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Larry

Essex Junction, VT

#1 Jan 14, 2013
I decided to attend my first gun show this weekend over in Saratoga Springs, NY.

What I discovered was quite interesting.

First, the line was long getting in. It wrapped out the front and around the side and down the street. I waited almost an hour.

There were people exercising their Freedom of Speech at the entrance. Many were anti gun while some were there to defend them. No problems as everybody was respectful of the other.

I wanted to see more about "assault weapons" and exactly what everybody was talking about. I brought along a friend who is a recognized "expert marksman" and a range instructor as well.

He picked up a rifle which would be considered a classic hunting rifle. "This is used for small game and many call it a 'squirrel gun'". It has a scope and you load the magazine and fire it by pulling the trigger each time you fire a round. All hunting rifles work this way.

Then he picked up this scary looking thing. It was black, had a scope and a clip. "This is what everybody is upset about" he said. It had a scope, a clip with ammunition and you pull the trigger each time you want to fire a round.

Then he picked up both rifles and said "THESE ARE THE EXACT SAME THING!" BOTH are "assault rifles". But only ONE is on the list to be banned!

He went on to say the hysteria lately is clouding the minds of normally intelligent people.(And politicians like Chuck Schumer who can smell a TV camera a mile away.)

I found out there are over 300,000,000 guns in this country. But people who do not own a gun, and still believe somehow guns all by themselves kill, are getting all the face time on TV.
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#2 Jan 14, 2013
The problem is though when the media wants a "face" for pro 2nd amendment it's all to easy to find some obese goofball in overalls with a shotgun holster strapped to his hip. I was at the gun show at the Fernwood a couple of weeks ago and the clientele there wasn't exactly representative of what would be considered a responsible segment of the population. Am I being elitist? Absolutely, my image of a safe and responsible shooter is more on the lines of Hawkeye in Last of the Mohicans not a bunch diabetic 20 somethings, one step removed from their PlayStations. No doubt seeing themselves turning into men if they're shooting up some paper or styrofoam targets in their backyard. This and the T shirts indicating that they alone are the Ruby Ridge against the tyranny coming from Washington. It was depressing.
Larry

Essex Junction, VT

#3 Jan 14, 2013
I'm a target shooter. I happen to like shooting paper targets. It's a lot harder than most think. That bull is only 2 inches round. And you have to get a lot of shots in the center in order to become a good rifleman.

Oh, and by the way, did you hear about he burglars who invaded a home in Putnam County looking for the guns because that address was posted in The Journal in their list of gun owners?

They singled out homes who they knew had guns so the could steal them. But to their dismay, the guns were locked in a safe. But the dimwits thought they could break into it. One was caught and admitted that's why they chose that particular home.
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#4 Jan 14, 2013
Larry wrote:
I'm a target shooter. I happen to like shooting paper targets. It's a lot harder than most think. That bull is only 2 inches round. And you have to get a lot of shots in the center in order to become a good rifleman.
It's not so much what you shoot at. I too have only shot at a bullseye. Never even one of those deer profiles. It's probably more a comment on the sleaze that permeates what I would consider an otherwise uncompromisable position of the Right. I know several log cabin Republicans who cringe when the national media picks up tape from a Gay Pride parade that shows a lot of flying genitalia.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#5 Jan 14, 2013
Larry wrote:
Oh, and by the way, did you hear about he burglars who invaded a home in Putnam County looking for the guns because that address was posted in The Journal in their list of gun owners?
This is exactly what I thought would happen. I said it before, someone is going to come up with a Putnam County iphone app that can be used while casing a neighborhood.

And to think some people feel safer because that list was released.
Larry

Essex Junction, VT

#6 Jan 14, 2013
Another thing about that "list" is that it only covers handgun owners. Hunting rifles that we now know are indeed semi automatics are NOT on that list of homes.
Larry

Essex Junction, VT

#7 Jan 14, 2013
Just watched the news and it was reported by the FBI that there were over 2,800,000 background checks performed in December, 2012. That number was 50% higher than the previous December.

The hysteria brought about by the anti gun zealots is only causing more guns to be purchased by law abiding citizens.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#8 Jan 14, 2013
Larry wrote:
Just watched the news and it was reported by the FBI that there were over 2,800,000 background checks performed in December, 2012. That number was 50% higher than the previous December.
The hysteria brought about by the anti gun zealots is only causing more guns to be purchased by law abiding citizens.
Of course that's true but FWIW, requiring background checks for all gun purchases or transfers, whether or not from a licensed dealer, is something that should be considered.

If you (in general, not you specifically) are going to maintain that guns don't kill, then you need to maybe consider it's people that need controlling... or at least you need to control access to guns for some people, at least imhho.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#9 Jan 14, 2013
Oh, yeah. And Phil didn't die. It was Gus, his brother:(
Larry

Essex Junction, VT

#10 Jan 14, 2013
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course that's true but FWIW, requiring background checks for all gun purchases or transfers, whether or not from a licensed dealer, is something that should be considered.
If you (in general, not you specifically) are going to maintain that guns don't kill, then you need to maybe consider it's people that need controlling... or at least you need to control access to guns for some people, at least imhho.
I have yet to meet a fellow gun owner who is against background checks for guns purchased at gun shows.

But if a father is going to give his son or daughter his guns as they get old enough, I see no need for a background check on the kid.
loose stool

Brooklyn, NY

#11 Jan 14, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>

But if a father is going to give his son or daughter his guns as they get old enough, I see no need for a background check on the kid.
That doesn't make any sense.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#12 Jan 14, 2013
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
But if a father is going to give his son or daughter his guns as they get old enough, I see no need for a background check on the kid.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Many families can be in denial where their kids are concerned. The CT shooter Adam Lanza comes to mind.

