that we now see. Of course, these same kids didn't get 'time-outs' when they misbehaved. And they didn't all get a trophy for showing up. When I was your age... you get it.
I don't consider that a rant. Excellent points!

Since: Sep 09

Effort

#79 Jan 18, 2013
I sense a glimmering of the real problem by these drifting posts away from gun control and into mental health issues which is where the problem really is.
cabin

East Stroudsburg, PA

#80 Jan 18, 2013
fistv wrote:
I sense a glimmering of the real problem by these drifting posts away from gun control and into mental health issues which is where the problem really is.
Back ground checks do not work and unless people are willing to open ALL medical records for government inspection they never have a chance of working.

The right to privacy can not survive given this 'right to safety' movement. One will have to go!!!!!!!!

Since: Sep 09

Effort

#81 Jan 18, 2013
cabin wrote:
<quoted text>
Back ground checks do not work and unless people are willing to open ALL medical records for government inspection they never have a chance of working.
The right to privacy can not survive given this 'right to safety' movement. One will have to go!!!!!!!!
Agreed.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#82 Jan 18, 2013
cabin wrote:
<quoted text>
Back ground checks do not work and unless people are willing to open ALL medical records for government inspection they never have a chance of working.
The right to privacy can not survive given this 'right to safety' movement. One will have to go!!!!!!!!
Which in reality will further inhibit those who should identify those close to them who need mental help. Fear of life ruined by open records. Like kid has issues know to parents. Parents seek help. Oops, there go kids chances at jobs, college etc. There go hunting rifles, shotguns and weapons for protection. There go dad and johnny out in the woods looking for dinner and becoming better acquainted, all because it will fall under the umbrella. Look at what they have done with returning Vets. from the sandbox. Yeah, we will help you deal with the unimaginable shit you have seen and done. Yeah, and oh, by the way, you are now on terrorist watch-lists.

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#83 Jan 18, 2013
partial hoax, but it adds another layer to the discussion of how we got here.


















The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat...

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school... The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about.. And we said okay..

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address
list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

If not, then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

--












Since: Sep 09

Effort

#84 Jan 18, 2013
Took both my kids to church, sunday school, etc. Then they stopped going around 15 or so, now one who lives in SC has started going again and the other goes with his new GF whenever she goes. I think the first 14 years are the most important ones that set your foundations.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Stroudsburg Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Wilkes-Barre Veteran Affairs Medical Center Mar... (Nov '13) Dec 23 Slick Mick 5
Merry Christmas! Dec 23 Slick Mick 3
Wilkes Barre could use instream flow electric g... Dec 23 Paul Bear 2
Build a interactive science museum with grant m... Dec 23 Gabriel 1
OFFICIAL Eric Frein (white Chris Dorner) Discus... Dec 23 Scrooge McGrinch 78
where do you find PROSTITUTES IN STROUDSBURG (Aug '12) Dec 21 Butch 10
How I got the Stroudsburg posters to STFU! Dec 20 pulled pork 2
Stroudsburg Dating
Find my Match
More from around the web

Stroudsburg People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Stroudsburg News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Stroudsburg

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 5:41 am PST

NBC Sports 5:41AM
Roethlisberger's knee apparently is fine
NFL 7:21 AM
LeSean McCoy, Jeremy Maclin yet to win in playoffs
NBC Sports12:24 PM
Cam Heyward embraces leadership role with Steelers - NBC Sports
Yahoo! Sports 2:01 PM
Chiefs quarterback Smith out with lacerated spleen
NBC Sports 2:33 PM
Giants seek to end with 4-game win streak - NBC Sports