There is also this case in the Allentown area which I just find outrageous. What kind of kid do you think a cop killer on death row has raised? I want to see a BG check on that kid.

http://articles.mcall.com/2012-12-19/news/mc-...
Larry

Essex Junction, VT

#13 Jan 15, 2013
A background check was performed on Lanza a week earlier when he went to purchase a gun and was denied.

His mother was going to have him committed "next week" and told him so. She was absolutely derelict by allowing him access to her guns. In my opinion she was every bit as guilty of that tragedy as he was.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#15 Jan 15, 2013
Larry wrote:
A background check was performed on Lanza a week earlier when he went to purchase a gun and was denied.
His mother was going to have him committed "next week" and told him so. She was absolutely derelict by allowing him access to her guns. In my opinion she was every bit as guilty of that tragedy as he was.
See, there you go Larry- why BG checks should be required for all transfers imho. That is not the case in PA where transfers between certain related parties are specifically exempt. The death row cop killer I mentioned may still be able to transfer his arsenal of weapons to his son if his suit is ever accepted by the courts.

And loose is right about the Lanza BG check. He refused to submit to one so his purchase was denied. Did that help in this situation? I dunno. I think a waiting period of some sort is a good idea imho though in Newtown it may have lead to the murder of his mother to access her guns. We'll never know what transpired between the two. Judging what degree of blame she shared is in God's hands now.
cabin

East Stroudsburg, PA

#16 Jan 15, 2013
Back ground checks do little or no good.

They only check what has happened and have no bearing on what may happen in the future.

In every State it is against the law to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person under any condition. Even father to son(or daughter).
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#17 Jan 15, 2013
cabin wrote:
Back ground checks do little or no good.
They only check what has happened and have no bearing on what may happen in the future.
In every State it is against the law to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person under any condition. Even father to son(or daughter).
How can you say BG checks do no good? At least a felon can't walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun just like that. Why make it easier for the criminals? If it means a little inconvenience to law abiding citizens who want to exercise their second amendment rights, then I still say so be it. At least that's what common sense would dictate to me.

And FWIW, I wouldn't be opposed to a short waiting period between purchase and possession, either, especially if it gives a hot head a few days to cool off.
cabin

East Stroudsburg, PA

#18 Jan 15, 2013
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you say BG checks do no good? At least a felon can't walk into a gun store and walk out with a gun just like that. Why make it easier for the criminals? If it means a little inconvenience to law abiding citizens who want to exercise their second amendment rights, then I still say so be it. At least that's what common sense would dictate to me.
And FWIW, I wouldn't be opposed to a short waiting period between purchase and possession, either, especially if it gives a hot head a few days to cool off.
Reality MAKES me say that. Fewer murders have been prevented by background checks than have been prevented by the use of firearms. Most if not all the 'mass murders' were commited by non criminals. As for the Conn shooter he was denied the purchase because of AGE since mental illness does not show up on any background checks and never will.

Many waiting periods can also keep victims unarmed longer.

There are no simple solutions.

The truth of the matter is there is no such thing as a 'gun crime problem'. It is all about PEOPLE, until they figure out how to better restrict people murders will always happen.

Resticting objects NEVER reduced a problem.
lotta

Tunkhannock, PA

#19 Jan 15, 2013
cabin wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality MAKES me say that. Fewer murders have been prevented by background checks than have been prevented by the use of firearms.
I'm not saying that's untrue just very surprised there might be statistics to prove that. That seems to me impossible to quantify. Can you provide some stats? Until then and maybe *even* then, I want to see BG checks.
cabin wrote:
<quoted text>Most if not all the 'mass murders' were commited by non criminals. As for the Conn shooter he was denied the purchase because of AGE since mental illness does not show up on any background checks and never will.
couple of points- although Lanza could not legally buy a gun in CT because of his age that is not my understanding of what happened. He refused the BG check thus he aborted the sale even though his age would have disqualified him ending up with the same result.

Mental illness can show up on a BG check in some cases if it involves an involuntary commitment and if a state is one of the ones that submits that info to the federal data base. Or so I have read.
cabin wrote:
<quoted text>Many waiting periods can also keep victims unarmed longer.
I'll concede that point. You are absolutely right. It was something I didn't even consider.

And of course there are no simple solutions. But getting rid of BG checks would not be among any solution I'd choose.
cabin

East Stroudsburg, PA

#20 Jan 15, 2013
lotta wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not saying that's untrue just very surprised there might be statistics to prove that. That seems to me impossible to quantify. Can you provide some stats? Until then and maybe *even* then, I want to see BG checks.
<quoted text>
couple of points- although Lanza could not legally buy a gun in CT because of his age that is not my understanding of what happened. He refused the BG check thus he aborted the sale even though his age would have disqualified him ending up with the same result.
Mental illness can show up on a BG check in some cases if it involves an involuntary commitment and if a state is one of the ones that submits that info to the federal data base. Or so I have read.
<quoted text>
I'll concede that point. You are absolutely right. It was something I didn't even consider.
And of course there are no simple solutions. But getting rid of BG checks would not be among any solution I'd choose.
The real point is that there is no data showing that back ground checks prevent crime/murders. More data has been created showing carry permits reduce crimes than data showing BC actualy do what they are supposed to do. Back ground checks are political not scientific and are not ment to stop crimes. Their reason for being is to look like something is being done.
cabin

East Stroudsburg, PA

#21 Jan 15, 2013
Just for the record The supreme court has ruled that criminals need not submit to back ground checks as they violate the criminals constitutional rights.

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